Fall Further Plus

[deadliver]

Wow do I have a peesa moosic for you!

It is called Morte Theme from Planescape Torment by Mark Morgan...get a load of this!

EDIT: more music! from the same game and author.

 

[deadliver]

here is another track from painscape torment, same author as above.

For mechanos!

 

[Quetz]

couple suggestions for musak.



Side note: Some guys did a remix of the Civilization 4 main theme... pretty good. Not fitting for FF but still a nice listen XD http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01843/

 

[far_wanderer]

I find it a balance issue mostly because I don't want it to be easy. If it takes micro, then you're more likely to go for the root cause.

Deadliver and Warkirby have summed up my opinions on this matter quite nicely, but let me add a fundamental complaint I've had about hell terrain in general: What root cause?

Sure, sometime there's a single civ that has gone fully AV and you can hunt them down and lower the AC. That doesn't happen very often. Unless you're the Elohim, there is simply no way to reduce the AC as fast as it goes up. Also unless you're the Elohim, there is no way to get rid of Bradeline's Well. There is no root cause to go for - you fight hell by pushing it back tile by tile, and that causes a lot fewer headaches when you don't have to click a spell every five seconds.

 

[Valkrionn]

Wow do I have a peesa moosic for you!

It is called Morte Theme from Planescape Torment by Mark Morgan...get a load of this!

EDIT: more music! from the same game and author.

I don't really like the first one, but I like the second.

here is another track from painscape torment, same author as above.

For mechanos!

Like this one too.

couple suggestions for musak.

Side note: Some guys did a remix of the Civilization 4 main theme... pretty good. Not fitting for FF but still a nice listen XD http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01843/

I like the megaman remix.

Deadliver and Warkirby have summed up my opinions on this matter quite nicely, but let me add a fundamental complaint I've had about hell terrain in general: What root cause?

Sure, sometime there's a single civ that has gone fully AV and you can hunt them down and lower the AC. That doesn't happen very often. Unless you're the Elohim, there is simply no way to reduce the AC as fast as it goes up. Also unless you're the Elohim, there is no way to get rid of Bradeline's Well. There is no root cause to go for - you fight hell by pushing it back tile by tile, and that causes a lot fewer headaches when you don't have to click a spell every five seconds.

I just don't think the Mechanos should have easy access to sanctify. I gave them the ability, but may still end up removing it. Sanctifying terrain is not the same thing as terraforming... It requires divine magic, not technology. The Mechanos are not the kind of people to ask a god for help, or even to appropriate the powers of a god. They'd do it through their own abilities, and here I don't think they'd have much hope.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

I just don't think the Mechanos should have easy access to sanctify. I gave them the ability, but may still end up removing it. Sanctifying terrain is not the same thing as terraforming... It requires divine magic, not technology. The Mechanos are not the kind of people to ask a god for help, or even to appropriate the powers of a god. They'd do it through their own abilities, and here I don't think they'd have much hope.

What they can do very effectively is dispel and disrupt magic, as well as use it for their own mechanical ends. If we imagine that the spreading of Hell is a magical effect...perhaps they could tackle it using that angle? Perhaps they could build an improvement (disruption engine?) that suppresses hell in a radius? So the mechanos could have a national border dotted with roaring machines sucking up the entropic hell magic and converting it to energy to power said machines. They'd have to garrison and protect those tiles...because if the machines are pillaged the hell comes pouring in.

 

[Valkrionn]

What they can do very effectively is dispel and disrupt magic, as well as use it for their own mechanical ends. If we imagine that the spreading of Hell is a magical effect...perhaps they could tackle it using that angle? Perhaps they could build an improvement (disruption engine?) that suppresses hell in a radius? So the mechanos could have a national border dotted with roaring machines sucking up the entropic hell magic and converting it to energy to power said machines. They'd have to garrison and protect those tiles...because if the machines are pillaged the hell comes pouring in.

Now THAT'S an idea I'd like.

 

[far_wanderer]

I just don't think the Mechanos should have easy access to sanctify. I gave them the ability, but may still end up removing it. Sanctifying terrain is not the same thing as terraforming... It requires divine magic, not technology. The Mechanos are not the kind of people to ask a god for help, or even to appropriate the powers of a god. They'd do it through their own abilities, and here I don't think they'd have much hope.

Ironically, Sanctify currently has absolutely nothing to do with divine power, it's purely an arcane thing with Life magic . I agree that it needs some lore justification, but mechanically it's an effect that they really need. When your soil gets corrupted and demons start knocking on your door, that's not a divine issue, that's a real-world problem, and I'd like to think the Mechanos could figure out a way to deal with it. What about calling it "bulldoze" and attaching it to Steam Tanks? Or to Techpriests as "Flux Stabilizer". Going with the Flux Stabilizer idea, you could even make it a terrain improvement that has to be built and defended. With Adeptus getting Banishment, it's already clear that they've figured out some way of applying technology against demonic influence.

EDIT: Wow, I've never been ninjad so exactly before.

 

[Valkrionn]

Ironically, Sanctify currently has absolutely nothing to do with divine power, it's purely an arcane thing with Life magic . I agree that it needs some lore justification, but mechanically it's an effect that they really need. When your soil gets corrupted and demons start knocking on your door, that's not a divine issue, that's a real-world problem, and I'd like to think the Mechanos could figure out a way to deal with it. What about calling it "bulldoze" and attaching it to Steam Tanks? Or to Techpriests as "Flux Stabilizer". Going with the Flux Stabilizer idea, you could even make it a terrain improvement that has to be built and defended. With Adeptus getting Banishment, it's already clear that they've figured out some way of applying technology against demonic influence.

EDIT: Wow, I've never been ninjad so exactly before.

Haha, rather uncanny there.... The improvement idea would require an investment, and the sacrifice of a tile if it's in the workable radius. I like it, actually. Should even be easy enough to code... Just need to find art for it.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

EDIT: Wow, I've never been ninjad so exactly before.

*disappears in puff of smoke*

 

[Valkrionn]

After looking through the database, I've come up with either 'Mage Tower' or 'Shadow Mana Focus' here, or one of the psygate buildings here.

 

[deadliver]

After looking through the database, I've come up with either 'Mage Tower' or 'Shadow Mana Focus' here, or one of the psygate buildings here.

Yeah the mage tower looks good!

 

[Valkrionn]

Problem with it is it's the Svart palace.

 

[deadliver]

Psygate then, stupid, slinky Svartalfar. The shadow mana focus seems too magickal for the mechanos?

 

[Sarisin]

Yeah, there's something amiss in FF+ with barb units spawning inside your borders. In my game, I have had 4 barb Lizardmen (4 times) spawn out of the blue inside my borders.

Then, this weird spawning:

I used an adept with Scorch to transform an Ice/Ancient Forest tile to Tundra/Ancient Forest and for some bizarre reason it caused a barb Treant to spawn inside my borders. (see screenshot) Hey, that's MY Ancient Forest, so why are Treants upset.

Not sure what this is all about, but you do not see this early spawning of bad guys within your borders in FF.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, there's something amiss in FF+ with barb units spawning inside your borders. In my game, I have had 4 barb Lizardmen (4 times) spawn out of the blue inside my borders.

Then, this weird spawning:

I used an adept with Scorch to transform an Ice/Ancient Forest tile to Tundra/Ancient Forest and for some bizarre reason it caused a barb Treant to spawn inside my borders. (see screenshot) Hey, that's MY Ancient Forest, so why are Treants upset.

Not sure what this is all about, but you do not see this early spawning of bad guys within your borders in FF.

AHA! Okay, I take it you've been scorching regularly? Check out the Malakim+ Concept section in the Pedia, or the Scorch description, I believe it's there too. In FFPlus, and in all my mods since Malakim+, scorching features gives a chance for a defender to spawn... Ancient Forest will ALWAYS spawn a treant.

Here's a list...

Casting Scorch while in a flammable feature has a chance to flush out a defender.

• A forest has a chance of spawning an Animal defender, ranging from a common Wolf to a Satyr.
• A Jungle has a chance to spawn a Barbarian Goblin or Lizard, ranging from a simple Goblin to a Lizard Ranger or Assassin.
• A Burnt Forest has a high chance of spawning a Demon Mistform that will last 5 turns.
• An Ancient Forest will always spawn a Demon Treant that will last 5 turns.

 

[Sarisin]

Yes, that's it.

It was a surprise the first time, but I've since seen that it happens every time as you mentioned.

Honestly, I'm OK with it as it is an XP farm for Akasan as he picks off each spawned Treant before it can move.

 

[Valkrionn]

Putting patch B together now.

 

[Valkrionn]

Patch B:

• Updated Minor Leaders.
  • Many new traits, a new D'teshi leader, new heroes for the Mercurian/Infernal leaders. Check here for a full description.
• Merged in Warkirby's unofficial patch, should work with the new version of FfH now.
• Mushrooms are now a resource, not an improvement. 1 food, +2 with mines.
• Khazad now have the Dwarven line of improvements. See this post for the idea, laid out by Shatner.
• Khazad lose one food on all farms.
• Ingenuity becomes the Khazad civ trait.
• Spawn chance will now show for both Scions and Grigori
• Adventurer spawning tweaked. Should be slower over all, without much change in the initial turns.
• D'tesh recieves a new leaderhead, border color(Black, rather than grey)
• Demons recieve a new flag.

Don't know if this breaks save games, but I would assume it does... Last patch for a little while unless there's a major error.

 

[WarKirby]

wait, khazad lose food from farms?

The dwarven improvements don't give a lot of food. certainly not enough to replace -1food from every farm. Why do that?

I'd also like to point out that the horribly overpowered Mechanos factory almost allows them to knock the Khazad off the top spot as greatest industrial faction. This change pushes it over the edge, and gives mechanos a clear advantage since their food ouput isn't crippled so they can now work more mines than Khazad can.

2 food from Dwarven fortresses is far from enough to make up the loss of food from farms, and food was already the khazad's biggest problem.

i'm not liking that change.

Perhaps instead, you could make them unable to adopt agrarianism? Since it's an inappropriate civic for them, it'd be a good idea I think. It would reduce their overall food potential, rather than their base food income.