Existence of God (split from old thread)

[Valka D'Ur]

I am warpus, shatterer of small plates, conqueror of Whomp's boat (RIP).

Okay, there's a story in this that I don't recall hearing about. What did you do to Whomp's boat?

I would say the Internet is the first thing humans produced that is infinite. Perhaps at one point it was finite, but now it encircles the earth without beginning or end.

If it's infinite, I should be able to email with someone in another galaxy, if not farther (never mind relativity or the fact that we don't have subspace communications).

What makes you say injury or disease rob us of our self? We're still here even if we're sick.

Watch your best-loved relative die of Alzheimers and say that. My grandmother became a different person, and she didn't know anyone. My mother died not long after the cancer that was killing the rest of her body finally spread to her brain. She didn't know who she was, let alone anyone else.

My dad has dementia. His basic personality - that of a friendly guy who has a somewhat sly sense of humor, is a bit shy when it comes to flirting (even 80-year-old women in nursing homes have flirted with him and his face was red as a beet when I explained that to him), likes animals and reading - is still there. But he doesn't remember anyone he ever knew in his past life, other than me. He can't discuss news or sports, can't do any of the things he was good at, and has a very short memory span.

I will say that there are a couple of positives: He can't remember ever being addicted to tobacco, or being an alcoholic. He's got no curiosity about these addictions, no desire to try. Even so, I've left instructions that he is never to be around anyone who is smoking, and is never to be offered a drink (some facilities relax the rules on holidays and on picnics and allow residents a drink).

 

[timtofly]

Because you and I cannot see the infinite self. We only deal in the finite, and I am not talking about the soul either. There seems to be a conflation between the ability to express one's self and the loss of material brain matter. That does not change the "you". It only changes the personality. We are not ghost lost on the machine. We are an infinite recycling of memories and experiences, that relies on the machine to experience more memories as we interact with the rest of the universe.

The finite aspect is wrapped up in loss and termination of matter. Historically it has been referred to as consciousness or unconsciousness. We do not cease to be, because we still exist in an unconscious state. As pointed out, it is hard to prove if we exist after this body dies.

Anything is only infinite as long as we have not observed the finite end to it. Sure it is possible to figure out the finite end to the Internet if we dismantled and took into account every last part of it. That would be the same if we applied that to the universe. Which seems to be the only example of something infinite. Math is just an abstract thought, so it does not count. Unless you feel you are just a math equation.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

The connotation that it doesn't exist, yes. If we're having a conversation about the soul then we're going to need more than a quantification of what's infinite in the self. We'll first need evidence that the soul exists.

You dont need evidence before you can discuss anything. That is an absurd statement. In fact almost the opposite is true. We are psychologicaly and mentaly wired up so that we can use instincts, imagination, believes, intuition etc. - non of these has anything to do with an evidence. They are either self-evident or self-sufficient in themselves. Just becouse we can envision infinite and infinite existence it is enough for a honest thinker to take it seriously into an account.

 

[civver_764]

The connotation that it doesn't exist, yes. If we're having a conversation about the soul then we're going to need more than a quantification of what's infinite in the self. We'll first need evidence that the soul exists.

I don't want to talk about the soul then. I'm just talking about you. We don't need evidence that you exist, right? Surely it's obvious.

 

[warpus]

It is unattainable, that's the point. What you are can't really be talked about, because it's the basis for everything.

The totality of your posts in this thread make 0 sense.

Again, if my memories aren't a part of me, then what is?

Okay, there's a story in this that I don't recall hearing about. What did you do to Whomp's boat?

There is a picture of me standing on top of it looking like a boss. "Conqueror" is an exaggeration.

We also had to "break into it" (with Whomp's blessing) because we got locked out.

 

[civver_764]

Again, if my memories aren't a part of me, then what is?

I have no answer for you. You've gotta consider this question for yourself. Who are you, really?

 

[warpus]

If you have no answer to that question, what are you doing disputing things I am saying about it?

 

[civver_764]

I'm just playing a game with you.

 

[warpus]

You lost an argument and you take this way out? I see.

At least admit that you're wrong and move on. Sheesh.

 

[civver_764]

Wrong about what?

 

[Berzerker]

who, who...who are you... who, who

I'm an owl

 

[warpus]

Everything

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Everything

Not being to able present satisfactory evidence in line of thought which is as old as the beginning of a thinking man and being wrong about everything isnt the same thing. Lol.

 

[warpus]

Not being able to answer any questions given in any sort of way or give any sort of examples to back up your assertions = being wrong about everything and playing a game

 

[civver_764]

Note however that you were unable to show that "you" are something finite. The purpose of the game was to demonstrate that.

 

[timtofly]

Not being able to answer any questions given in any sort of way or give any sort of examples to back up your assertions = being wrong about everything and playing a game

Is pork infinite?

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, 'you' have a beginning and an end.
You have obvious deficits in every faculty you value.
Your cognition is limited by your previous experience as well as inbuilt limitations.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Well, 'you' have a beginning and an end.
You have obvious deficits in every faculty you value.
Your cognition is limited by your previous experience as well as inbuilt limitations.

Unfortunately we havent been able to even define what 'you' or 'I' really is/stands for. Our physical body is definitely finite in a way our senses concieve of it but our intellect is already presenting us with different possibilities. Just like our senses are unable on its own to fathom true reality of matter...

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Not being able to answer any questions given in any sort of way or give any sort of examples to back up your assertions = being wrong about everything and playing a game

I give you an example that you are infinite if you present me with the proof that matter is in fact finite.

 

[warpus]

I give you an example that you are infinite if you present me with the proof that matter is in fact finite.

You would have to clarify what exactly you mean by "matter is finite"