Enemy Ace Asks: Why do you need religion...?

[bhsup]

1) What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?

God.

2) Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?

Why are you reliant on gravity to stay on earth or oxygen to breath? Because that's how it is. Gravity exists and keeps you bound, oxygen exists and keeps you alive.

God exists and as our creator is due our obedience and worship.

3) How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?

Not sure what you're getting at here. Would I die for my belief? I'd like to think so, but I don't think anyone can answer that until they are confronted with that situation.

Would I kill others to make them believe the same as I? Not in a gazillion years.

 

[JohnRM]

1) What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?

God.

2) Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?

I am not reliant on a God or deity. I am reliant on the truth. It is my search for truth and knowledge that drives me. This is what I believe the truth to be.

3) How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?

I do not know exactly what you mean by that. If by defending my belief you mean defending my right to believe and express it in any rational manner that I choose, then I will defend my beliefs till my very last breath and with deadly force, if neccessary.

If by defending my beliefs you mean coercing or 'converting' others to that belief, I am not interested in engaging in such pursuits for that sole purpose. If someone wishes to discuss the issues or challenge my beliefs, then I will take great pleasure in responding.

 

[downtown]

I need religion just to piss off Curt.

 

[CaptainF]

I need religion just to piss off Curt.

I rely on my personal brand of agnosticism to piss off everyone!

 

[Perfection]

1. I just feel like having something to believe in. I don't really care personally. I have a god named God and I believe that it made the universe.

Beleiving in something because you feel like it is a rather dubious

2. How else can I explain the creation of the universe?

Do you need a full explination?

3. My belief in God... I would be willing to die for my belief because I really don't care about life on Earth.

That's troubling

If I am correct, and Heaven DOES exist, then I'll go on to an afterlife. If not then I'll won't care because everything will be done then.

What if you're wrong and God sends people who believe in unevidenced theories to hell?

Why are you reliant on gravity to stay on earth or oxygen to breath? Because that's how it is. Gravity exists and keeps you bound, oxygen exists and keeps you alive.

But I can empirically determine that gravity and oxygen keep me alive, I don't think I can do the same for God. Why do you assert God is neccesary?

I am not reliant on a God or deity. I am reliant on the truth. It is my search for truth and knowledge that drives me. This is what I believe the truth to be.

What makes you believe that God/Religion is the truth?

 

[bhsup]

But I can empirically determine that gravity and oxygen keep me alive, I don't think I can do the same for God. Why do you assert God is neccesary?

I don't "assert" that God is necessary. His existence does that, and any assertion by me or anyone else to either prove or disprove it is irrelevant to the fact that he exists.

What makes you believe that God/Religion is the truth?

My entire life experience up to this point, my communication with God, the Holy Spirit's presence, you name it. Good enough for me.

By the way, the initial post of this tread had nothing to do with asking anyone to prove anything, nor did it have the later demand by Curt for no "unsupportable statements". That last one really cracked me up, actually. Starting a thread asking people of a religious nature about God but then not wanting any unsupportable statements. Given that God is entirely unprovable from a scientific point of view, that rather makes the whole thread moot, doesn't it?

 

[sanabas]

as our creator is due our obedience and worship.

This is the bit I don't get. I don't see how 'god deserves obedience and worship' follows from 'god created us'. If I stipulate that god as described in the christian bible exists, created me, can interfere with my life if he chooses to, I still don't see the part that requires me to both obey and worship god. He's omnipotent, he doesn't need my worship. He can intervene in my life if he really wants to change something, and he intentionally gave me free will, so he doesn't need my obedience. If I stipulate the christian god exists, please explain how it follows that I should worship and obey him?

 

[Gladi]

Hullo!
1)
What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?

2)
Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?

3)
How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?

Hiya!
1) Search for rational explanation of universe and search for hope.
2) What do you mean reliant? It strenghtens me to believe there is bigger and and sturdier frame of relevence than some silly universe. Universe without God is pretty bleak place, is it not?
3) Well I will defend that ration should be applied to universe and through it to God with words, for sure. I hope that even threats of violence would not silence me.

 

[CurtSibling]

I need religion just to piss off Curt.

Religion is not something in my life....So it does not bother me, chum.

 

[CurtSibling]

I don't "assert" that God is necessary. His existence does that, and any assertion by me or anyone else to either prove or disprove it is irrelevant to the fact that he exists.

So you basically mean 'Denial'?

My entire life experience up to this point, my communication with God, the Holy Spirit's presence, you name it. Good enough for me.

Not good enough for me.

I always think that personal religious experiences are the most unreliable sources of evidence.

By the way, the initial post of this tread had nothing to do with asking anyone to prove anything, nor did it have the later demand by Curt for no "unsupportable statements". That last one really cracked me up, actually. Starting a thread asking people of a religious nature about God but then not wanting any unsupportable statements. Given that God is entirely unprovable from a scientific point of view, that rather makes the whole thread moot, doesn't it?

Now, now.

No-one here (especialliy myself) has you on trial.
I only ask questions out of interest, not malice.

So don't feel in any way surrounded or threatened.
I welcome your insights and thank you for taking part.

 

[CurtSibling]

Hiya!
1) Search for rational explanation of universe and search for hope.
2) What do you mean reliant? It strenghtens me to believe there is bigger and and sturdier frame of relevence than some silly universe. Universe without God is pretty bleak place, is it not?
3) Well I will defend that ration should be applied to universe and through it to God with words, for sure. I hope that even threats of violence would not silence me.

Positive attitude and answer!

Cheers!

.

 

[Meleager]

Not good enough for me.

I always think that personal religious experiences are the most unreliable sources of evidence.

I once read a metaphor which I quite liked on this topic; my rendering is not as good as the original.

Say you drove into work, and you wanted to talk to the Boss, but you didn't know if he was in or not. Well, when you came, you see the Boss' car in the car park. That's some proof. When you entered the lobby, you talk to the receptionist, and she tells you the boss is in - some more proof. So you go up the hall way, and when you reach the door you see light shining under it, more proof. None of it is conclusive, merely suggestive. But when you open the door, and you see the Boss for himself, all those other proofs become secondary. You know it's true, you no longer need to estimate based on other evidence. Seeing is believing.

Now as far as God goes, that other evidence exists. It is conclusive? No, purposefully so. But as soon as you "see" God nothing else matters.

You suggestion that personal experience "isn't good enough" is ridiculous. Do you really expect us, people who have seen the "Boss" not to believe him because his car wasn't in the garage?

And there is another side to this as well. If we, who have had experience, are wrong then we are either lying, or insane. I suggest that you tell us which one.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

1)
What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?
God

2)
Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?
I have read the word, I have seen the works and I have felt the touch

3)
How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?
As far as I am told.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

And there is another side to this as well. If we, who have had experience, are wrong then we are either lying, or insane. I suggest that you tell us which one.

Now, that is almost too kind an offer to refuse. But I should hold back, and let Perfection and Curtykins do the honours, as I feel they've earned it more than I have.

 

[CurtSibling]

I once read a metaphor which I quite liked on this topic; my rendering is not as good as the original.

Say you drove into work, and you wanted to talk to the Boss, but you didn't know if he was in or not. Well, when you came, you see the Boss' car in the car park. That's some proof. When you entered the lobby, you talk to the receptionist, and she tells you the boss is in - some more proof. So you go up the hall way, and when you reach the door you see light shining under it, more proof. None of it is conclusive, merely suggestive. But when you open the door, and you see the Boss for himself, all those other proofs become secondary. You know it's true, you no longer need to estimate based on other evidence. Seeing is believing.

Really, this whole thing is for another thread.

Now as far as God goes, that other evidence exists. It is conclusive? No, purposefully so. But as soon as you "see" God nothing else matters.

It proves nothing.

Seeing 'god' with your mind is not any way to convince me.

You suggestion that personal experience "isn't good enough" is ridiculous. Do you really expect us, people who have seen the "Boss" not to believe him because his car wasn't in the garage?

The 'boss' in your story is a real man with tax records, national insurance ID,
a motor car, a company with related documentation. From the moment your
company boss was born, he is a human with a record in society. He is real.

On the other hand - Your god is an unproven metaphor. Perpetuated by
people who are desperate for something, anything to give their lives some
meaning. There is no shred (even an atom) of evidence to prove him. And
all the personal accounts of how fuzzy it all feels to imagine him won't work.

And there is another side to this as well. If we, who have had experience, are wrong then we are either lying, or insane. I suggest that you tell us which one.

'Experience' makes you sound like the kind of person who argues that the world
is ran by invisible reptile aliens who abduct humans, it will not help convince me.

I welcome your insights, but why should I have to prove your god for you?

???

 

[ComradeDavo]

Things can be fun, but still be bad for us. It would be fun to eat nothing but steak and cheeseburgers, three meals a day, every day. Wouldn't it? I think it would - right up until I died of a heart attack by my 25th birthday. God cares about you, and because He does, He tells you not to do things that aren't good for you to do.

Do you really think doing drugs is a smart decision? It hurts your body, and that's not opinion, that's a medical fact.


And "the universe just was" is a better argument? I don't think so. I can't see how something as vast as the universe is just came into being by itself.

As for your question about who created God, it's like this: You say God must have been created by someone - but that assumes causation, that there was one thing, then there was something different. That implies the passage of time. But before God created the universe, there was no time - and thus no causation, or creation. Before the universe was created, it was only God, for the simple reason that without time, you can't have a series of events, like the creation of something.


If God exists, (As CivGeneral and I believe) why would it be wrong to fill our lives with His love and His work? You start from the assumption that he doesn't exist, and then question why we act the way we do. I suggest you try looking at it from the opposite view, that God does exist, then maybe our actions will make a lot more sense.

-Has god ever told anything you directly?
-Drugs are a personal choice
-If youn't see anythign as vast as the universe just comign into being then It doesn't make sens ethat you can see a god doing so, given that surely the god would have to be 'vaster' to be able to create the universe!
-I've looked at it from the whole 'god exists' viewpoint before. Left alot of tnhings unexplained and alot of contradictions. Hence my path towards athiesm.

 

[puglover]

Why are you reliant on gravity to stay on earth or oxygen to breath? Because that's how it is. Gravity exists and keeps you bound, oxygen exists and keeps you alive.

God exists and as our creator is due our obedience and worship.

Very well put.

 

[CurtSibling]

Actually, it is not well put at all.

Only a desperate religionist would rely on such a tommyrot analogy.

Gravity and and oxygen are tried and tested concepts that we deal with
every day. God is an unproven idea that does not (for all intentst) exist.

Using a lame understanding of science is no cover for your total lack of divine authentication!

Keep trying, guys!

.

 

[Masquerouge]

God exists and as our creator is due our obedience and worship.

I really do not get that whole obedience and worship part. It seems petty.

 

[Kozmos]

b) I need religion so I can annoy the religious people with my complete lack of morals.