Effeminate man rejected from donating blood

Lifetime exclusion - risk of one infection in every 4.41 million donations
Five-year time limit - risk of one infection in every 4.39 million donations
One-year time limit - risk of one infection in every 4.38 million donations
No limit - risk of one infection in every 3.48 million donations.
This corrborates what I have been stating all along. Even if you exclude all "MSM" individuals, there is still the chance that a heterosexual donor can cause an infection. It is really just changing the odds from once ever 4.41 million donations to once ever 3.48 million with no restrictions whatsoever, while it only increases the risk from 4.41 to 4.38 with a one-year limit.

I think it is clear the appropriate strategy is to get over the paranoia and fear, and allow anybody to donate blood if they haven't had contact with someone who may have HIV in the past month, regardless of whether or not they engage in homosexual sex instead of heterosexual sex. This is what most medical authorities in this topic suggest.
 
I didnt have a problem with a lifetime ban, and I really dont see the year long ban enabling that many more donations than previously experienced, so to me, from that aspect, its a complete wash.

My overall issue is blood collection is still a human sticking a needle into another human...and as long as humans are involved mistakes can happen. Whether its someone that is unknowingly HIV donating blood, and a tech makes an error and sticks an infected needle into someone by accident, or whether a tech messes up the HIV screen down the road and allows a tainted bag of blood into the supply, such mistakes still do indeed occur within the blood supply system we have today. The real question is whether this makes our blood safer or more unsafe and if unsafe then to what degree?

Point being it was put out earlier in the thread that this change carries the following risk:

Lifetime exclusion - risk of one infection in every 4.41 million donations
Five-year time limit - risk of one infection in every 4.39 million donations
One-year time limit - risk of one infection in every 4.38 million donations
No limit - risk of one infection in every 3.48 million donations

There are roughly 30 million donations of blood a year in the USA, so essentially this change is going to mean 1 to 2 people more a year could face accidental HIV/AIDs infection via our blood supply. I dont think thats worth it to simply appease a bunch of people because they feel slighted at not being able to give blood.

Oh, so you don't think people should die because of human error. That's fantastic. It means you no longer defend capital punishment like you did in this thread.

Even if 1 or 2 people die a year from HIV infection, I think all the gay blood that saves people's lives kinda makes up for that. It'd be best if no one got HIV, of course, but I think it's better to kill a few innocents than kill a whole lot.
 
Only one or two a year would not die. There has only been a single case of HIV-tainted plasma causing a recipient to contract HIV this past decade.
 
Oh, so you don't think people should die because of human error. That's fantastic. It means you no longer defend capital punishment like you did in this thread.

Well, first of all, the numbers show about 6 people a year get HIV/AIDs from the blood supply. Are you equating that in any way with the death penalty? How many a year do we wrongfully execute?

Point being, in all the years of capital punishment, its never been factually proven that a single person was wrongfully executed (albeit it is indeed suspected in a couple of cases). Therefore, I'm going to have to argue that the two issues arent quite as comparable as you would hope.

Even if 1 or 2 people die a year from HIV infection, I think all the gay blood that saves people's lives kinda makes up for that. It'd be best if no one got HIV, of course, but I think it's better to kill a few innocents than kill a whole lot.

First of all, how much do you think this will add to the blood supply? Know a lot of gay men that havent had sex in over a year? Like I said earlier, i'm rather unconvinced that this is going to change much at all as far as overall donations are concerned.

Your free to provide evidence otherwise if you have any.
 
Only one or two a year would not die. There has only been a single case of HIV-tainted plasma causing a recipient to contract HIV this past decade.

Well, actually theres been more than just one http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/...cle_318e226b-e782-5fc2-8394-28ca274b46ce.html

The only recorded case of HIV transmission from a blood transfusion in the last eight years has been linked to a Missouri blood donor, according to a federal report.

A man in his 40s donated contaminated blood at a Missouri blood center in June 2008, according to the report released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The man's HIV positive status was not confirmed until after he donated blood a second time, in November 2008. The contaminated blood was destroyed and the man was prohibited from future donations.

In the meantime, investigators found that the man's blood from the first donation had been transfused into two patients. One patient in Arkansas died of heart disease two days after receiving a transfusion during a July 2008 surgery, and it is unknown whether the patient contracted HIV. The second patient, of Colorado, received a blood transfusion during a kidney transplant in August 2008 and later tested positive for HIV.

Lab results confirmed that the blood transfusion was the cause of the HIV infection in the kidney transplant patient. The last known case of HIV transmission from a blood transfusion was in 2002.

From 2002:

http://news.injuryboard.com/two-tampa-bay.aspx?googleid=27066

Two Tampa Bay area residents received devastating news Wednesday when they learned they had contracted the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) from a blood transfusion. The two unidentified patients received the tainted transfusions during surgery in mid-March. According to Florida Blood Services, which supplies 180,000 pints of blood a year to 30 Hillsborough, Pinellas and Pasco county hospitals, the transfusions originated from the same donor.
Also in contrast to the earlier odds of HIV/AIDs transferance from blood donation, this story says:

The risk of contracting HIV from a blood transfusion is about 1 in 1.5 million, according to CDC estimates.

The report is being published today in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

Interesting. I wonder why the CDC estimates would be that much different from the UK estimates?

But it is also about more than just HIV/AIDs as well. There are quite a few diseases you can get from donated blood, not just HIV/AIDs.

But this happens in other places as well like in this just released story. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/12/501364/main20104767.shtml

(CBS/AP) AHMADABAD, India - At least 23 children suffering from a rare genetic disorder that requires regular blood transfusions have tested positive for HIV after receiving tainted blood, officials said Monday.

The children, who suffer from thalassemia and are from poor families, all received free blood transfusions at a government-run hospital in the Junagadh district of Gujarat state in western India between January and August, hospital head G.T. Dayalu said.

State government spokesman Jai Narayan Vyas said a team of doctors has been sent to investigate.

News reports quoted Vyas as saying that many of the infected children had received transfusions from more than one hospital.

But the Indian Express newspaper reported that parents of the children said they had received blood only at the government-run Junagadh Civil Hospital.

http://www.huliq.com/28618/eleven-infected-with-hiv-after-blood-transfusion-in-kyrgyzstan

A total of 79 children and eight mothers contracted the virus through blood transfusions and intravenous injections in neighboring Kazakhstan in the summer 2006. Eight children have since died. - RIA Novosti

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=672827&publicationSubCategoryId=63

MANILA, Philippines - More units of donated blood have been found to be positive for the AIDS-causing human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), the Department of Health (DOH) reported yesterday.

Data from the Philippine HIV-AIDS Registry in February indicated that more than one in every five blood units they have tested has been contaminated with HIV.

“Out of the 67 blood units referred for HIV confirmation, 15 units were positive for HIV and 50 units were negative for HIV and two units had indeterminate results,” the report said.

But government health experts clarified that the 15 HIV-positive units do not automatically translate to 15 people since one blood donor can donate more than one blood unit.

Based on the same report released last Friday, there was one reported HIV case acquired through blood transfusion.

http://www.noblood.org/news-hot-top...ion-through-blood-transfusion-confirmed-japan

HIV infection through blood transfusion confirmed (Japan)
TOKYO, Jan. 20 (Xinhuanet) -- Japan's Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare on Tuesday confirmed that a patient contracted the AIDS virus after receiving a transfusion of HIV-tainted blood that had cleared the Japanese Red Cross Society's virus-detection test.

This was Japan's first confirmed HIV infection through a transfusion of donated blood since the Red Cross introduced the current donated-blood testing system in 1999, the ministry said.

A public testing organization has found that the HIV gene sequences detected in the donated blood in question were identical to those in the blood of the patient who received the transfusion, it said.

The blood in question tested HIV-negative in May last year and was used in the transfusion.

But the blood donor tested HIV-positive when he attempted to give blood again in November, and a stored sample of the blood was found infected with the AIDS virus when retested with a more advanced method, according to the ministry. Enditem
 
Well, first of all, the numbers show about 6 people a year get HIV/AIDs from the blood supply. Are you equating that in any way with the death penalty? How many a year do we wrongfully execute?

Obviously there have been innocent people executed. You can look at this website to see that there have been several cases where there are strong cases that the wrong man has been killed. Anyways, I just think it's kind of hypocritical to want to murder a thousand people even though one happens to be innocent and also to want to protect people from the extremely unlikely event of HIV-contraption by banning blood that's mostly clean and could save lots of lives.

Point being, in all the years of capital punishment, its never been factually proven that a single person was wrongfully executed (albeit it is indeed suspected in a couple of cases). Therefore, I'm going to have to argue that the two issues arent quite as comparable as you would hope.

And I'm going to have to argue that for the most part, dead people don't get a trial, so obviously very few if any dead people would be found innocent. I bump a thread on capital punishment if you want.

First of all, how much do you think this will add to the blood supply? Know a lot of gay men that havent had sex in over a year? Like I said earlier, i'm rather unconvinced that this is going to change much at all as far as overall donations are concerned.

Your free to provide evidence otherwise if you have any.

'The committee report offers a good illustration of how to get that kind of information. It cites data from the 2000 U.K. National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles, known as NATSAL. That survey found that 45 percent of MSM had never had genital contact with more than one male partner. Three-quarters of these single-partner men had never had anal sex; more than 60 percent had no sexual contact with men in the last year. Among men who'd had sex with men in the previous year, 40 percent had only one partner during that time, 22 percent had no activity with a partner in the last four weeks, and only 40 percent had activity with a new partner during the last four weeks. NATSAL found that the median number of partners reported by MSM in the previous year was two, but the mean was eight. That's a huge gap. It means that a minority of gay men are intensely promiscuous, and they're inflating the average risk data for the majority who aren't.'

http://www.slate.com/id/2303599/
 
Actually, I am referring to the US which is what this topic was clearly about.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5941a3.htm

Transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) through transfusion of contaminated blood components was documented in the United States in 1982 (1). Since then, the risk for transfusion-transmitted HIV infection has been almost eliminated by the use of questionnaires to exclude donors at higher risk for HIV infection and the use of highly sensitive laboratory screening tests to identify infected blood donations. The risk for acquiring HIV infection through blood transfusion today is estimated conservatively to be one in 1.5 million, based on 2007--2008 data (2). This report describes the first U.S. case of transfusion-transmitted HIV infection reported to CDC since 2002 (3). A blood center in Missouri discovered that blood components from a donation in November 2008 tested positive for HIV infection. A lookback investigation determined that this donor had last donated in June 2008, at which time he incorrectly reported no HIV risk factors and his donation tested negative for the presence of HIV. One of the two recipients of blood components from this donation, a patient undergoing kidney transplantation, was found to be HIV infected, and an investigation determined that the patient's infection was acquired from the donor's blood products. Even though such transmissions are rare, health-care providers should consider the possibility of transfusion-transmitted HIV in HIV-infected transfusion recipients with no other risk factors.

Donor. In June 2008, a man in his forties donated whole blood at a blood center in Missouri (Figure 1). He was a repeat blood donor who reported no HIV risk factors on the routine eligibility screening questionnaire. He was not compensated for his blood donation. His whole blood donation was screened at a reference laboratory for HIV by enzyme immunoassay (EIA) (Genetic Systems HIV-1/HIV-2 Plus O EIA, Bio-Rad Laboratories, Redmond, Washington) and by nucleic acid amplification testing of minipools of plasma specimens (MP-NAT) from 16 donations (Procleix HIV-1 Nucleic Acid Test, Gen Probe, San Diego, California); both tests were negative. Components from this donation later were transfused into two recipients. No specimens from this donation were stored. In November 2008, the man donated blood again at the same blood center and again reported no risk factors on the routine eligibility screening questionnaire. At that time, his blood tested positive for HIV by EIA, MP-NAT, and indirect immunofluorescence assay (Fluorognost HIV-1 IFA, Sanochemia Corporation, Vienna, Austria). The man was placed on the list of donors who are indefinitely ineligible for future donation, all products from this donation were destroyed, and the man was notified by the blood center of his probable HIV infection. The Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services (MDHSS) was notified of this case on December 4, 2008. Because of the rare possibility that the donor might have been infected shortly before his June 2008 donation and donated blood that contained HIV at a concentration too low to be detected, an investigation was initiated to determine whether recipients of the June donation had been infected with HIV, consistent with regulatory requirements to investigate such events.
But it looks like I was mistaken. There have been two cases instead of one, since 2002 was slightly less than 10 years ago. But it is clearly no longer any sort of problem to warrant this level of fear. There will continue to be the occasional blood donor who is HIV-positive but the tests don't pick it up regardless of their sexual proclivity.
 
Obviously there have been innocent people executed.

Obviously thats never been proven.

You can look at this website to see that there have been several cases where there are strong cases that the wrong man has been killed. Anyways, I just think it's kind of hypocritical to want to murder a thousand people even though one happens to be innocent and also to want to protect people from the extremely unlikely event of HIV-contraption by banning blood that's mostly clean and could save lots of lives.

Why would I want to get my information from an obviously biased website?

And as I pointed out, 'strong cases' dont mean 'confirmed cases', do they? But I did say it was suspected in a couple of them, albeit not proven to be fact.

Well, actually, I am referring to the US which is what this topic was clearly about.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5941a3.htm

But it looks like I was mistaken. There have been two cases instead of one, since 2002 was slightly less than 10 years ago.

There were 2 people in 2002...just being accurate. :D But the 2008 does indeed establish that it can indeed happen despite those 'infallible' tests you keep mentioning.
 
And that is regardless of how fearful people continue to be about homosexual sex practices, despite the advice of the leading experts in the field today. It is simply no longer a major issue in the US anymore.
 
And that is regardless of how fearful people continue to be about homosexual sex practices, despite the advice of the leading experts in the field today. It is simply no longer a major issue in the US anymore.

Thats great except for the fact that the people that make the rules for the blood supply in the USA disagree with you.
 
No one has really come up with a reason why gay men who do not have unprotected anal sex should be banned from giving blood for their entire life. Instead there's just a lot of lecturing about how gays are roaming sex fiends.
 
Well from the current policy we see very few cases of tainted blood being donated, so it looks like the current system is working.

Where..? In Australia?
 
Thats great except for the fact that the people that make the rules for the blood supply in the USA disagree with you.
Only because of the lobbying against it and the members who were appointed by Bush, which was explained in the previous thread. And that vote almost went the other way. Soon it undoubtedly will unless we elect another far-right president who puts even more like-minded people into responsible positions of power. Fear can only trump basic medical science and ethics for so long.
 
No one has really come up with a reason why gay men who do not have unprotected anal sex should be banned from giving blood for their entire life. Instead there's just a lot of lecturing about how gays are roaming sex fiends.

The reason has been given over and over again. Its the fact that MSM have 44 times the HIV/AIDs infection rate of other transmission demographs.

I think that would be reason for most, and a cause of some alarm.
 
And why do you think they have that rate?

Because they engage in high risk sex behavior more than the other demographs (which is also repeated by the CDC as the cause).

Why do YOU think they have that rate?
 
Because they engage in high risk sex behavior more than the other demographs (which is also repeated by the CDC as the cause).

Why do YOU think they have that rate?

Because God hates them.
 
Because they engage in high risk sex behavior more than the other demographs (which is also repeated by the CDC as the cause).

Why do YOU think they have that rate?

People who have unprotected anal sex are at a higher rate of HIV. Not all gay men engage in unprotected anal sex. Therefore a ban on every man who's had sex with a man for his entire lifetime is pointless.
 
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