Enemy Ace Asks: Why do you need religion...?

[CurtSibling]

1) Just the chance of annoying you, Curt.

2) No-one else has offered me life after death. Personally, I think that's a bit mean of them, but that's probably a separate issue.

3) Carlisle.

Curtybabes?

And it takes a long road to annoy me. No-one here has ever done that.

Amusing answer on question three.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Couple of things....

1. First, I believe God deserves worship.

This idea always intrigues me. Personally I find the (fundamental/conservative) Christian life rather dull, I am fond of my sex, drugs and rock n roll, so any God that opposes those I would defintely find not worthy of any worship.

2. First because I can't understand the logic of the argument that the universe exists, but it wasn't created. That makes no sense to me

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It makes no sense to me that the universes was 'created' by someone/thing, as that obviously begs the question 'what created the creator?' and so on and so forth.

1)
What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?
Mainly for me, I felt an emptyness in my life that could not be filled with material things or relationships

I don't see how filling your life with religion is any better than fillign it with friendships or women or even computer games!

 

[CaptainF]

1)
What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?

I suspect its because for ages people have wondered why humanity has to be stuck on this crap planet, when there might be something much more beautiful and sublime out there. These thoughts probably led to imagining what this beautiful thing must be like, and thus god, heaven and what have you.

2)
Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?

I'm not.

3)
How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?

Uhh, I won't kill myself over it, but i'd probably defend it intellectually, even though i'm not actually religious!

 

[CurtSibling]

@Dawgphood001:

Good answer on question one, sir!

 

[puglover]

This idea always intrigues me. Personally I find the (fundamental/conservative) Christian life rather dull, I am fond of my sex, drugs and rock n roll, so any God that opposes those I would defintely find not worthy of any worship.

Yeah, he only created the universe after all.

 

[CurtSibling]

Yeah, he only created the universe after all.

No holy wars please - And no unsupportable statements...Unless they have a point to them.

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[puglover]

No holy wars please - And no unsupportable statements...Unless they have a point to them.

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Holy wars?

Anyway he was just asking why Christians would think a God who prohibits some pleasurable activities could be deserving of worship.

 

[CurtSibling]

...he was just asking why Christians would think a God who prohibits some pleasurable activities could be deserving of worship.

I don't want you getting all crusaderish and picking a fight with the heathens.

Let's move along.

.

 

[Elrohir]

Couple of things....

This idea always intrigues me. Personally I find the (fundamental/conservative) Christian life rather dull, I am fond of my sex, drugs and rock n roll, so any God that opposes those I would defintely find not worthy of any worship.

God isn't against sex. He created sex, and everything He created was "good". He's against sex outside of where and what it was meant to be - not against sex itself. That's a gross misrepresentation, but sadly one that is quite common, even among Christians. As for drugs, if you're referring to harmful, addictive drugs, not used for medical purposes, then yes, God does not want us using them. Why should he want us to be a bunch of drug addicts? And as for Rock and Roll....I like rock music myself, and I've yet to find a Bible verse, or receive any message from God that there is anything inherently evil in Rock and Roll. Some songs and bands may not be good to listen to - but that's a matter of personal choice and conviction. There was no 11th Commandment, "Thou Shalt not listen to the Rock and Roll".

It makes no sense to me that the universes was 'created' by someone/thing, as that obviously begs the question 'what created the creator?' and so on and so forth./QUOTE]
He's always existed. So, in a way, He created himself. Just try and wrap your mind around that one.

I don't see how filling your life with religion is any better than fillign it with friendships or women or even computer games![

It's not - unless God is real. And if He is, I think we would be quite annoyed to find us more interested in His creations, or others creations, than Him. If someone you loved dearly came to love a painting you painted more than they loved you, and began paying attention to it to the exclusion of you, wouldn't you be put off? I certainly would be.

 

[Tycoon101]

1. I just feel like having something to believe in. I don't really care personally. I have a god named God and I believe that it made the universe.

2. How else can I explain the creation of the universe?

3. My belief in God... I would be willing to die for my belief because I really don't care about life on Earth. If I am correct, and Heaven DOES exist, then I'll go on to an afterlife. If not then I'll won't care because everything will be done then.

 

[Tycoon101]

It makes no sense to me that the universes was 'created' by someone/thing, as that obviously begs the question 'what created the creator?' and so on and so forth.

Well, if the Creator exists then it couldn't be created could it? If the Creator was created by something- What created the Creator? That's why I believe in God, to completely avoid that question.

 

[Rhymes]

I only bleieve in god today, because I want him to hear my prayers to make Edmonton crush Carolina.

It's now 1-0 Edmonton, God exists.

 

[Meleager]

1)
What is it in your life or situation that draws you to religion?

It makes sense to me. I also have enough personal proof so that I can't deny it. If you want be to say that I have some personal dilemma, or deficiency to help back up some idea that it's a mental illness, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

2)
Explain why are you reliant on the idea of a god or deity?

Depends what you mean by this. If I didn't have God I would continue in my studies, still be at this forum, and have no problem buying groceries.

3)
How far are you willing to go to defend that belief?

I would die. I would never take up arms against other people though, if that's what you want to know.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Yeah, he only created the universe after all.

Did you not read my whole post? My points are all connected!

God isn't against sex. He created sex, and everything He created was "good". He's against sex outside of where and what it was meant to be - not against sex itself. That's a gross misrepresentation, but sadly one that is quite common, even among Christians. As for drugs, if you're referring to harmful, addictive drugs, not used for medical purposes, then yes, God does not want us using them. Why should he want us to be a bunch of drug addicts? And as for Rock and Roll....I like rock music myself, and I've yet to find a Bible verse, or receive any message from God that there is anything inherently evil in Rock and Roll. Some songs and bands may not be good to listen to - but that's a matter of personal choice and conviction. There was no 11th Commandment, "Thou Shalt not listen to the Rock and Roll".


He's always existed. So, in a way, He created himself. Just try and wrap your mind around that one.


It's not - unless God is real. And if He is, I think we would be quite annoyed to find us more interested in His creations, or others creations, than Him. If someone you loved dearly came to love a painting you painted more than they loved you, and began paying attention to it to the exclusion of you, wouldn't you be put off? I certainly would be.

-But I like having sex without marriage, it is fun. As are drugs. And my reference towards rock n roll was all those fundamentalists who rant and rave against Marilyn Manson and so forth. So any God that frown on those things I do not feel deserves worship, it's quite sadistic to 'create' these things then not let me enjoy them!

-I could just counter that you should try and wrap your mind around that the universe 'just was' or whatever, that isn't a very good argument.

-That logic makes sense, but doesn't really get at what I was saying. I know CivGeneral was agonistic before, and what he (effectively) said was that he started beliefing in God to fill his life. Thats what i'm questioning.

Well, if the Creator exists then it couldn't be created could it? If the Creator was created by something- What created the Creator? That's why I believe in God, to completely avoid that question.

Believing something to avoid questions is very restrictive of the human mind.

 

[Sidhe]

I don't see how filling your life with religion is any better than fillign it with friendships or women or even computer games!

That's why communists called religion the opiate of the masses, people were eased molified and relaxed when partaking of it. I too have more important things to occupy my time, in short I currently have no time for relgion. I get my opiates from another source, it's not better necessarily it's just different.

Believing something to avoid questions is very restrictive of the human mind.

This is why fundamentalism leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to me it's just shy of brainwashing and in some cases actually crosses the line. Anything that restricts you from questioning your beliefs is disasterous IMO, it's a good job the bible encourages you to question what it is you believe and a bad job that some people think the opposite is true

 

[Narz]

I don't.

 

[Kozmos]

I'm still waiting for Gawd to launch Fireball Extreme Miracle over my house to prove his existence.

 

[Elrohir]

-But I like having sex without marriage, it is fun. As are drugs. And my reference towards rock n roll was all those fundamentalists who rant and rave against Marilyn Manson and so forth. So any God that frown on those things I do not feel deserves worship, it's quite sadistic to 'create' these things then not let me enjoy them!

Things can be fun, but still be bad for us. It would be fun to eat nothing but steak and cheeseburgers, three meals a day, every day. Wouldn't it? I think it would - right up until I died of a heart attack by my 25th birthday. God cares about you, and because He does, He tells you not to do things that aren't good for you to do.

Do you really think doing drugs is a smart decision? It hurts your body, and that's not opinion, that's a medical fact.

-I could just counter that you should try and wrap your mind around that the universe 'just was' or whatever, that isn't a very good argument.

And "the universe just was" is a better argument? I don't think so. I can't see how something as vast as the universe is just came into being by itself.

As for your question about who created God, it's like this: You say God must have been created by someone - but that assumes causation, that there was one thing, then there was something different. That implies the passage of time. But before God created the universe, there was no time - and thus no causation, or creation. Before the universe was created, it was only God, for the simple reason that without time, you can't have a series of events, like the creation of something.

-That logic makes sense, but doesn't really get at what I was saying. I know CivGeneral was agonistic before, and what he (effectively) said was that he started beliefing in God to fill his life. Thats what i'm questioning.

If God exists, (As CivGeneral and I believe) why would it be wrong to fill our lives with His love and His work? You start from the assumption that he doesn't exist, and then question why we act the way we do. I suggest you try looking at it from the opposite view, that God does exist, then maybe our actions will make a lot more sense.

 

[civ2]

1. I believe in God because I do. Basically, belief itself is "illogical" or it's not really a belief anymore.
2. Concerning Judaism, it's not fairly a "one-day-in-a-week" religion - it permeats the very life of a Jew.
Judaism has laws concerning EVERY part of life - this adds to other meanings of "Torah is our life".
Religion isn't a "leisure activity" as most people assume - it's the very way of life!
And until you at least try to live like that - you won't understand what "religious" people feel.
Period.

 

[CurtSibling]

I think you'll find most people with strong convictions (be they religious or not) live their ideals very seriously.

I know I do - Atheism to me, is not just for shock value.
What you see here, is what I am in the real world also.

I am ultra-hardline about everything in my life.
It is tough, and you end up with few friends...

But that is the road I choose.

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