Electronic cigarettes

[onejayhawk]

How do you feel about these things? I have never smoked, so they have no personal appeal, but I know two people who are using them to cut down on cigarettes. They are also allowed many places cigarettes are not.

That said, nicotine is one of the most potent poisons commonly found. A pack of cigarette has enough nicotine to kill ten people. The e-cigs use a purified form dissolved in water. Various parties are pushing to get them banned, citing accidental poisoning.

Since there there has yet to be an accidental death, this seems excessive to me. Compare, for example, cough syrup or vitamins.

Where do you stand.

J

 

[warpus]

It's a step in the right direction. Next we need electronic beer and electronic crack pipes.

 

[nc-1701]

Whenever I see them getting used in coffee shops, buses, etc. (where smoking is of course not allowed) it disgusts me. Each time I'm slightly more tempted to make a scene about and demand they keep their poisons at home. Sure they are less disgusting than regular cigarettes, but their users act like that makes them somehow better. When they are still sick degenerates willfully poisoning themselves and everyone around them.

 

[warpus]

Whenever I see them getting used in coffee shops, buses, etc. (where smoking is of course not allowed) it disgusts me. Each time I'm slightly more tempted to make a scene about and demand they keep their poisons at home. Sure they are less disgusting than regular cigarettes, but their users act like that makes them somehow better. When they are still sick degenerates willfully poisoning themselves and everyone around them.

To be honest I don't really care as long as there are no nasty fumes and as long as they don't just throw their butts on the ground. With electronic cigarettes those 2 annoyances are eliminated (right?), so it seems win/win to me. That they look smug is beside the point, to me, I just don't care.

There is something about smokers that makes them think that it's okay to litter as long as it's a butt. I hate it and it doesn't happen with e-cigs, so I have to support it. I mean, c'mon, sometimes it's so annoying I'm tempted to follow the guy home and dump a bunch of garbage on his front lawn. What makes you think it's okay to litter? Knock it off, jerk.

 

[Antilogic]

I appreciate that smokers are using them to try to find a middle ground with non-smokers.

Are there any toxic side effects of (or residual nicotine in) the emitted vapor? This is something that has not been made clear to me.

 

[nc-1701]

To be honest I don't really care as long as there are no nasty fumes and as long as they don't just throw their butts on the ground. With electronic cigarettes those 2 annoyances are eliminated (right?), so it seems win/win to me. That they look smug is beside the point, to me, I just don't care.

There is something about smokers that makes them think that it's okay to litter as long as it's a butt. I hate it and it doesn't happen with e-cigs, so I have to support it. I mean, c'mon, sometimes it's so annoying I'm tempted to follow the guy home and dump a bunch of garbage on his front lawn. What makes you think it's okay to litter? Knock it off, jerk.

Fair point, I do hate actual smokers far more than I do e-cig smokers. Largely for the reasons you stated.

I appreciate that smokers are using them to try to find a middle ground with non-smokers.

Are there any toxic side effects of (or residual nicotine in) the emitted vapor? This is something that has not been made clear to me.

The emitted vapor is the nicotine! (Yes I know it isn't 100% it's suspended solution or whatever.) But say anything and get ready for a lecture about how it's "just water vapor" and your the one being a dick.

 

[H4run]

if it is healthy and affordable without any harmful side effect, that is worth to try.

 

[Antilogic]

The emitted vapor is the nicotine! (Yes I know it isn't 100% it's suspended solution or whatever.) But say anything and get ready for a lecture about how it's "just water vapor" and your the one being a dick.

This is where I have a problem. At least with the awful smoke, I know I'm being exposed to something bad and I can move to a place where it is clear. But if it is odorless, then I don't necessarily have a signal to know I'm being exposed.

It's why I like to work with smelly chemicals over the clear and odorless kind in lab. You know when you are getting too much before it turns lethal.

 

[KevinLancaster]

I've never smoked, and I didn't really have an opinion on e-cigs really before now, but from what I've read in this thread I'm guessing that their advantage over patches is that it feels like you're smoking. Why don't they prescribe patches and an e-cig filled with nothing but water if possible? That way you aren't risking issues with second-hand residue and you're being weaned off smoking while at the same time you feel like you are smoking.

 

[Formaldehyde]

One study says that the nicotine level is 10 times less and the other toxic compounds aren't present.

In the first study, the scientists used a smoke machine to “smoke” the cigarettes and then measure the concentrations of nicotine and other volatile organic compounds such as carbon monoxide released. They compared these emissions to those of standard cigarettes. Then, the team asked five male participants to smoke both tobacco and e-cigarettes in a room that measured contaminant exposure.

The found that e-cigarettes are a source of second-hand exposure to nicotine, but not of other compounds released when tobacco is burned. And the nicotine exposure was 10 times less than that from tobacco smoke.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

This is where I have a problem. At least with the awful smoke, I know I'm being exposed to something bad and I can move to a place where it is clear. But if it is odorless, then I don't necessarily have a signal to know I'm being exposed.

It's why I like to work with smelly chemicals over the clear and odorless kind in lab. You know when you are getting too much before it turns lethal.

Yeah, I hear your point. It does expose people to second-hand nicotine and they probably don't know it. But as Formaldehyde points out, none of the other chemicals are there and given the volume of air in a typical room and the tiny amount of nicotine these things put out, you are probably getting an effective dose of ~0 unless you're shotgunning the person who's hitting an e-cigarette.

I'm conflicted on the current spate of bans that cities like LA and NY are putting in place on these things. Especially if they try and ban them in outdoor spaces (the way NYC banned cigarettes in central park), then I'm going to have to be against the bans. I wish someone would do some more studies on the secondhand effects of these things.


As for myself, I have tried e-cigs and I don't find them satisfying. Well, I don't find the bargain brand ones satisfying. You can go all pro with it and get mod kits and essentially make your own giant e-cig that is satisfying (I've tried one and it was really good) but that takes a ton of money. Also, you walk around with a giant metal brick with a spout you suck on. That's not sexy. If they could stuff the power of those custom ones into the smaller package of the e-cigs that look like normal cigarettes, I'd be all over it.

 

[onejayhawk]

if it is healthy and affordable without any harmful side effect, that is worth to try.

No, no and no.

It is less unhealthy than cigarettes, appears to cost less and carries only the side effects of nicotine, not tar and fiberglass.

I think the attempt at a middle ground is accurate. Citgarettes kill. E-cigs do so slower.

J

 

[bhsup]

I've been smoking blu brand e-cigs for about a year now. I still have the occasional Camel, but it is mostly just the e-cigs now.

One thing that probably needs to be kept in mind is that there are many brands, a lot of DIY kits, and modders out there. I just do the stock e-cigs from blu with their cartridges. I don't mod or refill on my own. I bring this up because occasionally I get someone who tells me, "Hey, those things blow up!" No, not really. I found a report of one doing it and it turns out it was some dip modder who tried to double the battery or something like that. I also like the fact that I know my 'juice' in my cartridges from blu are coming from a premium American supplier and not some mystery place in the PRC that is probably lacing it with lead.

The e-cigs have no tar, no chemicals in the paper, no formaldehyde (no offense, Forma!) etc. They have no butts for people to flick out the window (I've never abided smokers that do that, but let's face it, most do,) and are a crap load cheaper than regular cigs. I pay roughly 1/2 as much as I was when I was just smoking Camels. That said, that tar and whatnot did give the real cigs that something extra that my blus are lacking, which I why I love my rare real Camel that I treat myself to.

Let's move on to nicotine, shall we? "It is a poison!" Yeah, well, so is chocolate. Per Wiki... "In smaller doses (an average cigarette yields about 1 mg of absorbed nicotine), the substance acts as a stimulant in mammals, while high amounts (50–100 mg) can be harmful." Guess what else has nicotine? Eggplant, tomato, potato, friggin' cauliflower.

So all in all, I think e-cigs are a huge plus. I don't personally push it and try to puff away in places that ban smoking even though it isn't smoking (no smoke, eh, it's water vapor with maybe a hint of nicotine... oh, you're eating a BLT, right) just because I know most people would irrationally flip out about it. That said, I probably won't be polite about it for long.

Second to last, I would like to address one part of the whole e-cig thing that really bugs me. The attempt to make it some cool social thing. Blu offers these fancy packs that actually allow you to load up your facebook profile and crap into them and sync it when it detects other blu users who have enabled their pack within a short distance. The pack can even be set to light up and crud. I do -not- like this aspect of it.

And now lastly... to the haters. Bugger off.

Whenever I see them getting used in coffee shops, buses, etc. (where smoking is of course not allowed) it disgusts me. Each time I'm slightly more tempted to make a scene about and demand they keep their poisons at home. Sure they are less disgusting than regular cigarettes, but their users act like that makes them somehow better. When they are still sick degenerates willfully poisoning themselves and everyone around them.

You're probably one of those that would yell at me from shore if I lit up in the middle of a lake while fishing from a boat. Don't worry, for what it's worth, you extremists disgust me too, so we're even.

 

[REDY]

I've never smoked, and I didn't really have an opinion on e-cigs really before now, but from what I've read in this thread I'm guessing that their advantage over patches is that it feels like you're smoking. Why don't they prescribe patches and an e-cig filled with nothing but water if possible? That way you aren't risking issues with second-hand residue and you're being weaned off smoking while at the same time you feel like you are smoking.

E-smoking without nicottine is possible and is promoted... However e-smoking is only partly like smoking. It takes time to move from cigarettes to e-cigarettes. When you smoke cigarette without tobacco just some herbs or smoke electronical cigarette, its about half enjoyable than original cigs. Removing both, smoke and nicottine, means removing nearly all pleasure.

Otherwise, e-cigs are danger because you can easily "overdose" nicotine. How is it less enjoyable and how it is less restricted, the most e-smokers smoke more.

So I doubt that e-cigs are good as tool for quitting.

 

[IglooDame]

That said, nicotine is one of the most potent poisons commonly found. A pack of cigarette has enough nicotine to kill ten people. The e-cigs use a purified form dissolved in water. Various parties are pushing to get them banned, citing accidental poisoning.

Since there there has yet to be an accidental death, this seems excessive to me. Compare, for example, cough syrup or vitamins.

Where do you stand.

J

My wife used them in the process of quitting, she had unsuccessfully quit using other products/strategies previously. I certainly didn't mind her using them, the end justified the means.

But banning them, citing accidental poisoning? Have these various parties no sense of perspective whatsoever? Or maybe they're getting paid by Big Tobacco behind the scenes?

 

[illram]

From a harm reduction perspective I think they're great. As a former smoker I remember how hard it was to quit. If these help people quit, awesome. And if they're just recreational, OK with me as long as you're respecting everyone's personal space. Which is much easier to do than with a normal cigarrette.

 

[Farm Boy]

They don't carry the same level of risk to tertiary parties as do burnt cigarettes(minus the buttwads demanding the proof of a negative). Anyone claiming otherwise with the current level of scientific study is a "female dog" that is full of hate without reason.

They aren't a miracle cure, but they also aren't as bad for the smoker his or herlself as a burnt cigarette, with only "female dogs" full of hate disagreeing.

They're a current end run around certain moralizing BS fullofhate justifications on taxes, which will make certain entities profiting from shoving thier noses up the anus's of their peers hostile to them.

They've helped multiple friends of mine quit smoking, then end use of of nicotine alltogether. They've helped me quit smoking, and using nicotine alltogether.

Long story short: don't be the sort of anus that assumes these are the same thing as your grandpa's cigarrette and hate on them. It makes you a bad person.

 

[Zelig]

Whenever I see someone with a portable vaporizer I assume they're vaping THC.

 

[KMRblue1027]

Whenever I see someone with a portable vaporizer I assume they're vaping THC.

I'm not gonna lie, on campus here that's 100% true. I don't think I've seen one "regular" one at all.

 

[H4run]

No, no and no.

It is less unhealthy than cigarettes, appears to cost less and carries only the side effects of nicotine, not tar and fiberglass.

I think the attempt at a middle ground is accurate. Citgarettes kill. E-cigs do so slower.

J

My wife is pregnant right now, even though I never smoke near her in my house (I smoke infront of the window) but I guess it is better for me to smoke the less unhealthy.

hey don't carry the same level of risk to tertiary parties as do burnt cigarettes(minus the buttwads demanding the proof of a negative).

I will start to search about this e-cigs around here, hope I can found one.