Does Race exist?

It may not be scientifically correct but it sure is handy in many instances:
I don't see any racism in calling him white.

You really have an unbelievably unique thinking pattern, when you made a thread regarding the attacks on Christian in Srilanka, you are more concern about the victim and persistently critical regarding the religious back-ground of the shooter, to further scrutinized the whole belief system and the whole believer.

However in this unique instance, when the Christian African American church suffered the same incidence, and nine Christian were killed, instead consistently concern with the victim, you are more critical on how the shooter is depicted of being white (which perhaps disturbs your "racial group"), while rest assured it will not scrutinized the whole white population like how the same incident might put the whole Muslim and Islam in a bad light. In fact this article just strengthen the argument that racialization of skin color might not be a good idea.
 
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Maybe I am not making myself clear.

In Sri Lanka I condemned the Islamists, in Charleston I condemned the White racist and didn't see using the 'white' label as racist.
 
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You really have an unbelievably unique thinking pattern, when you made a thread regarding the attacks on Christian in Srilanka, you are more concern about the victim and persistently critical regarding the religious back-ground of the shooter, to further scrutinized the whole belief system and the whole believer.

However in this unique instance, when the Christian African American church suffered the same incidence, and nine Christian were killed, instead consistently concern with the victim, you are more critical on how the shooter is depicted of being white (which perhaps disturbs your "racial group"), while rest assured it will not scrutinized the whole white population like how the same incident might put the whole Muslim and Islam in a bad light. In fact this article just strengthen the argument that racialization of skin color might not be a good idea.

For many it does put all white people in a bad light, especially whne they get up tight about pointing out that it was an explicit right wing, white supremacist attack.
 
.... imagine that you are a teacher, what good can it bring if you classify the students between the blue eyes and the brown eyes, then you try to classify further to know which group get the higher average mark.

You may argue there are no discrimination within the classification process but the clear statement already made that one group born to have higher average intelligent than the other group. People playing with such concept so much and they mostly use statistic to backed up their claim, check up physiognomy.
If i pointed out those "facts", without further analysis, i would consider myself a bad teacher, but i would also consider myself a bad teacher if i dismissed them. In addition, even if there are minor statistical variations in IQ among population subsets, there are still quite a few assumptions, generalizations, subconscious inferences and/or intellectual wackeries to get to inferior and subhuman.
.....Take for instance the observation that you have a blue eyes is not the problem, but it is to classify you inside "the blue eyes people" category, then to further build up some collective personality based on that variable, for instance what is the average income of "the blue eyes" in comparison with "the green eyes"? How prone "the blue eyes" to commit crimes in comparison to "the green eyes"? These information not without impact, it will be used to crafted the collective personality for instance "the blue eyes are mostly less successful and more prone to crime in comparison to the green eyes".
Sound like an act of individual and collective narcissism
.It is not the fact of its primordial traits of human that makes it dreadful, but how it corrupts the society with the false negative alarm that makes it bad. It's your old spyware system that delivered you a tons of false negative, resulting you to deletes so many important data in your computer.
So what to do with these primordial traits of humans...it's not that easy to remove these old programs, just telling someone you are wrong generally does not work and worse, may produce a defensive response that only reinforces the [narcissistic] trait
i can recognized your unique physical attribute without lumping you in a box of collective physical category that I precept to be your group, then subconsciously or consciously start to related you with certain subset group personality that already crafted within that category.
seems you are still equating "race" to "racism" and that this is the solution to the problem, that is, in any case where there may be a different attribute related to "race", we dismiss it as racism....isn't that a generalization as well? Also, are we making decisions to dismiss concepts rather than to further discuss them based on good and bad (?some "universal/objective/just" morality)?
 
Take for instance the observation that you have a blue eyes is not the problem, but it is to classify you inside "the blue eyes people" category, then to further build up some collective personality based on that variable
Classifying people on "blue-eyed" and "green-eyed" is not different from classifying them on Brits and Germans, basing on their appearance and spoken language.
The problematic part is not classification itself, but the "collective personality" assigned to group of people and prejudice against them.
 
Surroundings can certainly be toxic
 
if there are minor statistical variations in IQ among population subsets, there are still quite a few assumptions, generalizations, subconscious inferences and/or intellectual wackeries to get to inferior and subhuman

My intention is not to claimed the IQ variation will drag down to a discrimination level of dehumanizing other group. But my base argument is that such grouping will lead to assigning unique individual to a collective personality/quality that lead to generalization. The fact that the green eyes believe themselves to be more intelligent than the blue eyes population by referencing to the statistical result, this leads to the believe that this quality are inherited quality for being blue eyes or green eyes. This kind of fallacious generalization can be anytime mislead to racism.

Sound like an act of individual and collective narcissism

Isn't that the aspect of racism? Actually I gives this example from this famous experiment that demonstrates how easily it is to assigned "collective personality" to any kind of random physical grouping, this experiment might demonstrate the extreme case. We just creating a language here, where being a brown eyes means certain subset of personalities, while the blue eyes means the other subset of personalities. And race classification not at all absent from the assumed generalization. When we heard the words Irish, African, Asian, we somewhat unconsciously assumed more than just physical differences.


So what to do with these primordial traits of humans...it's not that easy to remove these old programs, just telling someone you are wrong generally does not work and worse, may produce a defensive response that only reinforces the [narcissistic] trait

Actually many form of past discrimination toward certain group of people are somewhat relieved by doing exactly that, when competent institution (academic institution for instance) makes a strong campaign that negates racial classification this surely will affect the public opinion that later on will push the government.

seems you are still equating "race" to "racism" and that this is the solution to the problem, that is, in any case where there may be a different attribute related to "race", we dismiss it as racism....isn't that a generalization as well? Also, are we making decisions to dismiss concepts rather than to further discuss them based on good and bad (?some "universal/objective/just" morality)?

Well this is why I bring up the classification based on eyes color as an example, we can assigned any socio-cultural attribute to unlimited number of possible classification, but such assignment are baseless and uncorrelated.

For instance to think that the Asian did well in Math is definitely not a racism, but it tell us two thing, first such conclusion is false positive, the second is, racism used the very same generalization pattern, but instead they use it to assigned negative attribute to the targeted group, and use the generalization to justify their discrimination and injustice treatment to the targeted group.

Classifying people on "blue-eyed" and "green-eyed" is not different from classifying them on Brits and Germans, basing on their appearance and spoken language.
The problematic part is not classification itself, but the "collective personality" assigned to group of people and prejudice against them.

Halfly agree Red Elk, assigning collective personality to racial classification is a problem, but classifying people based on race in socio-cultural level will eventually leads to that.
 
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To bring it back to the thread title though - do different eye colours exist?
 
Halfly agree Red Elk, assigning collective personality to racial classification is a problem, but classifying people based on race in socio-cultural level will eventually leads to that.
What's so special about race, comparing to eye or hair color?
 
In WWII the army and navy noticed that their pilots who achieved ace status (5 kills) were blue-eyed quite disproportionately. Standardized tests in the '50s routinely asked eye-color
 
What's so special about race, comparing to eye or hair color?

This is my whole point, we don't group people socio-culturally by their hair or eyes color. That's one, the second, race itself as a observable attribute is false, just recently during the Jakarta riot there was a social media uproar because they claimed there were Chinese paramilitary drafted and abusing the demonstrator, the irony is, they are actually Indonesian from the Sulawesi island, in particular Manado, who happened to have small eyes. This thing is stupid down to the core.
 
In WWII the army and navy noticed that their pilots who achieved ace status (5 kills) were blue-eyed quite disproportionately. Standardized tests in the '50s routinely asked eye-color

We leave that as our past stupidity, can we do the same for race category?
 
This is my whole point, we don't group people socio-culturally by their hair or eyes color.
I do. I find brunette girls more attractive than blonde ones.

That's one, the second, race itself as a observable attribute is false
Arnold Schwarzenegger is white and Will Smith is black. They will confirm it, if asked.
This is their real objectively existing trait. Socially constructed in the same sense as hair color, but also written in their DNA.
 
I do. I find brunette girls more attractive than blonde ones.

That's not by definition you group them socio-culturally, you notice their face differences and have certain physical preference doesn't mean vis-a-vis you made some socio-cultural group based on it. Naskra giving a good example for sociocultural grouping based on eyes color, it's when you actually classify and grouped individual based on shared physiology similarity.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is white and Will Smith is black.

If you, like many other people, dumb the race classification further down by skin color, I really don't know what to say
 
I do. I find brunette girls more attractive than blonde ones.


Arnold Schwarzenegger is white and Will Smith is black. They will confirm it, if asked.
This is their real objectively existing trait. Socially constructed in the same sense as hair color, but also written in their DNA.

That Arnold and Will identify with the dominant social constructs is meaningless.
 
good joke I'm laughing at it, but dang it's such an awful strawman!

Not only is it not an awful strawman, it's not a strawman. It's a fairly apt analogy really. Just as discussing the dangers of grouping people by eye colour, and falsely attributing characteristics to them based on that grouping, has nothing to do with the existence of eye colour itself, so [sentence completion left as an exercise for the reader]. Same thing with the questions asked earlier on in the thread, such as "what useful societal function does grouping people by eye colour serve?".
 
That's not by definition you group them socio-culturally, you notice their face differences and have certain physical preference doesn't mean vis-a-vis you made some socio-cultural group based on it.
So, again, what's special about race? Why can't I similarly notice the difference between Arnold-like and Will-like people, without making socio-cultural groups based on it?

If you, like many other people, dumb the race classification further down by skin color, I really don't know what to say
You said race as observable attribute doesn't exist, I gave obvious counter-example. Two people who clearly belong to different races.
 
So, again, what's special about race? Why can't I similarly notice the difference between Arnold-like and Will-like people, without making socio-cultural groups based on it?


You said race as observable attribute doesn't exist, I gave obvious counter-example. Two people who clearly belong to different races.

Not really. 2 people with different skin colour.
 
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