Pyramids looks a good build with stone and quite a lot of production-poor, food-rich cities circled around the capital, pretty much as signed on the pic above. Specialsts, yum yum. Shame Thebes wasn't 1W to get pig too - what on earth was the start algorithm thinking there?
Dr kossin #1
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
I have to agree with MS here. Warchariots asap. Thats the main reason you play the Egptians.HA only provides 1 more strength and war chariots will beat axemen easily.
You are planning to settle a city you can back fill. I thought you always talked about blocking cities on my game and back filling!! I would grab horse city next and pump out units!
From my experience Justin will rex madly! If theres one gold there will be 2-3 more and prolly in Justin BFC. Justin can do crazy liberalism dates. Justin's holy city will only speed his Lib date up. His city will make a great wall street city too just with the shrine. If he hasnt built the shrine your UB will make that easy to do! You could try a priest only city for fun! become a religious warlord.
You have a horse resource nearby. When is your capitals next border pop? Lets grab the horse, attack and chop out war chariots and start this religious crusade. kapish!!!
Yea, it looks the second worker was a mistake. I don't mind making mistakes too much as this is the way I find I learn best. Next time I get faced with this situation I will remember the mistake and likely not do it again. As to why I play the rounds fast... well I'm impatient and I find there are enough games already that allow weeks of discussion 
I really don't know what I was smoking when I thought of the pig/crabs city. That's 4 wasted worker turns right there.
I'm guessing tomorrow's round will feature some scouting around Justinian as well as the west.
I like Kadazzle's idea of the second city. Getting a third settler out will be fast for the horses and with 2 workers already it should be hooked up in a reasonable amount of time.
The Pyramids look like a good bet unless I need to WC rush or if a lot of land is available to grab to the west. Or other ideas!
I really don't know what I was smoking when I thought of the pig/crabs city. That's 4 wasted worker turns right there.
I'm guessing tomorrow's round will feature some scouting around Justinian as well as the west.
I like Kadazzle's idea of the second city. Getting a third settler out will be fast for the horses and with 2 workers already it should be hooked up in a reasonable amount of time.
The Pyramids look like a good bet unless I need to WC rush or if a lot of land is available to grab to the west. Or other ideas!
Kadazzle
Emperor
Sorry if that sounded harsh - I wasn't intending to be that way. If I were you, I'd continue to explore north with your warrior, and explore Justin's borders as soon as possible.
What I'd personally do given the situation you're in, regarding city placement and rushing possibilities, is settle on the Silk as a second city, then the Wine/Clam site as a third, and the Horse site as a fourth. You can get out the first settler before 2200BC, second before 1800BC and third before 1600BC, meaning you have more than enough time to hit up Writing and the Mids. Once you have all those cities down (and the mids), I'd tech through to Horseback Riding and attack Justin using HA's, then broker peace for techs, and then tech up Aesthetics line and settle the Pig/Crab site as a GP farm (before you get Literature, but try and get the National Epic as soon as possible). With that, you either have 5 cities, with room for one more to the west (which can be settled very late, once your economy recovers, as you only need it for OxUnit and GlobeTheatre, but keep in mind if you have sea food there it can be powerful with Representation), but then again you could have more cities depending on your war with Justin.
Your next tech path should go Mytiscism -> Pottery -> Writing -> Horseback Riding, then turn off research until you're prepared for war. Depending on how the war goes, either go up the CoL or Currency route, or if you're not that effected by the economy, hit up the Aest line.
That's personally what I'd do in this situation, as I do prefer *safer* wars and a quick early BPT rate. I'm not saying it is the best way, just the way I would do it
What I'd personally do given the situation you're in, regarding city placement and rushing possibilities, is settle on the Silk as a second city, then the Wine/Clam site as a third, and the Horse site as a fourth. You can get out the first settler before 2200BC, second before 1800BC and third before 1600BC, meaning you have more than enough time to hit up Writing and the Mids. Once you have all those cities down (and the mids), I'd tech through to Horseback Riding and attack Justin using HA's, then broker peace for techs, and then tech up Aesthetics line and settle the Pig/Crab site as a GP farm (before you get Literature, but try and get the National Epic as soon as possible). With that, you either have 5 cities, with room for one more to the west (which can be settled very late, once your economy recovers, as you only need it for OxUnit and GlobeTheatre, but keep in mind if you have sea food there it can be powerful with Representation), but then again you could have more cities depending on your war with Justin.
Your next tech path should go Mytiscism -> Pottery -> Writing -> Horseback Riding, then turn off research until you're prepared for war. Depending on how the war goes, either go up the CoL or Currency route, or if you're not that effected by the economy, hit up the Aest line.
That's personally what I'd do in this situation, as I do prefer *safer* wars and a quick early BPT rate. I'm not saying it is the best way, just the way I would do it
Kadazzle
Emperor
I forgot to mention that considering all land except for the capital land is crap, I would consider going up the CoL line and getting Civil Service to unlock Bureau, you can have a very strong SSE here if you nab Mids and get six cities,
whats a navy
Prince
I vote religious economy with that nice holy city Justinian built for you as the base. Take it with the chariots of war or Justinian will become to powerful to take done with his rexing and holy city. Mids might be possibility if its a slow date though so you might get both. Religious economy with this UB is beast though and with mids (or rep i should say) will make this game a joke.
Yea, it looks the second worker was a mistake. I don't mind making mistakes too much as this is the way I find I learn best. Next time I get faced with this situation I will remember the mistake and likely not do it again. As to why I play the rounds fast... well I'm impatient and I find there are enough games already that allow weeks of discussion
I really don't know what I was smoking when I thought of the pig/crabs city. That's 4 wasted worker turns right there.
I'm guessing tomorrow's round will feature some scouting around Justinian as well as the west.
I like Kadazzle's idea of the second city. Getting a third settler out will be fast for the horses and with 2 workers already it should be hooked up in a reasonable amount of time.
The Pyramids look like a good bet unless I need to WC rush or if a lot of land is available to grab to the west. Or other ideas!
I am against mids as you dont learn games by building mids each time with stone. It would open up a GE though.
I might continue from your first save and do a WC rush for fun.
You can always whip a settler! asap. The gold city will help push early science. No idea why you went for pig/crab city so early!
You are like me you just want to play out the game.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
I play these things in one sitting. Are you cool with me partitioning the shadow in spoilers (1 post) with clearly marked dates or would you prefer I not shadow?
@Kadazzle
Oh, it didn't sound harsh at all. I welcome your advice. Remember that for a HA rush I also have to slip in Hunting>archery though. If I don't rush, yea the land will be crap unless I get the Pyramids. I know the power of HA rush but since production won't be great with this land I'm debating if a WC rush would not be more efficient.
6 str vs 5 str
20% innate retreat vs 10%
both are immune to first strikes
WC has a 100% bonus vs Axemen
50
vs 30
HAs will have 2 promotions thanks to Stables
@whats a navy
Of course if Justinian is out of the way we'll have a strong shrine we can spread (and an easy GProphet to build it unless Justinian does it). Saladin will also spread his religion quite a bit and probably before me (harder to spread religion). We'll have to see if there are more AIs on the continent to see how religion will work. Brennus and Saladin tend to be religious nuts but also don't attack at Pleased. I would rather run scientists first with the Pyramids though. Moreover since we're Spiritual, Caste System makes Scientists even more attractive.
@Gumbolt
Well, play the map I say! If it calls for a rush and then the Pyramids, I'll go for it. Feel free to play from there or even the 4000BC save.
@TMIT
I would personally not look at spoilers, the only thing I don't want is people using those spoilers to suggest an approach for me. I suppose I'll trust the Forums on this one, in any case it shouldn't make any difference. Feel free to shadow (and provide advice!).
Oh, it didn't sound harsh at all. I welcome your advice. Remember that for a HA rush I also have to slip in Hunting>archery though. If I don't rush, yea the land will be crap unless I get the Pyramids. I know the power of HA rush but since production won't be great with this land I'm debating if a WC rush would not be more efficient.
6 str vs 5 str
20% innate retreat vs 10%
both are immune to first strikes
WC has a 100% bonus vs Axemen
50
vs 30 HAs will have 2 promotions thanks to Stables
@whats a navy
Of course if Justinian is out of the way we'll have a strong shrine we can spread (and an easy GProphet to build it unless Justinian does it). Saladin will also spread his religion quite a bit and probably before me (harder to spread religion). We'll have to see if there are more AIs on the continent to see how religion will work. Brennus and Saladin tend to be religious nuts but also don't attack at Pleased. I would rather run scientists first with the Pyramids though. Moreover since we're Spiritual, Caste System makes Scientists even more attractive.
@Gumbolt
Well, play the map I say! If it calls for a rush and then the Pyramids, I'll go for it. Feel free to play from there or even the 4000BC save.
@TMIT
I would personally not look at spoilers, the only thing I don't want is people using those spoilers to suggest an approach for me. I suppose I'll trust the Forums on this one, in any case it shouldn't make any difference. Feel free to shadow (and provide advice!).
learner gamer
King
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2009
- Messages
- 657
For the record, I only play monarch, so please feel free to take my advice with (more than) a pinch of salt. 
Re: your city location, I agree with madscientist, I’d be settling the horses next for the WCs...after all, you need to pasture and connect them to the capital before you’ve access to them there. Looking at your save, the blue circle 1N of horses is the best long term site (can irrigate through Memphis’ corn if wanted), although it lacks hills. 1S as you have it, is better short term.
IMHO, the other spot I’d look at is 1NE of the gold (you have 1NW in the desert)....in return for losing one forested plain and silk (which can be taken with another city), you (i) get some grassland hills (can windmill and work), (ii) get defensive bonuses from settling on a hill (iii) avoid the 25% infrastructure penalty that a desert city incurs. In either case, I’d be looking to settle near the gold, not only for the commerce, but the one extra happy (meaning an extra tile worked per city or more ability to whip and deal with the weariness.)
After that, it depends on what your scouting reveals IMHO. Discovering good land means another settler, not doing so means war. If the latter, then, with so much of the surrounding land lacking food, you have to ask: how much can your 2nd & 3rd cities contribute to a war effort? Since, IMHO, most of your army production will have to come from your capital, I’d be inclined to turn the surrounding forests into WCs rather than a wonder. (BTW, if you need convincing re: the merits of massing WCs given their 30H base cost vs 50H for HAs, have a look at Sis’ ALC as Hatty.) This, in turn, suggests that, after fishing (for the WB) and masonry, writing (maybe via pottery) is the way to go.
Look forward to seeing how you go.
Re: your city location, I agree with madscientist, I’d be settling the horses next for the WCs...after all, you need to pasture and connect them to the capital before you’ve access to them there. Looking at your save, the blue circle 1N of horses is the best long term site (can irrigate through Memphis’ corn if wanted), although it lacks hills. 1S as you have it, is better short term.
IMHO, the other spot I’d look at is 1NE of the gold (you have 1NW in the desert)....in return for losing one forested plain and silk (which can be taken with another city), you (i) get some grassland hills (can windmill and work), (ii) get defensive bonuses from settling on a hill (iii) avoid the 25% infrastructure penalty that a desert city incurs. In either case, I’d be looking to settle near the gold, not only for the commerce, but the one extra happy (meaning an extra tile worked per city or more ability to whip and deal with the weariness.)
After that, it depends on what your scouting reveals IMHO. Discovering good land means another settler, not doing so means war. If the latter, then, with so much of the surrounding land lacking food, you have to ask: how much can your 2nd & 3rd cities contribute to a war effort? Since, IMHO, most of your army production will have to come from your capital, I’d be inclined to turn the surrounding forests into WCs rather than a wonder. (BTW, if you need convincing re: the merits of massing WCs given their 30H base cost vs 50H for HAs, have a look at Sis’ ALC as Hatty.) This, in turn, suggests that, after fishing (for the WB) and masonry, writing (maybe via pottery) is the way to go.
Look forward to seeing how you go.
@learner gamer
I think you are mistaken. There are no production bonus/penalties depending on the tile on which you settle. The only thing that changes is that tile's yield. You can get 1 extra
(settle on a grassland with a food resource), 1 (plains hill or plains with a hammer resource)~2 (plains hill with hammer resource) extra and 1~2 (if Financial) extra 
I remember Sisiutil's Hatty ALC, I was lurking back then While he used them quite well, that was back in Vanilla and on Prince. It still works in BtS/Immortal (I've run a few tests to see) but I may not be able to finish off Justinian in one wave. This would be the advantage of going HAs, I could broker for peace techs. The future will tell...
I might do a mini-round to see if there's any land to the west, but I still have to decide between the gold or horse city.
I think you are mistaken. There are no production bonus/penalties depending on the tile on which you settle. The only thing that changes is that tile's yield. You can get 1 extra
(settle on a grassland with a food resource), 1 (plains hill or plains with a hammer resource)~2 (plains hill with hammer resource) extra and 1~2 (if Financial) extra I remember Sisiutil's Hatty ALC, I was lurking back then
While he used them quite well, that was back in Vanilla and on Prince. It still works in BtS/Immortal (I've run a few tests to see) but I may not be able to finish off Justinian in one wave. This would be the advantage of going HAs, I could broker for peace techs. The future will tell...I might do a mini-round to see if there's any land to the west, but I still have to decide between the gold or horse city.
dualmaster
Emperor
Personally I wouldn't hesitate for a second to rush Justinian. War chariots are just too powerful to pass up. Look to pillage any copper/iron early to prevent the guys with nasty pointy sticks - beyond that you should be able to roll him quickly. Get horses up with second city and then chop everything in sight.
learner gamer
King
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2009
- Messages
- 657
Apologies, what was I smoking when I typed that?
Re yield: indeed, what I meant to say is that the hill would become a 2F 1H 1C tile when settled instead of 1H at the mo. Wouldn't believe English is my first language would you.
To avoid confusion, I've deleted the reference to bonuses in the edit.Udey1
Prince
(from a phone, sorry for typos)
my 2 cents. Totally agree with playing the map and going for mids with chops. I totally disagree with gumbolt. Knowing what strategy is how you learn, building mids is a crutch for some players but to ignore it here is to discard a useful tool. Also agree that you should rush, you will stagnate in this mediocre land if you don't, even with a mids specialist setup, however I also disagree with going for horse archers. I cannot fathom why to research an expensive tech when you have 5 strength chariots as your uu... 1 more strength for a (more expensive?) unit and a huge delay? Not in my book.
my 2 cents. Totally agree with playing the map and going for mids with chops. I totally disagree with gumbolt. Knowing what strategy is how you learn, building mids is a crutch for some players but to ignore it here is to discard a useful tool. Also agree that you should rush, you will stagnate in this mediocre land if you don't, even with a mids specialist setup, however I also disagree with going for horse archers. I cannot fathom why to research an expensive tech when you have 5 strength chariots as your uu... 1 more strength for a (more expensive?) unit and a huge delay? Not in my book.
Round 2a
This is a very short update. I decided to go for the horses first, so I switched research to Fishing and sent the workers to road in that direction.
The overflow from the settler went into the Barracks and 1 turn later I finished the warrior.
This is what the 2 warriors found:
First, north. There's at least 1 good city with copper! I just have to make sure Justinian doesn't settle there (unless he already has copper).
And then a GP farm...
Yes that's 3 fish! It will lack production but I can see the Globe Theater getting whipped here. Great GP farm as well. Makes the Pyramids even juicier.
Any new thoughts?
This is a very short update. I decided to go for the horses first, so I switched research to Fishing and sent the workers to road in that direction.
The overflow from the settler went into the Barracks and 1 turn later I finished the warrior.
This is what the 2 warriors found:
First, north. There's at least 1 good city with copper! I just have to make sure Justinian doesn't settle there (unless he already has copper).
And then a GP farm...
Yes that's 3 fish! It will lack production but I can see the Globe Theater getting whipped here. Great GP farm as well. Makes the Pyramids even juicier.
Any new thoughts?
Don't see any mistake of 2nd worker, 2 worker and 1 settler at turn 37 is pretty good. yes, the horse city next and then the gold. Scout Justinain's land, as long as you can control his metal, no need to chop too many forests -- they are precious.
