Fall Further Plus

[Valkrionn]

Already decided to go with that one. Art is by Kekai Kotaki. Found the link in the FfH credits. He'll be in the (soon to be released) patch.

 

[WarKirby]

This is true, but the skull doesn't look nearly as good Black/Red. And I like that color scheme.

So do a black and red skull, then.

But I don't think red is a color that suits Dtesh. The Legion of Dtesh are pretty much about DEath magic. They want to turn the world into an empty, ashen wasteland. Red is more suitable for fiery demons, but I think monochrome suits dtesh best.

 

[Valkrionn]

Eh. I'll think about it... Either the new flag will go to D'tesh, or the Demons.

Also, the D'teshi can now build Corrupted Pastures on Horses, Cows, Bison, and Nightmares... Converts the resource to a Nightmare.

 

[deadliver]

Eh. I'll think about it... Either the new flag will go to D'tesh, or the Demons.

Also, the D'teshi can now build Corrupted Pastures on Horses, Cows, Bison, and Nightmares... Converts the resource to a Nightmare.

Aww that means that slaves have not other purpose than to be added to the main d'tesh cities (heh heh I meant capital). Reasonably, workers who destroy the terrain they work on (i.e. anything to desert) probably won't be able to tame the living creatures within the borders. Just makes sense. Of course I am the merely humble deadliver whilst you are the semi mighty Valkrionn, hater of slaves being able to perform duties that D'tesh's undead slaves cannot...(also you hate puppies and everything else that is cute).

 

[PPQ_Purple]

(also you hate puppies and everything else that is cute).

Who does not?

Also, any chance that the new art from FfH41 will get included into this?

 

[Sarisin]

Two last items from my d'Tesh game:

1. I was unable to build the Tax Collector building - I don't think that was documented anywhere, and I'm not sure why they cannot be built.

2. Incredibly I got a message that I "declared war on Falamar" out of the blue. I have no Defensive Pacts, Basium is not in the game, etc. I have no idea what caused this. Honestly, it would spell the end of a weak Falamar, but I had no intention of declaring war on him - our relations were Cautious. Is there something that causes the d'Tesh to declare war for no reason.

Anyway, I'm abandoning this game and this civ too. Some might find d'Tesh interesting, but, as I said, it just doesn't fit the way I like to play FF. The lack of XP/promotions for most units is just too much IMO. I never got to see if they have a hero or World Spell and I made it pretty far in the tech tree. If it wasn't for my werewolf support troops, I think the Archos could have wiped me out any time they wanted to...maybe in spite of the werewolves. Again, thanks for the effort in developing that civ, but it just isn't for me.

One last thing on the d'Tesh....just before I gave up, Blight hit and it DID appear to affect my cities, although I didn't wait around to see if they lost pop. or not.

PS. It got to the point where I was having a barb unit spawn inside my borders every 5-6 turns and, frankly, that was a real pain in the ***!

Time to try another civ with FF+...

 

[420boy]

A few ideas for the D'tesh:

I like the first pic for D'tesh. I think that it fits in better with the arcane feel of the civ.

While we are discussing their starting options, I would suggest that the D'tesh favorite wonder should be the Tower of Necromancy. I know that this can be somewhat difficult to obtain at times, but I feel that it fits better with the flavor of the civ.

I also agree with the idea that D'tesh should share the Scion response to the plague event. Another event suggestion could be the event where "the Lord of death has found us,". I think that this could be a bonus event for the D'tesh... maybe a golden age (like the Illians with Mulcarn) or bonus slaves?

 

[420boy]

One more quick thought:

I noticed when playing the Mechanos that fallout from the power plants can be a serious issue and I was unable to figure out how to clean it up without magic users (which they are blocked from)...

 

[xienwolf]

Are you using the forced Plot Counter on the improvements to convert the resources? If not, you could. But I'm not sure how well the D'Tesh deal with Hell in their territory.

 

[Sarisin]

A few ideas for the D'tesh:

I like the first pic for D'tesh. I think that it fits in better with the arcane feel of the civ.

While we are discussing their starting options, I would suggest that the D'tesh favorite wonder should be the Tower of Necromancy. I know that this can be somewhat difficult to obtain at times, but I feel that it fits better with the flavor of the civ.

I also agree with the idea that D'tesh should share the Scion response to the plague event. Another event suggestion could be the event where "the Lord of death has found us,". I think that this could be a bonus event for the D'tesh... maybe a golden age (like the Illians with Mulcarn) or bonus slaves?

Speaking of that Lord of Death event...

Playing my second FF+ game as Korinna/Scions I got that blasted event twice in the first 50 turns, the first time at Turn 2. Nothing like starting the game with a temporary -3 unhappiness!

Also, in the same game...

I was going to report this in the FF bug section as it is also there and not a cause of FF+ I think, but I am playing FF+.

Turn 85, Sheaim pops a Great Prophet and bulbs Ways of the Earthmother. What is wrong with this picture? Three things:

1. There needs to be some consistency in this game with what can be bulbed. I also got a Great Prophet just before then, and even though I had the requirements, it only let me bulb Philosophy. I am certain the Sheaim didn't have Philosophy. I know, because on rare occasions I have been able to bulb a religion right out without having to bulb Philosophy first. BTW, I researched Philosophy and the bulb changed to Priesthood - this without a religion and FOL and OO were both available to bulb.

It just needs consistency.

2. We are back to the discussion of the Sheaim becoming a ROK civ for the rest of the game. It just doesn't make much sense does it? Also, it pushes out the possibility of AV getting founded and spread because as we all know when ROK is founded early, and Turn 85 in an epic speed game, you will see almost all the AI civs adopt it.

3. Again, the AI managed to pop at least 10 GPs before Turn 100. I got one, so I guess I shouldn't complain, but it really seems like a bit much.

Sorry for the rant in the FF+ thread, but that's what I am playing.

PS. Didn't know Elk could attack ... until one killed my Scout!

 

[Swinkscalibur]

I read somewhere a thread several people posted on (including Valkrionn) about possibly tying a pseudo fourth tier of magic to the four magic towers. I have been thinking about it and I think I have found a fun way to do it. (And I'm fairly sure it uses just xml) I think it is balanced, fun and will provide a worthwhile reason to go after the towers even if a magical victory is disabled.

Two new units related to the Towers

Wizard – [National unit: 1 allowed]
- Upgraded from level 8 Archmage – 300 gold
- Prerequires: Omniscience and Either Tower of Alteration or Tower of Divination
- Starts with 1 Free Promotions, Channeling IV and Divine
- Allows promotions: Scroll of Alteration, Scroll of Divination, Triple Cast
- Strength: 6

Warlock – [National unit: 1 allowed]
- Upgraded from level 8 Archmage – 300 gold
- Prerequires: Omniscience and Either Tower of Necromancy or Tower of Elements
- Starts with 1 Free Promotions, Channeling IV and Summoner (I think this promotion was just added - +20% strength to summoned units)
- Allows promotions: Scroll of Necromancy, Scroll of Elements, Triple Cast
- Strength: 9

New Promotions

Channeling IV
-Enables: Scroll of Alteration, Scroll of Divination, Scroll of Necromancy, Scroll of Elements
-Spells are 10% less likely to be resisted
-Increased experience each turn

Scroll of Alteration
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III alteration class spells

Scroll of Divination
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III divination class spells

Scroll of Necromancy
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III necromancy class spells

Scroll of Elements
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III element class spells

Triple Cast
-Requires: Level 12 Warlock or Wizard
-Enables casting three spells per turn
(Not sure if this one can be done with just xml, I was hoping it could be adapted from twincast)

Edit: I plan on doing the work as a module if I can. It will be my first attempt at modding but I think I have the whole xml modding thing down. Plus if anyone has any suggestions for art for the wizards and warlocks (or suggestions for more flavorful names) as well as the promotions (I was thinking of using the tower icons, but it might be better to use something unique) I would appreciate it.

 

[xienwolf]

I never changed Twincast from a Boolean to an INT, so right now each promotion can only add 1 additional casting per turn, but there is no limit on how many such bonuses you can gain. So Triplecast could only be done with pure XML by having an AutoAcquired EffectPromotion which you gain by having Triplecast and which happens to grant ANOTHER twincast boost. Though the text key for Triplecast would still claim is allows 1 additional casting per turn

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Here's a teaser of the new D'teshi flag/border color. The gray borders are from a barb city... still a bit close, but it's as good as I can get it without moving it from black, which I won't do. As it is, the edges are very distinct. The flag icon is from Orbis. I believe it's also the icon used to show peace with demons.

Edit: Looking for a new leader pic for D'tesh, as he's using one from a minor Infernal leader.

Much better.

 

[Valkrionn]

Aww that means that slaves have not other purpose than to be added to the main d'tesh cities (heh heh I meant capital). Reasonably, workers who destroy the terrain they work on (i.e. anything to desert) probably won't be able to tame the living creatures within the borders. Just makes sense. Of course I am the merely humble deadliver whilst you are the semi mighty Valkrionn, hater of slaves being able to perform duties that D'tesh's undead slaves cannot...(also you hate puppies and everything else that is cute).

It's not that I don't like slaves having a use, it's just counter-intuitive that their workers cannot claim horses, and yet they have a mounted line. That's actually why I had them covert to Nightmares... Slaves are still able to keep them as horses if that's what you want.

Who does not?

Also, any chance that the new art from FfH41 will get included into this?

It's possible, but I don't know. Mostly because I tend to collect all the art I've added in one place, whereas the unofficial patch obviously cannot.

Two last items from my d'Tesh game:

1. I was unable to build the Tax Collector building - I don't think that was documented anywhere, and I'm not sure why they cannot be built.

2. Incredibly I got a message that I "declared war on Falamar" out of the blue. I have no Defensive Pacts, Basium is not in the game, etc. I have no idea what caused this. Honestly, it would spell the end of a weak Falamar, but I had no intention of declaring war on him - our relations were Cautious. Is there something that causes the d'Tesh to declare war for no reason.

Anyway, I'm abandoning this game and this civ too. Some might find d'Tesh interesting, but, as I said, it just doesn't fit the way I like to play FF. The lack of XP/promotions for most units is just too much IMO. I never got to see if they have a hero or World Spell and I made it pretty far in the tech tree. If it wasn't for my werewolf support troops, I think the Archos could have wiped me out any time they wanted to...maybe in spite of the werewolves. Again, thanks for the effort in developing that civ, but it just isn't for me.

One last thing on the d'Tesh....just before I gave up, Blight hit and it DID appear to affect my cities, although I didn't wait around to see if they lost pop. or not.

PS. It got to the point where I was having a barb unit spawn inside my borders every 5-6 turns and, frankly, that was a real pain in the ***!

Time to try another civ with FF+...

I'm not sure why they couldn't build a tax collector.. Or why Falamar declared on you.

The D'teshi hero is actually Lord D'tesh, on Arcane Lore I believe. The Arcane line is where you want to be.

A few ideas for the D'tesh:

I like the first pic for D'tesh. I think that it fits in better with the arcane feel of the civ.

While we are discussing their starting options, I would suggest that the D'tesh favorite wonder should be the Tower of Necromancy. I know that this can be somewhat difficult to obtain at times, but I feel that it fits better with the flavor of the civ.

I also agree with the idea that D'tesh should share the Scion response to the plague event. Another event suggestion could be the event where "the Lord of death has found us,". I think that this could be a bonus event for the D'tesh... maybe a golden age (like the Illians with Mulcarn) or bonus slaves?

I agree all around.

One more quick thought:

I noticed when playing the Mechanos that fallout from the power plants can be a serious issue and I was unable to figure out how to clean it up without magic users (which they are blocked from)...

Doesn't Sanctify remove fallout? Witch Hunters have access to it... Assassin UU.

Are you using the forced Plot Counter on the improvements to convert the resources? If not, you could. But I'm not sure how well the D'Tesh deal with Hell in their territory.

No, I'm just using the convert resource tag, like with the mana nodes.

Speaking of that Lord of Death event...

Playing my second FF+ game as Korinna/Scions I got that blasted event twice in the first 50 turns, the first time at Turn 2. Nothing like starting the game with a temporary -3 unhappiness!

Also, in the same game...

I was going to report this in the FF bug section as it is also there and not a cause of FF+ I think, but I am playing FF+.

Turn 85, Sheaim pops a Great Prophet and bulbs Ways of the Earthmother. What is wrong with this picture? Three things:

1. There needs to be some consistency in this game with what can be bulbed. I also got a Great Prophet just before then, and even though I had the requirements, it only let me bulb Philosophy. I am certain the Sheaim didn't have Philosophy. I know, because on rare occasions I have been able to bulb a religion right out without having to bulb Philosophy first. BTW, I researched Philosophy and the bulb changed to Priesthood - this without a religion and FOL and OO were both available to bulb.

It just needs consistency.

2. We are back to the discussion of the Sheaim becoming a ROK civ for the rest of the game. It just doesn't make much sense does it? Also, it pushes out the possibility of AV getting founded and spread because as we all know when ROK is founded early, and Turn 85 in an epic speed game, you will see almost all the AI civs adopt it.

3. Again, the AI managed to pop at least 10 GPs before Turn 100. I got one, so I guess I shouldn't complain, but it really seems like a bit much.

Sorry for the rant in the FF+ thread, but that's what I am playing.

PS. Didn't know Elk could attack ... until one killed my Scout!

Yeah, the event is something I didn't do... And I have no idea where to look for the bulb paths, or I'd look into it. That's always bugged me as well.

I read somewhere a thread several people posted on (including Valkrionn) about possibly tying a pseudo fourth tier of magic to the four magic towers. I have been thinking about it and I think I have found a fun way to do it. (And I'm fairly sure it uses just xml) I think it is balanced, fun and will provide a worthwhile reason to go after the towers even if a magical victory is disabled.

Two new units related to the Towers

Wizard – [National unit: 1 allowed]
- Upgraded from level 8 Archmage – 300 gold
- Prerequires: Omniscience and Either Tower of Alteration or Tower of Divination
- Starts with 1 Free Promotions, Channeling IV and Divine
- Allows promotions: Scroll of Alteration, Scroll of Divination, Triple Cast
- Strength: 6

Warlock – [National unit: 1 allowed]
- Upgraded from level 8 Archmage – 300 gold
- Prerequires: Omniscience and Either Tower of Necromancy or Tower of Elements
- Starts with 1 Free Promotions, Channeling IV and Summoner (I think this promotion was just added - +20% strength to summoned units)
- Allows promotions: Scroll of Necromancy, Scroll of Elements, Triple Cast
- Strength: 9

New Promotions

Channeling IV
-Enables: Scroll of Alteration, Scroll of Divination, Scroll of Necromancy, Scroll of Elements
-Spells are 10% less likely to be resisted
-Increased experience each turn

Scroll of Alteration
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III alteration class spells

Scroll of Divination
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III divination class spells

Scroll of Necromancy
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III necromancy class spells

Scroll of Elements
- purchased for 1000 gold
- requires Channeling IV
- grants access to all tier III element class spells

Triple Cast
-Requires: Level 12 Warlock or Wizard
-Enables casting three spells per turn
(Not sure if this one can be done with just xml, I was hoping it could be adapted from twincast)

Edit: I plan on doing the work as a module if I can. It will be my first attempt at modding but I think I have the whole xml modding thing down. Plus if anyone has any suggestions for art for the wizards and warlocks (or suggestions for more flavorful names) as well as the promotions (I was thinking of using the tower icons, but it might be better to use something unique) I would appreciate it.

Sounds interesting, should be a fun way to make the Towers worthwhile even if you aren't going for that victory.

 

[deadliver]

D'tesh and Tower of Necromancy are pretty much a given. Considering D'tesh has shadow affinity ( i assume he still does) it is no big deal getting a node for it. Seeing as everyone near you has already been conquered by you, you really don't care about the entropy diplo penalty either.

I have not played a lot of games against the Legion in my games, besides the GPP are they pretty scary? They sure seem to expand far.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I really don't think that Wizard should be both the name of a tier 4 caster and a tier 2 Amurite mage UU.

 

[xienwolf]

Bulb paths are easy. Multiply the Flavor values of the Unit who is Bulbing by the Flavor values of every tech you can currently research. Add those values together, and the highest number is what he offers to bulb. If there is a tie, he offers whichever one is listed first in the XML.

PLANNING bulb paths to get set up in a specific order... now that one is hard (unless you rebuild the flavors specifically around having a set bulb path, ignoring all other functions they are used for)

 

[deadliver]

I really don't think that Wizard should be both the name of a tier 4 caster and a tier 2 Amurite mage UU.

Hmm, should be a flashier name! Like Arch Magister! Or Mage Lord...or or...

hmm, a cool caster buildable by each tower would be cool *drools*

 

[cyther]

I did something like this in my modmod. I added four units

1. Divisinationist:
   • Requires:
     • Tower of Divination
     • Good Alignment
     • Reagants
     • A Level 6 Mage
   • National Limit: 4
   • Archmage Strength
   • Starts with:
     • Channeling 3
     • Blitz
   • Spell: Become Divine Paladin- Turns caster into a stronger version of the Paladin unit, Can be removed by combat
2. Alteror:
   • Requires:
     • Tower of Alteration
     • Neutral Alignment
     • Reagants
     • A Level 6 Mage
   • National Limit: 1
   • Archmage Strength
   • Starts with:
     • Channeling 3
     • Summoner 1
     • Summoner 2
   • Summoner 1 and 2 Increase the rate at which the caster gains xp and give the Command 1 and 2 promotions to all summons
3. Elementalist:
   • Requires:
     • Tower of Elements
     • Reagants
     • A Level 6 Mage
   • National Limit: 1
   • Archmage Strength
   • Starts with:
     • Channeling 3
     • Fire 1
     • Fire 2
     • Earth 1
     • Earth 2
     • Water 1
     • Water 2
     • Air 1
     • Air 2
   • Spell: Elemental Storm: Cast a random number (0-3) of Elemental spells including itself allowing for a possible second cast
4. Necromancer:
   • Requires:
     • Tower of Necromancy
     • Evil Alignment
     • Reagants
     • A Level 6 Mage
   • National Limit: 1
   • Archmage Strength
   • Starts with:
     • Channeling 3
     • Death 1
     • Death 2
     • Entropy 1
     • Chaos 1
     • Shadow 1
   • Effect: Necromancy- Living Units that die near the Necromancer are reborn as an undead version of themselves

 

[deadliver]

hey Valkrionn, the scavenger promo isn't allowing me to sacrifice for food?