Earthman
Chieftain
I take it that most modern Turks are actually descendents of Byzantine Greeks.
And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???
I take it that most modern Turks are actually descendents of Byzantine Greeks.
And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???
So, making up a past and overlooking horrors is a good method of nation-building? Sounds like Atatürk's erasing of the earlyThat is a very unfair attack of Smellincoffee, since to me it very much seems that myths are the standard of establishing collective identities. Or probably even individual identities. And I think it a too quick conclusion that because they are not really or at all true that they are hence somehow fundamentally "evil" or something like that. Identities are essentially myths after all. But identities can make people or societies better. Or worse. Depending.
Smellincoffee seems to think that the myth he refers to fosters a beneficial identity.
And Greeks as well.Probably.And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???
That is exactly what I said.So, making up a past and overlooking horrors is a good method of nation-building?
That is exactly what I said.
No actually, I was more thinking in terms of values and virtues rather than out-right rewriting of history. Smellincoffee himself talked of it being a myth. That suggests that historical fact isn't his main concern. Denying a genocide is concerned with historical fact. Claiming that the British Empire was good for the world is concerned with historical fact.
The French quickly take it to the streets because their national myth is that this is what French people successfully do. Doesn't matter in the end how true that is. The believe in it counts.
Yes, we can.
It was a creed written into the founding documents that declared the destiny of a nation: Yes, we can.
It was whispered by slaves and abolitionists as they blazed a trail towards freedom through the darkest of nights: Yes, we can.
It was sung by immigrants as they struck out from distant shores and pioneers who pushed westward against an unforgiving wilderness: Yes, we can.
It was the call of workers who organized, women who reached for the ballot, a president who chose the moon as our new frontier, and a king who took us to the mountaintop and pointed the way to the promised land: Yes, we can, to justice and equality.
Yes, we can, to opportunity and prosperity. Yes, we can heal this nation. Yes, we can repair this world. Yes, we can.
I'm not lost, I know perfectly well where I am.