Odd thing is, I agree with everything you said and I still think it is an awesome game...
Europa Universalis IV
- Thread starter MoreEpicThanYou
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Odd thing is, I agree with everything you said and I still think it is an awesome game...
GAGA Extrem
Emperor
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...meh, maybe I already had my fill from EU3 or the beta.
Guess I had hoped that they would advance the series. But instead we got a big reiteration of the series with only partial innovation. For example, having the old EU3 combat system after seeing the awesome mechanic from CK2 is just sad. We have the same buildings - and some of them are still completely and utterly useless.
...but maybe that is the real problem: CK2 had a lot of cool new stuff and nothing got carried over to EU4. So much wasted potential.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
EU4 is much more challenging than EU3 ever was. I don't know why people complain about the A.I being better. It think it is absolutely fun to not win all the times.
1598, Muscovy to Russia. The Ottomans are nigh unstoppable and have most of central Asia under their protection. Life is difficult for the Yekaterina I. She has been Queen of Russia since she turned 5. I changed government types to admin monarchy while she was a minor to roleplay a coup. It has been pretty fun. She's in her 50's now and the empire has doubled in size and quintupled in power under her.
Note: Yemeni superpower. Epic Hansa.
1598, Muscovy to Russia. The Ottomans are nigh unstoppable and have most of central Asia under their protection. Life is difficult for the Yekaterina I. She has been Queen of Russia since she turned 5. I changed government types to admin monarchy while she was a minor to roleplay a coup. It has been pretty fun. She's in her 50's now and the empire has doubled in size and quintupled in power under her.
Note: Yemeni superpower. Epic Hansa.
Spoiler :
GAGA Extrem
Emperor
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Yeah, the better AI is one of the more subtle changes that actually have a very large impact on the game.
I guess most of the difficulty complains come from people who dislike the new coalition / overextension mechanic and are used to steamrolling / mass annexing from EU3. Are these mechanics arbitrary? Yes. Are they better than EU3? YES!
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I see the point in a lot of your criticisms, GAGA Extrem. You're right that in a lot of cases you can more or less do things "instantly" or nearly so in EUIV if you so desire. I guess I haven't found that to be an issue because, at least so far, I've not had any need to and thus haven't. I've by and large played war exhaustion the old way, letting it decline slowly (particularly once I got the Optimism idea), and when Austria was getting hammered and spending diplo points to reduce exhaustion, the effect on their diplomatic tech became noticeable. And while yes, with the economic idea your could take direct action to reduce inflation (and perhaps allowing that isn't a great idea), you still have to pursue that path (idea group) in the first place.
The potential for weakening military via military ideas is an interesting one. I considered that during my game, and in the end I think it's another one of those decisions. At some times, yes, going for the tech will be an obvious choice, but I don't think it's always so clear-cut. Maybe this could be alleviated by getting some bonus just for choosing an idea group. But I don't feel it's really necessary at this point.
So far, I disagree with the lack of long-term planning, however. I think choosing idea groups really can impact long-term planning. As a relatively small country (now mid-sized), I found myself carefully weighing the impact of going for the Diplomatic Ideas versus military ideas, and later whether I could afford Economic Ideas or should perhaps go Defensive, etc. With strong rivals, it mattered. True, my choices were at times impacted by, for example, a surplus of military points, even though as a Republic I rarely had a military-favoring ruler. But there definitely was long-term investment. And I think rebels are more interesting than in EU3. I've seen a lot more cases where there are enough rebels that you either have to accept their demands/let them enforce them, or commit serious resources to fighting them (which may not always be realistic). Do they matter as much as Vicky2 or CKII? Perhaps not, but as someone who's mostly played EU3, they are more potent. I've definitely had significant internal struggle during the Reformation. IMO diplomatic actions also tend to have longer-term effects in EU4 than EU3. Declining a call to arms no longer just means -25 prestige, but -25 prestige and a very difficult time getting that country to realign with you anytime soon, for example. Sliders were long-term in EU3, but as you said were terribly balanced. Unless I was role-playing, I don't know why I would have chosen +1 Serfdom over -1 Stability in EU3, barring my country absolutely falling apart as it was. And maybe this will change as I play EUIV more, but I have occasionally chosen to lose monarch points in events where I didn't have to.
My story has progressed to circa 1648. In the late 1500s I finally overcome Austria, having become stronger from conquering Tuscany and taking advantage of Austria's other wars, and by 1610 my northeast border is peaceful. In the interim, circa 1560, I try going Protestant, and nearly immediately realize the errors of my ways as there's no way I can fight the rebellions. Fortunately I'm able to accept the demands of some Catholic rebels, return to the Church, and limit the damage.
The early 1600s see sparring with Spain, who has reduced France to being less powerful than myself. Though I lose significant armies in the process, in the end Spain leaves too few troops at home, and a coalition of myself, Algiers, the Mamluks, and all their neighbors save Portugal are able to inflict a defeat on them and, for the time being, stop their expansionistic ways in Europe. There also some epic naval battles at Malta and the Balaeres in the process, with the Mamluks and Algerians helping me to duel Spain. The climactic battle saw 56 Spanish ships, with many Galleons, dueling 146 allied ships, primarily Galleys with some small ships, and in the end, the destruction of the Spanish fleet that we'd battled off and on for several years. The Armada was defeated, and not too long afterwards Spain would be defeated.
Around 1632 I had a large Protestant uprising, comprising some 65,000 troops - more than double the size of my standing army. Although I likely could have defeated them, it would have been quite costly, so in the end I decided to let them enforce their demands (saving myself -50 prestige), and try to make the -10% idea cost and +10% taxes make up for conversion. By 1638, I was seriously questioning this move, and quite nearly went back to Catholicism again when I resumed the game. However, I now believe that everything will work out in the end. And if it doesn't, well, we can always try going back to Catholicism...
Algiers is my staunchest ally currently, having been allied for about 80 years (including 60 before the alliance auto-broke when I changed religions - I'm not sure why a Sunni country should really care, but they renewed the alliance right away, so no significant harm). Bremen is my new Protestant ally. But perhaps my most interesting ally is Mali, who I initially allied with after the Spanish war to discourage Spain from fighting them again (Mali had actually made a contribution in that war - they had over 90,000 rebels during the war, who bottled up 20,000 Spanish troops deep in Malinese territory). Just a few months ago, Mali started westernizing. I'm not sure quite what caused them to do so, but I'm certainly hopeful that it will help them resist the Spanish in the future, and have sent an army over to help them against the reactionaries. What started as an alliance where I didn't expect to get much in return may end up working out both ways after all. It's also noteworthy since I pretty much never saw AI westernization in EU3.
The potential for weakening military via military ideas is an interesting one. I considered that during my game, and in the end I think it's another one of those decisions. At some times, yes, going for the tech will be an obvious choice, but I don't think it's always so clear-cut. Maybe this could be alleviated by getting some bonus just for choosing an idea group. But I don't feel it's really necessary at this point.
So far, I disagree with the lack of long-term planning, however. I think choosing idea groups really can impact long-term planning. As a relatively small country (now mid-sized), I found myself carefully weighing the impact of going for the Diplomatic Ideas versus military ideas, and later whether I could afford Economic Ideas or should perhaps go Defensive, etc. With strong rivals, it mattered. True, my choices were at times impacted by, for example, a surplus of military points, even though as a Republic I rarely had a military-favoring ruler. But there definitely was long-term investment. And I think rebels are more interesting than in EU3. I've seen a lot more cases where there are enough rebels that you either have to accept their demands/let them enforce them, or commit serious resources to fighting them (which may not always be realistic). Do they matter as much as Vicky2 or CKII? Perhaps not, but as someone who's mostly played EU3, they are more potent. I've definitely had significant internal struggle during the Reformation. IMO diplomatic actions also tend to have longer-term effects in EU4 than EU3. Declining a call to arms no longer just means -25 prestige, but -25 prestige and a very difficult time getting that country to realign with you anytime soon, for example. Sliders were long-term in EU3, but as you said were terribly balanced. Unless I was role-playing, I don't know why I would have chosen +1 Serfdom over -1 Stability in EU3, barring my country absolutely falling apart as it was. And maybe this will change as I play EUIV more, but I have occasionally chosen to lose monarch points in events where I didn't have to.
My story has progressed to circa 1648. In the late 1500s I finally overcome Austria, having become stronger from conquering Tuscany and taking advantage of Austria's other wars, and by 1610 my northeast border is peaceful. In the interim, circa 1560, I try going Protestant, and nearly immediately realize the errors of my ways as there's no way I can fight the rebellions. Fortunately I'm able to accept the demands of some Catholic rebels, return to the Church, and limit the damage.
The early 1600s see sparring with Spain, who has reduced France to being less powerful than myself. Though I lose significant armies in the process, in the end Spain leaves too few troops at home, and a coalition of myself, Algiers, the Mamluks, and all their neighbors save Portugal are able to inflict a defeat on them and, for the time being, stop their expansionistic ways in Europe. There also some epic naval battles at Malta and the Balaeres in the process, with the Mamluks and Algerians helping me to duel Spain. The climactic battle saw 56 Spanish ships, with many Galleons, dueling 146 allied ships, primarily Galleys with some small ships, and in the end, the destruction of the Spanish fleet that we'd battled off and on for several years. The Armada was defeated, and not too long afterwards Spain would be defeated.
Around 1632 I had a large Protestant uprising, comprising some 65,000 troops - more than double the size of my standing army. Although I likely could have defeated them, it would have been quite costly, so in the end I decided to let them enforce their demands (saving myself -50 prestige), and try to make the -10% idea cost and +10% taxes make up for conversion. By 1638, I was seriously questioning this move, and quite nearly went back to Catholicism again when I resumed the game. However, I now believe that everything will work out in the end. And if it doesn't, well, we can always try going back to Catholicism...
Algiers is my staunchest ally currently, having been allied for about 80 years (including 60 before the alliance auto-broke when I changed religions - I'm not sure why a Sunni country should really care, but they renewed the alliance right away, so no significant harm). Bremen is my new Protestant ally. But perhaps my most interesting ally is Mali, who I initially allied with after the Spanish war to discourage Spain from fighting them again (Mali had actually made a contribution in that war - they had over 90,000 rebels during the war, who bottled up 20,000 Spanish troops deep in Malinese territory). Just a few months ago, Mali started westernizing. I'm not sure quite what caused them to do so, but I'm certainly hopeful that it will help them resist the Spanish in the future, and have sent an army over to help them against the reactionaries. What started as an alliance where I didn't expect to get much in return may end up working out both ways after all. It's also noteworthy since I pretty much never saw AI westernization in EU3.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
1732 in my Russia game. I helped formed the HRE in a massive war in 1707-1711. HRE formed in April 1712. The last Habsburg died in 1713. Russia inherits. The personal union is basically giving me free reign over the world. Combined our armies are capable of fighting all of Europe with a hundred thousand to spare. This power means I can finally challenge the Ottomans and take out Crimea piece by piece. There is some form of super crusade going on right now with France, Spain, Bohemia, Poland, Sweden, etc. all gangbanging the Levant.
Spoiler :
Civ'ed
I ain't gotta explain a thing
Savoy, no?
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Thanks very much!
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
It looks more like a sleeping pony or a rabbit IMO.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
My Brunei game in Opposite Day Mod. It is trippy as all hell. The changed up tech groups really is going to make late game interesting. It is 1484.
Spoiler :
Samez
Emperor
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- Jan 31, 2005
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Brunei can be a lot of fun! Close to the end my game looked like this:
England lost the 100 years war quite fast against the invading Scots. France is really strong and Spain expanded super fast so I had to take a lot of territories from them in the new world.
India and China are each in a constant independence/reunification war loop.
Korea had been conquered by Japan for several centuries but their overextension into Manchuria led to a recreation of Korea...
Spoiler :
England lost the 100 years war quite fast against the invading Scots. France is really strong and Spain expanded super fast so I had to take a lot of territories from them in the new world.
India and China are each in a constant independence/reunification war loop.
Korea had been conquered by Japan for several centuries but their overextension into Manchuria led to a recreation of Korea...
Who's purple?
Brunei
He started in Indonesia (well, north of it, in a bit of Borneo) and colonised America.
Civ'ed
I ain't gotta explain a thing
Malaya, the Indonesian archipelago's formable nation.
grandad1982
Deity
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- Dec 4, 2007
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- 2,552
In the latest dev diary for CoP there is a screen with a tick box on an army called "Attach to this unit?".
Thank god!
Thank god!
PhilBowles
Deity
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- Nov 20, 2011
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- 5,333
Brunei
He started in Indonesia (well, north of it, in a bit of Borneo) and colonised America.
I've just found the hook that's going to prompt me to finally play EU IV...
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I'm hedging my bets of a deep sale this Christmas or in January when the DLC comes out.
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