Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Ahriman]

I quite like the Bug mod. I would prefer it stayed maintained within FF rather than having to try to track down updates for other modmods, or worry about FF updates breaking whatever other modmods are installed. One-single-package = you've tested compatibility, so I don't have to.

I just tried out the Scions mod too, and I'm very impressed; the Scions play more "differently" and more originally than any other FFH faction. I'd like to see this within FF too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I consider it the weakest level 3 spell by far. I consider it better suited for a law 1. Loyalty is probably the only spell less useful, so I'd probably include the effects of Loyalty in Valor when I move it down. If t does stay at level 3, it needs to at least give immunity to fear, much more xp per combat, more spell resistance, and a decrease in the amount of xp needed to take on new levels (the opposite of enervates/withered)

I'm thinking in my version Law III will be Banish, which will be a lethal spell that only works on "evil units" (OO, AV, demons, undead, maybe elementals, and units with spell sphere promotions (death , entropy, higher levels of chaos, shadow, and body) considered evil. I'm thinking it will have a chance to either kill the unit or make it escape back to the owners capital.





I like FFHBUG too, but it can cause problems. I'm not sure about leaving it in. So long as an FF version is maintained too I'd be fine with removing it. Or maybe making it a game option?


I do hope that Unit Stats and xienwolf's xml modcomp are included fairly soon (in time to be stable by the last day of this month, when I'll again have time for my modmod). Of course, I'd like to convince xinewolf to add a few more things first so they can make it in to FF's DLL too.

 

[Charybdis]

Question regarding the alignment mod. Does anyone know something I can do to boost my alignment, either by small steady amounts, or a large amount.

If I play low neutral civ's, I trickle over into evil either by dungeons or burning a few cities.

 

[Tarquelne]

The other thing I'm looking at really is FFHBUG. I *really* like a lot of the additions it makes (Civ4Lerts, PLE etc),

Civ4Lerts is by far my favorite component. I'd often add the basic (DEG) version to a mod myself.

I'd suggest keeping the components that don't seem to be causing problems and add others back later. But I don't know how much trouble that'd be... and all I really want is Civ4Lerts.

All in all I've found the problems insignificant compared to the added features. Though the sticky icons thing is BUGing me more and more.

 

[Darksaber1]

Question regarding the alignment mod. Does anyone know something I can do to boost my alignment, either by small steady amounts, or a large amount.

If I play low neutral civ's, I trickle over into evil either by dungeons or burning a few cities.

Ya, I know that problem. Also, is it just me, or is Hannah evil almost right if the bat? If so, she needs to be moved up, because when she inevitably adopts Fend for Themselves, she turns evil, and my cold-blooded hordes need to wipe her out.

 

[Vehem]

Civ4Lerts is by far my favorite component. I'd often add the basic (DEG) version to a mod myself.

I'd suggest keeping the components that don't seem to be causing problems and add others back later. But I don't know how much trouble that'd be... and all I really want is Civ4Lerts.

All in all I've found the problems insignificant compared to the added features. Though the sticky icons thing is BUGing me more and more.

Well - I've made a little progress on one of the issues that was bothering me about it. When one unit was converted to another using the XML spell method (<ConvertUnitType>), the rewritten MainInterface code for the PLE was trying to update the button whilst it was in-between unit types.

		# set unit button image
		screen.changeImageButton( szString, gc.getUnitInfo(pLoopUnit.getUnitType()).getButton() )

Which resulted in an endless loop of python exceptions if they were enabled. This was a particular problem when creating Drown from warriors - the loop was inescapable except through terminating the process.

After tracking that one down, I added a check that makes sure that the UnitType is actually a valid type and not a "NoneType" (which if I understand the InfoTypes correctly is almost exactly the same as a NULL in C++ and is exactly the same in Python).

		# set unit button image
		infoUnitInfo = gc.getUnitInfo(pLoopUnit.getUnitType())
		if infoUnitInfo > 0:
			screen.changeImageButton( szString, infoUnitInfo.getButton() )

The assignation is so that we don't need to look up the UnitInfo twice (this code gets called a lot).

===

If we have any other specific cases of Python exceptions - especially those related to MainInterfaceFF.py, can you please let me know, including the text of the exception. Also, if anyone knows the exact cause or method to reproduce the "sticky icon" issue, I'd like to get that one resolved as well.

===

I consider it the weakest level 3 spell by far. I consider it better suited for a law 1. Loyalty is probably the only spell less useful, so I'd probably include the effects of Loyalty in Valor when I move it down. If t does stay at level 3, it needs to at least give immunity to fear, much more xp per combat, more spell resistance, and a decrease in the amount of xp needed to take on new levels (the opposite of enervates/withered)

Good points - I had considered altering the base amount of extra XP per level, but instead I may do as you mentioned and make it a %XP boost, in a similar way to the Ambition promotion. I'm not sure how much of a boost to make it though. 50% and permanent sounds fair, but a little boring - whilst 100% and making the promotion temporary as before is a little more exciting and keeps the mage on the front lines for maximum benefit.



===

 

[Tarquelne]

Well - I've made a little progress on one of the issues that was bothering me about it. When one unit was converted to another using the XML spell method (<ConvertUnitType>), the rewritten MainInterface code for the PLE was trying to update the button whilst it was in-between unit types.

Excellent! A couple of Scions units (a hero and the ranger equiv.) use perm. summon/sacrifice caster spells that seem to be doing something similar. I don't have python exceptions enabled but the UI becomes fairly unresponsive until you click on another unit. Sounds like a similar issue, if not the same one.

I'll turn on Python exceptions and try to check it out, or maybe add your fix and see what happens.

EDIT: The UI behavior after the sacrifice/summon - not sure why I don't use convert - seems the same as the UI behavior after Drown creation. Didn't have exceptions on.

 

[Vehem]

Excellent! A couple of Scions units (a hero and the ranger equiv.) use perm. summon/sacrifice caster spells that seem to be doing something similar. I don't have python exceptions enabled but the UI becomes fairly unresponsive until you click on another unit. Sounds like a similar issue, if not the same one.

I'll turn on Python exceptions and try to check it out, or maybe add your fix and see what happens.

EDIT: The UI behavior after the sacrifice/summon - not sure why I don't use convert - seems the same as the UI behavior after Drown creation. Didn't have exceptions on.

Unresponsive sounds about right. It will actually be throwing lots of exceptions in the background (probably every "update" of the screen - ~250 milliseconds between) but when the Python Popups are enabled, those spam the screen and it's impossible to select another unit to make it stop.

Hopefully all of those problems are solved now anyway.

 

[Keilden]

Somebody have probly asked this befor but its a big thread, is there some way to only get the new civs in this mod?

 

[LetsBoogeyUp]

Keep BUG. Not only is it useful for streamlining some aspects of micromanaging (i.e. knowing when your cities are going to expand their boarders, increase/decrease in population, keeping track of Great People birth rate in your cities) there are a ton of interesting add ons like the Unit Naming function (a favourite of mine currently).

 

[Aoleleb]

Has anyone ever had a problem where after installing FF, copying the FfH files during installation, none of the units or buildings have any graphics...? o.O I checked regular FfH, and they have graphics there, but when trying to run FF none of the units or buildings have graphics, not even the regular FfH ones. If anyone has a solution to this problem I would love to hear it. Thanks in advance!

 

[Vehem]

Has anyone ever had a problem where after installing FF, copying the FfH files during installation, none of the units or buildings have any graphics...? o.O I checked regular FfH, and they have graphics there, but when trying to run FF none of the units or buildings have graphics, not even the regular FfH ones. If anyone has a solution to this problem I would love to hear it. Thanks in advance!

Can you check that there's a Pak0.fpk in your Fall Further\Assets folder?

If not, can you check that there's on in Fall from Heaven 032\Assets?

There should be one in both - this is where almost all of the normal FfH graphics are kept.

 

[Aoleleb]

There's one in both.

 

[xienwolf]

Vehem, if you are going to import my MODCOMP, at least look at it when you are upgrading Valor to be appropriate for a Rank 3

You could have them provide some Culture for each kill, or not cause War Weariness, or cost no Support (iExtraGold = -1 & bNoSupport)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i just won my very first game of civ (domination) without cheating once

i was using the Austrin civ, tectonic map, islands, all FF civs checked in.

settings were blessings of amathon, wildlands, living world.

I won with only one unit... Harmatt... He is DEFINATELY the MOST overpowered hero in the game. i have never EVER achieved such insantiy with any other hero. ALTHOUGH, i got another huge burst of luck in that i got the adventuring hero event about 30 turns after i built him, and guess what i found... the rod of winds... making him air affinity 2... effectivly doubling his strength. i then killed Orthus, getting his axe, the hyborem getting gela once again, thats a bonus 3 strength... then factor in my 7 air mana nodes (after killing the evil lizzies) thats 17 free elemental strength. then add on my iron weapons, thats another 2. in the end he ended up being 24 strength at at least level 32... i ended up getting too many promotions that it ended up covering the last digit of his level. he had every promotion he could get except the elemental resistances (they are useless cause the ai dont use spells well). and i absolutely slaughteres 6 civs with him alone.

oh did i mention i killed archeron with a 89% chance victory?

oh and the pegasi are insane, the main reason harmatt was so UBER in this game was because he could fly, sitting on the coast or on peaks and snyper passing stacks, usually 6 at a time...


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on another note, the ai are buildign cities on mana nodes... im not sure how or why but they are. i had 2 cities on mana nodes in my game.

 

[Y T]

"he had every promotion he could get except the elemental resistances (they are useless cause the ai dont use spells well). "

Not so useless, dont forget the affinities & manaoriented attackpower of some units (Wraith 6 +3 Death; Harmatt's Air, Dragons Fire & other related magic attacks). But I give out the better common proms first too, but just sometimes Im in the need of creating specialists! (playing Marnoks insane barb mod here.)

 

[Rawn]

especially if Daracat rise in power it´s good to have poison resistance
when he throws his Brute hordes against you

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

very true, i had forgotten about attack types... luckily i was so uberly strong that nothing could stop me regardless

 

[MagisterCultuum]

oh did i mention i killed archeron with a 89% chance victory?

I starting to think that people's complaints that resistances don;t take affinity into account are right. Dragons are immune to lightning Damage, so Harmatt should have been far too weak to take him out.

 

[Ahriman]

Some of the resistances/immunities definitely don't work, but the fact that they don't work isn't normally reflected in the reported combat odds.
I am guessing that the 89% vs Acheron didn't even count the Lightning strength; it would have come solely from base strength + iron weapons + orthus axe + hyborem gela + combat5 + drill5 etc.