Does capitalism require resets?

:lol:

Alright, next time your missus says you're supposed to pick her up at 6, you tell her that her claim could only be non-teleological if an appropriate perspective is provided, and, further, it's established that we should recognise the validity of this perspective to the exclusion of all others.
 
Okay, so in most everyday contexts you can infer that stuff from context without it having to be made explicit, fine. But this is a pretty abstract discussion about the "needs" and "functions" of capitalism, so it's not at all obvious what we should assume or why.

I mean, why don't we say that capitalism is supposed to produce the highest profit for the monopolist, and should be organised as such? It's not obvious that this is any less valid a view than any other, just because we may not much like it.
 
I don't know anyone who infers that stuff in everyday contexts, and I don't know anyone who would interpret the statement "you were supposed to pick me up at 6!" as a teleological one.
 
If you make the claim "you are supposed to pick me up at 6", you're making a claim about a specific perspective; you're saying that X is supposed to pick you up at 6, not that everyone, everywhere, is supposed to pick you up at 6. But to say that capitalism is "supposed" to be X lacks any implication of perspective, so on face value it's a claim that this purpose inheres not in any human perspective but in capitalism itself. That's teleological.
 
Free-market-capitalism is fairly straight-forward. The strong shall flourish and the weak perish. Relatively speaking.
So who are the strong? Many things can make you stronger. Education, but more essentially, approved and accepted qualification. Skills of various kinds. Networking.
But what has you really on the strong side is money. Money can get you anything. Most of all - more money.
But oh no who would have thought that - the gap between rich and poor is growing. S-h-o-c-k-i-n-g.
After all, the market is free, so it is fair, so it is just, so everyone can succeed or fail and that means social mobility and that means a just distribution of wealth.
O wait, this is all BS.

A growing gap between the rich and poor seems to be wired directly into what the free capitalistic market is - or not?
So what do we do about it? We can soften the trend, but we don't seem to be able to actually stop it. And while in relative terms the majority has less and the minority more, debt is pilling up and debt creating money demands to be served.

Is this system in dire need of periodic resets? Is it bound to spiral out of control? Am I a dirty communist?

Every singe aspect of the economic stress we are witnessing today can be attributed to two things.

1. The trend to global trade and global capitalism.
2. The reflexive and spasmodic attempts of our political system to counter the negative effects of the consequence of the trends.

You can simplify the first to the analogy of a see saw. First with a fixed inoperative fulcum and then with one that moves more and more freely. The inbalance of living standards and wages have exerted ever greater pressure to move the West's (and Japans) indexes downward as the developing world has moved upwards. It was inevitable that living standards in the West would decline relative to the rest of the world and the inverse is true even though it was and is equally true that world standards float upward in toto.

The problem is that it manifested more quickly than our politics could adjust and frankly more quickly than the mores of our society could absorb.

Just to pick a random example, we still labor under the agricultural structure for education of a long absent world. In order to bring the West into the new reality we must embrace a new dynamic educational system that brings kids into the workplace at age 16 while providing lifetime educational advancement. This is just one aspect of necessary change.

We must also accept the new model of productivity that is techno-prodo and with that embrace the redistribution of productivity not through the antiquated views of modern liberalism that seek to redirect wealth to the unproductive and in effect subsidizes sloth and apathy but move to redistribution in and to the full range of the productive including women that produce and nuture a replacement population in the domestic role.

This, a national profit sharing program, in which those who work are rewarded and those who do not are not is the only possible method by which we can restore
an egalitarian prosperity.

The see-saw will trend to a state of equilibrium in any case. But the cost of that global creative destruction has been breathtaking so far and is by no means over.
 
@TF: Again, when someone says "supposed to", they might be making a teleological assertion (e.g. "a pen is supposed to write"), or it could be saying something about what they expect/want/require to be the case (e.g. "a car is supposed to have doors", "you were supposed to pick me up at 6"). I think it's clear that Davo isn't saying anything about the goals of capitalism or its purpose, but rather about what he expects the result to look like. When I bake a cake, and it inevitably turns out badly, I might say, "hmm, I don't think it's supposed to look like that". When I say this, it might sound linguistically like I am saying something teleological about the purpose of the cake, but I'm not -- I'm simply saying that I expected the cake to look differently. If it looks so vastly different to what I expect, I might even say that it is not, in fact, a cake, but something else (like an omelette, knowing my cooking ability). Davo is saying that he expects capitalism to look like <this>, i.e. he expects it to have competition. If it doesn't, then he can't call it capitalism, he has to call it something else. When you call his argument teleological, you're equivocating on the word "supposed to". He's not making a teleological statement about capitalism's purpose, he's just describing what he expects from a capitalist system, or put another way, what is required of a system for it to be called capitalist.
 
I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make Traitorfish.

Edit: Above post by Mise sums it up pretty well.
 
Then it would be equally true to say that "capitalism is supposed to be a monopoly", because that's what the monopolist thinks capitalism should look like, and the result he expects to see from his activities. So the original claim is still a bit of a strange one to make.
 
Then it would be equally true to say that "capitalism is supposed to be a monopoly", because that's what the monopolist thinks capitalism should look like, and the result he expects to see from his activities. So the original claim is still a bit of a strange one to make.
As Mise said: 'Davo is saying that he expects capitalism to look like <this>, i.e. he expects it to have competition. If it doesn't, then he can't call it capitalism, he has to call it something else.'

So if Capitalism left unstricted results in no more competition, because 'x' company won, then it's no longer capitalism.

Capitalism is the method, it is not the result.
 
Capitalism is a "method"? :confused:
Of course. What else do you think it is?

I'll just use wiki and google to explain, easier that way.

From wiki: Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the production of goods or services for profit

From google:
Method
A particular procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one.
Orderliness of thought or behavior; systematic planning or action: "combination of knowledge and method".
 
Those definitions don't support your position.
How so?

Capitalism is an economic system. To borrow from wiki again, an economic system is a system of producing, distributing and consuming goods and services. Which is a method.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...1.0.51.193.9.9.0.les;..0.0...1c.1.KzzErjKpwlw

meth·od
/&#712;meTH&#601;d/
Noun
A particular procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one.
Orderliness of thought or behavior; systematic planning or action: "combination of knowledge and method".
Synonyms
way - system - mode - process - manner - procedure
Bolded for emphasis.
 
Of course. What else do you think it is?

I'll just use wiki and google to explain, easier that way.

From wiki: Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the production of goods or services for profit

From google:
Method
A particular procedure for accomplishing or approaching something, esp. a systematic or established one.
Orderliness of thought or behavior; systematic planning or action: "combination of knowledge and method".
How can a generalised socioecenomic system be a "method"? To say that it's a "method" implies that its something applied subjectively, but an economic system is something that exists objectively, beyond any one individual or their actions.
 
How can a generalised system be a "method"? To say that it's a "method" implies that its something applied subjectively, but an economic system is something that exists objectively, beyond any one individual or their actions.
Oh c'mon, I just posted the fact that the word system is a Synonym for the word method.
 
Only for certain usages of the word "system". Like, "I have a poker-system", not "the British rail system". It means that a given method is systematic, not that anything systematic must be a method.
 
Is this system in dire need of periodic resets?

Sounds like a rethorical question to me. EVERYTHING in nature require periodic reset. And even if it doesn't require it, it still resets.
 
Only for certain usages of the word "system". Like, "I have a poker-system", not "the British rail system". It means that a given method is systematic, not that anything systematic must be a method.
Capitalism is an economic system, method, whatever friggin word you choose to use, it's not a result.

Happy now?
 
I don't disagree that capitalism is an ongoing process rather than a result of any process, if that's what you're trying to get at. But what does that have to do with the existence or non-existence of competition? The existence or non-existence of competition is sectional, not general, so how can it be said to determine the character of a generalised economic system?
 
I don't disagree that capitalism is an ongoing process rather than a result of any process, if that's what you're trying to get at.
Ok.

But what does that have to do with the existence or non-existence of competition? The existence or non-existence of competition is sectional, not general, so how can it be said to determine the character of a generalised economic system?
Capitalism is by defintion about competition. Because Capitalism is to sell goods and services for profit, and as such such different companies/individuals compete with each other for that profit. Essentially what I am am saying is that competitive markets are an essential part of Capitalism.

My view is that if one party defeats all of it's competition and dominates the market, then it is longer really Capitalism because there is no competition.

I then view this as bad because it takes away consumer choice and incentives to improve products and leads to unfavourable prices for the consumer. Hence I favour regulation to prevent this.
 
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