Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I've noticed that too, although I don't know why. You might have to manually delete it? It's a relatively minor effect so I never got around to checking more than whether or not it shows up on the list of effects.
Fall Further Plus
- Thread starter Valkrionn
- Start date
Found a post from Xienwolf listing several promotions (including food sacrifice) that are written but do not work yet so that must be it.
xienwolf
Deity
Yeah, all of the Great person simulating tags (food and population add are 2 of them) and pretty much all of the Collateral damage related tags exist, but don't do squat (they'd be handy for people wanting to test things in Python for the time being though, since they should be exposed and all)
This should be a complete list of what exists but don't do squat:
iCollateralLimitCap
iCollateralLimitBoost
iCollateralTargetsLimit
iCollateralExtraTargets
iHammerSacrifice
iExtraHammerPerPop
iFoodSacrifice
iPopulationAdd
iBeakerSacrifice
iExtraBeakerPerPop
iGoldSacrifice
iExtraGoldPerPop
iCultureSacrifice
iExtraCulturePerPop
iChanceDieInCombat
iXPTranserRate
This should be a complete list of what exists but don't do squat:
iCollateralLimitCap
iCollateralLimitBoost
iCollateralTargetsLimit
iCollateralExtraTargets
iHammerSacrifice
iExtraHammerPerPop
iFoodSacrifice
iPopulationAdd
iBeakerSacrifice
iExtraBeakerPerPop
iGoldSacrifice
iExtraGoldPerPop
iCultureSacrifice
iExtraCulturePerPop
iChanceDieInCombat
iXPTranserRate
I'm not sure why they couldn't build a tax collector.. Or why Falamar declared on you.
The D'teshi hero is actually Lord D'tesh, on Arcane Lore I believe. The Arcane line is where you want to be.
:
I definitely had Arcane Lore researched as I got the free Great Sage from that. Lord d'Tesh was not available there.
I had a few Binders which I promoted and didn't see anything special in the Arcane line for the d'Tesh. I'm wondering what I missed there. I didn't make it far enough for them to become Archmages, though, so maybe that was it.
Honestly, for the civ to have only one 'interesting' line of units doesn't say much. I would say the recon line is the way to go as they DO gain XP/promotions and are invisible - although that can take some getting used to.
All I'm saying is that if my civ (Scions/Korinna) and an AI civ (let's say Sheaim) both have a Great Prophet and both have the same techs already researched, the bulb should not come up Philosophy for me and Ways of the Earthmother for the Sheaim. If there is an Agnostic civ in the picture I get it, but this is not the case.
Where's the flavor in the Sheaim founding ROK? It sorta ruins the game IMO.
Also, if I have Philosophy, I will get a bulb for Priesthood. This also doesn't make sense because I don't yet have a religion and FOL and OO are available to bulb, but I get Priesthood.
Founding a religion early in the game can be a huge boost as other civs will readily adopt it and likely keep it the whole game. In the example I gave of the Sheaim founding ROK at Turn 85/Epic from bulbing a Great Prophet, it allowed them to just dominate. And, it pretty much removed the possibility of AV from the game too.
Maybe somehow the possibility of bulbing the founding of a religion should be removed from the game for ALL civs to help the balance here.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Sorry, Strength of Will. Just checked. 
As for the Arcane Line, the Binder is 4 Strength (2, +2 Death combat), the Chosen is the same with +1 Death Affinity, and the Council is 6 Strength (3, +3 Death), with 1 Death AND Shadow Affinity. To add to that, their melee units all have a death affinity... So by hoarding death mana, you will have very strong mages and str 10 warriors.
They may not be able to gain xp, but for throwaway units they're amazing.
As for the bulbing, after what Xienwolf said it's not something I want to mess with. It aggravates me too, but the flavors are used by the AI to decide what to research... Not going to screw the AI just to get bulb paths that make sense.
As for the Arcane Line, the Binder is 4 Strength (2, +2 Death combat), the Chosen is the same with +1 Death Affinity, and the Council is 6 Strength (3, +3 Death), with 1 Death AND Shadow Affinity. To add to that, their melee units all have a death affinity... So by hoarding death mana, you will have very strong mages and str 10 warriors.
They may not be able to gain xp, but for throwaway units they're amazing.As for the bulbing, after what Xienwolf said it's not something I want to mess with. It aggravates me too, but the flavors are used by the AI to decide what to research... Not going to screw the AI just to get bulb paths that make sense.
xienwolf
Deity
All I'm saying is that if my civ (Scions/Korinna) and an AI civ (let's say Sheaim) both have a Great Prophet and both have the same techs already researched, the bulb should not come up Philosophy for me and Ways of the Earthmother for the Sheaim. If there is an Agnostic civ in the picture I get it, but this is not the case.
Where's the flavor in the Sheaim founding ROK? It sorta ruins the game IMO.
Also, if I have Philosophy, I will get a bulb for Priesthood. This also doesn't make sense because I don't yet have a religion and FOL and OO are available to bulb, but I get Priesthood.
Founding a religion early in the game can be a huge boost as other civs will readily adopt it and likely keep it the whole game. In the example I gave of the Sheaim founding ROK at Turn 85/Epic from bulbing a Great Prophet, it allowed them to just dominate. And, it pretty much removed the possibility of AV from the game too.
Maybe somehow the possibility of bulbing the founding of a religion should be removed from the game for ALL civs to help the balance here.
All I'm saying is that if you did have the exact same techs, it is impossible for them to get anything different than you did with the same great person type EXCEPT in the case that you are offered a religion, then if they are agnostic, or it would change their Alignment (there is a python block to stop the AI researching something that changes their alignment). So if they got a religion and you weren't offered one, they had different techs, or a different Great Person.
If you really want the religions to be first pick when available, multiply all of their flavor values by 10. Might gimp the AI a little bit as they'd rush to get any religion they are able to, but with the "nothing that changes alignment" restriction on them that isn't too many, so won't hurt too bad.
Note: When I say flavor I don't mean Lore, I mean the <Flavor> fields in XML.
far_wanderer
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 454
So is the Sheaim researching RoK a bug, then? Because I've also seen Jonas and Faeryl do the same thing.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I don't think so. Rather unexpected, but not a bug.
xienwolf, I am 100% sure they got a Great Prophet and popped ROK (how could a different type of GP bulb a religion?). When they did that, I had a Great Prophet I got from an event .
I wanted to see if I could bulb a religion, even FOL or OO, but Philosophy was my choice. As I said, I researched that, and Priesthood was my choice. Does giving Priesthood as a choice when you have no religion make any sense to you?
I guess it is possible that the Sheaim had Philosophy and Priesthood somehow, but it is very unlikely.
Of course, this works both ways sometimes. I started a new game to see how this worked with a different civ. Playing as Svartalfar, I got a Great Prophet from an event for Gold and bulbed FOL even earlier on Turn 72. Again, I didn't have Philosophy or Priesthood.
Maybe that does make more sense - FOL for the bad elves than ROK for the Sheaim, but I'm still of the opinion that founding a religion with a GP should be blocked for ALL civs.
Sorry, Strength of Will. Just checked.
As for the Arcane Line, the Binder is 4 Strength (2, +2 Death combat), the Chosen is the same with +1 Death Affinity, and the Council is 6 Strength (3, +3 Death), with 1 Death AND Shadow Affinity. To add to that, their melee units all have a death affinity... So by hoarding death mana, you will have very strong mages and str 10 warriors.
As for the bulbing, after what Xienwolf said it's not something I want to mess with. It aggravates me too, but the flavors are used by the AI to decide what to research... Not going to screw the AI just to get bulb paths that make sense.
Are the Chosen the d'Tesh mages? If so, I did get some of those, but like all mages it was hard getting them XP in combat. Also, I played with the option that wired the mana type and had mana, but no Death mana to help with the affinity. It was not possible to hoard Death mana.
I never got to see what the Council was.
Maybe I'll give 'em another try some time with the strategies you are mentioning. Thank you.
One thing I am noticing in FF+ is that the AI has a tendency to defend Goblin forts (see screenshot for one example). Is this intended? If so, it is a bit bizarre as often I see the barbs take a city and then just march out leaving it open for the losing civ to come back and take it. If they didn't want the city, shouldn't they just raze it rather than wandering off and not defending it?
Also, I've noticed the Treetop Defense spell is not working in FF+.
Also, I've noticed the Treetop Defense spell is not working in FF+.
Attachments
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Yeah, Wild Mana doesn't play well with the D'tesh, unless you get a metamagic node. With enough death mana though, it becomes VERY easy to level their mages. And yes, the chosen is the mage and the council of four is the Archmage.
Nothing I touched for the barbs... Think I saw a complaint about that in FF as well?
I'll check the treetop defense spell..... I didn't mess with it, but I might have accidentally broken it somewhere.
xienwolf
Deity
It makes perfect sense that you can get Priesthood and Philosophy before a religion, because that is how the values for their weights work out. Does it make sense in terms of considering the progression of the knowledge of a collection of actual people? Dunno, don't care. All I know is the numbers.
Assuming we haven't changed the values at all from when I last did the manual for base FfH:
Way of the EarthMother can be bulbed by: Great Engineer (48th of 75 techs he can bulb), Great Merchant (70th of 72 techs for him) and Great Prophet (8th of the techs for him)
For a Great Prophet, this is the order in which he will grant you techs, always granting the first in the list which you are capable of researching at the time:
Remember, these values are from base FfH, back on 040 patch N. So if the flavor values of the technologies OR the great people are different in FF, then our order would be different. But according to this list, if you are able to learn Priesthood then the ONLY other tech a Great Prophet would consider bulbing instead would be Corruption of Spirit. The only religion which will not bulb before Philosophy would be Order, IF you are able to research both Philosophy and the other religion at the time. So if it offered you Philosophy instead of a religion, either you were missing some prereqs you didn't realize at the time, or our numbers are just different. I don't have the time to parse everything into an Excel spreadsheet and have it sort the numbers for me, but I've told you how to do the equations so if you are really interested in knowing the precise order and finding how to get it to work the way you think best with small +/- 1 changes that won't affect anything else... feel free.
Assuming we haven't changed the values at all from when I last did the manual for base FfH:
Way of the EarthMother can be bulbed by: Great Engineer (48th of 75 techs he can bulb), Great Merchant (70th of 72 techs for him) and Great Prophet (8th of the techs for him)
For a Great Prophet, this is the order in which he will grant you techs, always granting the first in the list which you are capable of researching at the time:
Remember, these values are from base FfH, back on 040 patch N. So if the flavor values of the technologies OR the great people are different in FF, then our order would be different. But according to this list, if you are able to learn Priesthood then the ONLY other tech a Great Prophet would consider bulbing instead would be Corruption of Spirit. The only religion which will not bulb before Philosophy would be Order, IF you are able to research both Philosophy and the other religion at the time. So if it offered you Philosophy instead of a religion, either you were missing some prereqs you didn't realize at the time, or our numbers are just different. I don't have the time to parse everything into an Excel spreadsheet and have it sort the numbers for me, but I've told you how to do the equations so if you are really interested in knowing the precise order and finding how to get it to work the way you think best with small +/- 1 changes that won't affect anything else... feel free.
Yeah, Wild Mana doesn't play well with the D'tesh, unless you get a metamagic node. With enough death mana though, it becomes VERY easy to level their mages. And yes, the chosen is the mage and the council of four is the Archmage.
Nothing I touched for the barbs... Think I saw a complaint about that in FF as well?
I'll check the treetop defense spell..... I didn't mess with it, but I might have accidentally broken it somewhere.
I should have mentioned that the Treetop Defense is not working with the captured Elk I have. BTW, those are great to have with Haste and the Treetop Defense if it is working. Haste is working fine!
As always, thank you for the clarification on this xienwolf - I had no idea founding religions could be bulbed by a Great Engineer or Great Merchant.
Please forget the numbers for a moment please and consider the impact all this is having on game balance. For some reason, it is apparent (in my games anyway) that Great People are popping like wildfire. Whether it is the events, the lairs, or whatever, it just seems like there are more GPs in FF now. I think others have noticed this too and the numbers have been mentioned.
My point is if a Great Prophet is relatively easy to get AND a civ can bulb founding a religion very early in a game, it really does a number on the game. There have been other discussions on this in the forum. Once a civ gets ROK or FOL early on the whole world goes with that religion and stays with it. You don't see AV, Order or the 'minor' religions much at all. I think by eliminating or moving down or whatever the ability to bulb the founding of religions it would help.
It's true you will always have the pesky elves and dwarves who beeline those religions, but still it will take more time in the game than the bulbing.
I dunno, maybe it is fine the way it is - as I said, it can work to the human player's advantage too as I mentioned in my current game. But, I really think this change would help the overall balance of the game in terms of religion.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Ah, makes more sense then... I'll look at it.
WarKirby
Arty person
I think Lenora needs some cargo space.
Also, mechanos could do with a cargo airship in general. It's annoying to have to use normal Queens of the Line to be able to take troops places, when you have a fleet of airships.
Also, mechanos could do with a cargo airship in general. It's annoying to have to use normal Queens of the Line to be able to take troops places, when you have a fleet of airships.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Hmm. A cargo airship WOULD be nice, yes.
A cargo zeppelin would be cool.
My lord those airships are sweet though! Their ranged attack is nuts, I don't know if you need that much more carrying capacity considering they are so strong.
