Does Race exist?

[Zack]

I read the wikipedia article on humans last week, so I'm basically an expert.

Humans of the same sex are 99.9% genetically identical. There is extremely little variation between human geographical populations, and most of the variation that does occur is at the personal level within local areas, and not between populations.[151][182][183] Of the 0.1% of human genetic differentiation, 85% exists within any randomly chosen local population, be they Italians, Koreans, or Kurds. Two randomly chosen Koreans may be genetically as different as a Korean and an Italian. Any ethnic group contains 85% of the human genetic diversity of the world. Genetic data shows that no matter how population groups are defined, two people from the same population group are about as different from each other as two people from any two different population groups.[151][184][185][186]

Found this paragraph really interesting. I'm also having a hard time reconciling how it could be true? Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread.

 

[red_elk]

Not really. 2 people with different skin colour.

Can't argue with that, their skin color is indeed different.
It doesn't make me wrong about their races though.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Can't argue with that, their skin color is indeed different.
It doesn't make me wrong about their races though.

But as Zack pointed out in the post above genetic variation is pretty much irrelevant to discussions about race.

 

[red_elk]

But as Zack pointed out in the post above genetic variation is pretty much irrelevant to discussions about race.

Genetic variations are also (almost) irrelevant to hair, eye colors and ethnicities. We still happily use these categories.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Genetic variations are also (almost) irrelevant to hair, eye colors and ethnicities. We still happily use these categories.

I'm sorry, I can't recall the cases where hair or eye colour have effected government policy.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/y...=03d2904e4e1e411f03221a93640f1922&action=view

 

[Berzerker]

winter is coming

 

[H4run]

These! exactly what I keep reiterating!

Not really. 2 people with different skin colour.

I'm sorry, I can't recall the cases where hair or eye colour have effected government policy.

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/y...=03d2904e4e1e411f03221a93640f1922&action=view

 

[astrallite]

Not only that but it's fluid; even the founding fathers of America couldn’t Agree on whether the Germans, French etc were white

Mostly had to do with the fact that they decided to arbitrarily define white as being "Anglo Saxon"

 

[red_elk]

I'm sorry, I can't recall the cases where hair or eye colour have effected government policy.

Well, Naskra gave example when they did, on the previous page. Eye color was part of pilots test.
I mean, what's the point in denying that races exist? It won't help in fighting against racism, if anything it will only make affirmative action impossible. You can't impose racial quotas in parliament or anywhere if race officially is not a thing. It's as nonsensical as denying that genders exist, in attempt to reduce sexism.

You can explain to people that all humans are equal. But you can't explain that they are identical, people see that they are not with their own eyes. Blue or green

 

[Senethro]

Well, Naskra gave example when they did, on the previous page. Eye color was part of pilots test.
I mean, what's the point in denying that races exist? It won't help in fighting against racism, if anything it will only make affirmative action impossible. You can't impose racial quotas in parliament or anywhere if race officially is not a thing. It's as nonsensical as denying that genders exist, in attempt to reduce sexism.

You can explain to people that all humans are equal. But you can't explain that they are identical, people see that they are not with their own eyes. Blue or green

Nah. Races only exist as a social construct.

Even blue and green are social constructs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue–green_distinction_in_language#Japanese

Just because you've been taught to look at a person and see their race, that does not mean that race exists independently of human thought.

You gotta disbelieve your eyes on this one.

 

[Naskra]

The next winner of the Olympic 100m dash will be a man of West African ancestry.
The marathon will be won by a guy from East Africa.
The Women's 100m will be won by a white guy.

Guess which is the social construct.

 

[Zack]

My eyes aren't quite blue or green, but somewhere in between. My hair is straight, unless it gets too long and starts to curl at the ends. Why is Obama the first black president and not the 44th white one? Does a white guy with a dark tan suddenly become another race?

People can't be easily sorted into those categories. They're heuristics.

 

[Senethro]

The next winner of the Olympic 100m dash will be a man of West African ancestry.
The marathon will be won by a guy from East Africa.

And yet people still working with the colonial race paradigm will claim both are "black" and somehow have an essence in common with each other that they don't share with other races. Ridiculous pseudoscientific thinking.

And I'm ignoring your obvious derail bait.

 

[red_elk]

Nah. Races only exist as a social construct.

Ethnicities and cultures also exist as social constructs. Who cares?
Nobody claims they should be abolished. Why races should be different?

 

[Naskra]

both are "black" and somehow have an essence in common with each other

No. Speed and endurance are different things, not a common essence.x

 

[Senethro]

Ethnicities and cultures also exist as social constructs. Who cares?
Nobody claims they should be abolished. Why races should be different?

Because the concept of race has no use except performing racism. Thats what it was invented for.

So a better question is why maintain it - which you never answer.

 

[Senethro]

No. Speed and endurance are different things, not a common essence.x

Quite so! Thank you for agreeing with me that the racial category black is ridiculous! Those who maintain it exists must truly be foolish.

 

[red_elk]

Because the concept of race has no use except performing racism. Thats what it was invented for.

I gave several examples of fair usage. Off the top of my head - medical articles, visual description of a person, affirmative action.

So a better question is why maintain it - which you never answer.

Just like distinction between blue and green eyes, it doesn't require any "maintenance".

 

[H4run]

Quite so! Thank you for agreeing with me that the racial category black is ridiculous!

His previous example about the inclusion of eyes color in pilot standardization test during WW II, which referenced heavily from how people wrongly assumed that those with blue eyes color get better chance to be a better pilot than the other eyes color pretty much demonstrate the very fallacy that can come out from the physical classification, it's root from the false reality that statistic can gives. I don't understand why he is debating this while he seems very aware of the ridiculousness of the subject.

In WWII the army and navy noticed that their pilots who achieved ace status (5 kills) were blue-eyed quite disproportionately. Standardized tests in the '50s routinely asked eye-color

 

[Senethro]

I gave several examples of fair usage. Off the top of my head - medical articles, visual description of a person, affirmative action.

Ethnicity would be more useful for medical articles, racial terms are actually a really bad way to visually describe someone, and affirmative action is a temporary exercise in error checking that will be phased out when it is not needed (the sooner the better). Affirmative action style interventions are correction for past use of racial caste systems, not an end in themselves.

Just like distinction between blue and green eyes, it doesn't require any "maintenance".

Racists disagree with you and are trying very hard to maintain that the categories exist and have supposed essences associated with them, and that we should make decisions using these categories.

Racism isn't inevitable - its a learned/taught behaviour. It will only remain in usage if maintained by its adherents.