Eurocentrism

[Earthman]

I take it that most modern Turks are actually descendents of Byzantine Greeks.

And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???

 

[Tahuti]

And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???

Probably.

 

[Takhisis]

That is a very unfair attack of Smellincoffee, since to me it very much seems that myths are the standard of establishing collective identities. Or probably even individual identities. And I think it a too quick conclusion that because they are not really or at all true that they are hence somehow fundamentally "evil" or something like that. Identities are essentially myths after all. But identities can make people or societies better. Or worse. Depending.
Smellincoffee seems to think that the myth he refers to fosters a beneficial identity.

So, making up a past and overlooking horrors is a good method of nation-building? Sounds like Atatürk's erasing of the early nineteenth twentieth century genocides form Turkish textbooks, or the British Empire insisting -to this day- that they were doing good across the world, with Cameron insisting that he's proud of British history and the Empire.

And Byzantine Greeks were descendants of... ??? Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians, etc. ???

Probably.

And Greeks as well.

 

[Kyriakos]

^'early 20th century genocides', to be exact

 

[Takhisis]

Fixed, thanks.

 

[Kyriakos]

Don't thank me. Just answer your pms

 

[Takhisis]

Classic example of Eurocentrism, European poster demanding attention.

 

[Kyriakos]

You are European too, remember?
Just lost in the Pampa currently :\

 

[Takhisis]

I'm not lost, I know perfectly well where I am.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

So, making up a past and overlooking horrors is a good method of nation-building?

That is exactly what I said.

No actually, I was more thinking in terms of values and virtues rather than out-right rewriting of history. Smellincoffe himself talked of it being a myth. That suggests that historical fact isn't his main concern. Denying a genocide is concerned with historical fact. Claiming that the British Empire was good for the world is concerned with historical fact.
The French quickly take it to the streets because their national myth is that this is what French people successfully do. Doesn't matter in the end how true that is. The believe in it counts.

 

[Smellincoffee]

That is exactly what I said.

No actually, I was more thinking in terms of values and virtues rather than out-right rewriting of history. Smellincoffee himself talked of it being a myth. That suggests that historical fact isn't his main concern. Denying a genocide is concerned with historical fact. Claiming that the British Empire was good for the world is concerned with historical fact.
The French quickly take it to the streets because their national myth is that this is what French people successfully do. Doesn't matter in the end how true that is. The believe in it counts.

Exactly; every coherent people has a myth, a story to give them an idea of who they are and what they're about. The best modern delivery I've heard of the American myth, for instance, was delivered by President Obama in his "Yes, we can" speech. He took stock of all of American history and turned it into a simple, powerful story:

Yes, we can.

It was a creed written into the founding documents that declared the destiny of a nation: Yes, we can.

It was whispered by slaves and abolitionists as they blazed a trail towards freedom through the darkest of nights: Yes, we can.

It was sung by immigrants as they struck out from distant shores and pioneers who pushed westward against an unforgiving wilderness: Yes, we can.

It was the call of workers who organized, women who reached for the ballot, a president who chose the moon as our new frontier, and a king who took us to the mountaintop and pointed the way to the promised land: Yes, we can, to justice and equality.

Yes, we can, to opportunity and prosperity. Yes, we can heal this nation. Yes, we can repair this world. Yes, we can.

In this you have the story of the colonial founding, the struggles to make an independent nation, still carrying the baggage of its own history with slavery and legalized racism; coping with the problems caused by charging boldly into the industrial future, but not regretting them, the expansion of democracy, the belief in technological triumph -- all of these events and institutions separate from one another in time -- are linked, woven together with a thread of imagination that gives that story power. You don't have to agree with Obama's politics to recognize the significance of what he's offering. Sure, other politicians have soared to power through myth -- Lenin and Hitler -- but my point is that myth is ubiquitous. Humans are storytellers, and we won't get away from it. This is hard for the modern mind to appreciate, considering that we have corroded myth so that it's a synonym for 'lie'.

 

[Kyriakos]

I'm not lost, I know perfectly well where I am.

"I know who i am..."

"Shhhh... Johnny..."

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