Emp01 - Rise and Rule AWE

I agree. Start 2 is definitely the best. Settling on a hill gives one extra shield. But it might be difficult with the marshland in the north and the jungle (Or is it forest?). And the central position might be hard for AW. Is it a continent or pangäa?

A last question is about the espionage of the enemy. Is it allowed to look at the opponents by the F-keys? Can we look at the techs of the KI before declaring war?
 
But it causes disease and marshland isn't that productive. 1food + 1shield. On floodplains the disease is bad, but you can grow fast. In jungle you are thrown a couple of turns back. And that's terrible.
But we will see. Perhaps no disease appear.
 
If we play start 2, I think I would vote for going 1 north. I would want to be near the deer and on the river.

How much food/shields is the dear in the jungle worth? Or did you say it was swamp? It doesn't look like swamp.

Note that start 3 with a food resource and all those BG is not a bad choice either at least for the early game. Later on the capitol would have a distinct lack of shields.

I guess it depends on whether the deer is 3 food or not. If it is only 2 then I think start 3 wins. If the deer in jungle/marsh is 3 food then I vote start 2.
 
I think game/jungle is only 2 in chief, since game adds +1/+1/0

4000 BC for start 2 I have to go with start 2 since 3 has so few shields. 2 we'll have slow growth, but there is enough grass nearby.

I would settle 1 SW from the worker. The save has the settler where the worker is.

Your'e up Greebley, go ahead and take it.

Roster (Greebley can take 20 turns, rest of us will have 10 for now)

Greebley- Ready to kick it off with 20 turns
PaGe - On deck
Empiremaker
Elephantium


Greebley- I hear your arguments for 3, but PaGe wanted 2, and I prefer 2, so we'll go with 2.

Good luck team
 
I am having trouble loading the save. Sometimes when you upload the save is corrupted - can anyone else download and play the save above?

The other possibility is that we have some odd version mismatch. I do have 1.04 beta on my machine and was able to start a game there.

Emp, try downloading your own save - save it somewhere else (don't overwrite your existing one) and see if you can load it. If not the file is corrupt. If you can then I am guessing the version mismatch.
 
I tested out another 1.04 save to make sure my version was ok. I grabbed a save from San05 and it loaded for me.

Empiremaker - Another test is to see if you can load this one ( but I am guessing the file simply got corrupted when uploaded and we only need to upload again).

Zipped save game from San05 - a recent RaR game
 
Swamp is 2 food 1 shield and the game is 1 food 1 shield. This means the Game is still 2 food 2 shields at the start and worth having in the city radius IMO.

I made a map of locations:
1) Advantages - Immediate access to the game. Disadvantages - I see swamp to the east. That is 3 squares that will be useless for a long time - still the city won't be bigger than size 14 for a long time either. Not coastal
2) Advantages - Gets the game once the radius expands. Maximum number of hills. Disadvantage - a single sea square is wasted because we are not coastal.
3) Advantages - Coastal capitol. Disadvantages - Loses the 2/2 game square.

I think that game square is very important. If we work a hill we cannot grow at size 1. Therefore we have to work the 2/1 Bonus Grassland (after expansion) and a normal grassland at size 2 without the game.

Position 2 allows us to work a 2/2 tile and a 2/1 tile. At size 2 we get 5 shields instead of 3. At size 1 we get 4 shields instead of 3 (once we expand - 10 turns)

Position 1 is similar to position 2 except we get to work the 2/2 deer tile right away. I guess with position 3 and 2 we will be working a regular grassland until the expansion since we want to grow. Thus for the 10 turns before expansion we get 4 shields for position 1 instead of 2 for position 2 and 3. I think the real loss here is that we have one hill less than position 2 and the swamp. Both do not matter until far into the game however.

I think I like position 2 best. It allows us to settle a turn sooner than 1 and 3 (right?) and will be very powerful with all those hills in the latter game.

Next I like position 1. Getting the deer right away is good in AW - more defenders very early on - It is a tough choice between 2 and 1. It also has less shields long term (one less hill and no deer).

I do not like 3 as much. The loss of 1/2 shields at size 1 and 2 for the capitol early on combined with the fact that we are playing AW makes me not like this choice even though it gains the coast. We need to both build an army and expand and Hardy settlers are very expensive. (Our second city can make use of the coast if we wish).

I didn't like the rest of the spots as much because I think we want to 1) settle on a hill for the extra shield, 2) be on the river so we can easily grow past size 7.

I think I got all the facts right. We can only get to size 2 and only if we work 2 food squares (uses up the 2 extra food). Settling on a hill is 2 shields which is very powerful.

Anyway, I think we should discuss more. What do the rest of you think?


Here is a map with 1, 2, and 3 on it:
Emp1_Capitol.jpg
 
I also can't load the save!

At my decision I forgot that we only can clear forrest with Dyn. Jungle is much later. Makes it harder.
I prefer position 3 for the later game. Sure it will be hard at the beginning. But do we need an early war? With the sea we get much gold for commerce and science. As I said, I've no experience in AW. I started a continent-game with the german and played without offensive war at the early game. Later in the game (with elefants) I crushed my neighbors. (Unfortunately the civs on the other island are much stronger, but the game is still running.)
But I see your argument for the production-boost. Hard to decide.

The tribe has two movement-points and no terrain-penalty. We can settle on every point in the first turn.

General point: Are we heading for the GB or is it possible without?

edit: We also can built the collosus, if want to achieve a cultural victory.
 
If we were playing Monarch AW, I think 3 would be a good choice for the reasons you listed. At Emp AW we need to worry much more about the initial turns. Emp level gives a lot more starting units for example.

My worry is that we won't survive to be able to use the commerce. Conversely, we will be bigger and have several additional towns to replace the lost commerce. 3 vs 5 shields is a major difference and I see no way to get 4 shields at spot 3. Its the difference between 12 and 20 turns to build something that costs 60 shields.
 
yeah, I couldn't download my own save. I couldn't get it to appear on the desktop. What error message do you get?

I like 1, we can grab coast later. GB? What's that?

I attempted to load the Sanabas save and had problems. (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens). I have 1.04 beta installed with it. Normal 1.04 beta games work fine.
 
The Sana-Saves functions at my system. Your save causes the error "No valid save file".

Sorry for GB. That's the german abbreviation for Great Library.

Okay, then let us take position 1. I see no advantage in taking position 2. Should be equal if we had more jungle or swamp. And to manage one hill more we will need explosives to feed the residents on new grassland. Then I prefer the earlier production.
Should the worker pop up the hut? Cause a worrier might spawn barbs.
First tech? Cultivation for luxeries, domestication for horses or heading for iron? I prefer the first one, cause the first settler is a couple of turns away for saving a ressource.
 
Empiremaker said:
yeah, I couldn't download my own save. I couldn't get it to appear on the desktop. What error message do you get?

I like 1, we can grab coast later. GB? What's that?

I attempted to load the Sanabas save and had problems. (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens). I have 1.04 beta installed with it. Normal 1.04 beta games work fine.

It loads fine for me. I assume you followed all the instructions in this post when you installed it?

Doc's instructions on installing the 1.04 beta

(Though if you missed a step it doesn't sound like the palace gardens would be effected).

I am worried that my playing your game will somehow mess it up for you if I have the palace gardens and you don't. I chose this game because Doc T is in the game, so this is should be 1.04 beta as it is supposed to be (he would get errors if the save had problems). We can test if we have a problem (comment right below).

Empiremaker,
Go ahead and try to load the upload save a second time (I think it got corrupted during upload - i have seen this before and removing and reuploading the save should fix). I will try to play 20 turns and then we can see if you can still load the save afterward. If so then we are probably ok to play. It does sound like your 1.04 beta might have an issue though.

Or you could simply try to install the 1.04 beta again - if you are missing files then this will fix it.
 
I did try to upload it a second time, and I got a text file from the .SAV upon clicking the link. This was the same problem I got with the orginal, so I didn't think a reupload would help.

I checked the pediaicons and there is a ICON_BLDG_Palace_Garden in there, and I can't open up the .biq files since I have a mac.

If you want to retry here is the link.

Greebley, I have a question abot the easy upload. When I tried to upload a different save with a differnet name, I get a message that there is a file already with that name, and I'm sure there isn't since the link it provides to to a different named file.
 
I think it appends a number if the name occurs more than once.

I like posting saves with the Manage Attachments rather than uploading so you don't have to worry about all that ( you remove it and try again). Only the big files do I upload.

BTW, the message I get is "not a valid save file".

Can you zip files? try zipping and attaching it. Then I can know if it is the uploading (zip file is corrupt) or the save itself (corrupt after unzipping). (This is one reason I tend to zip the saves myself).

If that doesn't work, then we can consider other options.
 
Greebley, we didn't face any problem with the installations in Sana05, regardless if it were age-old installations like mine or fresh ones. So the avalible files are fine.
And, the Palace Garden issue is by no means related to the version of RaR - it's the typical error message for a missing basic installation. The PG just happens to be the first 'added' item Civ tries to load.

So, in fact I'd advise to reinstall RaR. Somehow I suspect he 'successfully' installed the small 1.04 patch, but missed the huge RaR basic file...
 
Ok, I did a search for the word (ICON_BLDG_Palace_Gardens) you had an error with in the RAR files and found it in the pediaconst.txt.

The pcx files listed were in the base civ3 directory:
Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\buildings\palaceAMERlarge.pcx
Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\buildings\palaceAMERsmall.pcx


This is a small part of the text grabbed from the RAR\Text\pediacons.txt: (I added the bold)

...
#ICON_BLDG_Echelon
SINGLE
143
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\TajMahallarge.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\TajMahalsmall.pcx
#ICON_BLDG_Palace_Garden
SINGLE
1
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\palaceamerlarge.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\palaceamersmall.pcx
#ICON_BLDG_Summer_Gardens
SINGLE
5
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\Summerpalacelarge.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\buildings\SummerPalacesmall.pcx
...

Check to see if your pediacons.txt has that defined (search for palace gardens) and that you have the pcx files in the same location as I do.

If there is no difference:
You mentioned you have a mac - RAR was never tested on a mac since the mac didn't have conquests when it was made. I wonder if it could be something like the capitolization not matching? Not sure if the mac has case sensitive file names or not. If it does, it could possibly be the issue. You could create lowercase versions of the pcx files. (copy palaceAMERlarge.pcx to palaceamerlarge.pcx)

Did you want to try to zip your save and upload it? if we play with that we may be fine since you say you have no problems with your own games.

Anyway, I am not sure if this helps or not. Doc knows more about these things than I do.
 
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