Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Jean Elcard]

Ok, that explained it. Just finished successfully building a hopefully working 0.41 dll. Thanks.

Btw, it would be nice if there were a little remark in the second post (at the spot where you can download the source) which version it actually is. At the moment you have to guess by the last change date of the files if it is 0.41, 0.41A or 0.41B.

 

[Vehem]

Ok, that explained it. Just finished successfully building a hopefully working 0.41 dll. Thanks.

Btw, it would be nice if there were a little remark in the second post (at the spot where you can download the source) which version it actually is. At the moment you have to guess by the last change date of the files if it is 0.41, 0.41A or 0.41B.

That's become a little tricky as Xien is updating the source regularly with his stable versions (even between patch versions) and that post is one of mine which he can't edit. It might pay for us to start a FF-DLL thread which Xienwolf "owns" and I can just link the post to that thread instead of a direct download.

 

[Jean Elcard]

That's become a little tricky as Xien is updating the source regularly with his stable versions (even between patch versions) and that post is one of mine which he can't edit. It might pay for us to start a FF-DLL thread which Xienwolf "owns" and I can just link the post to that thread instead of a direct download.

He is releasing new source code to the public even between patch versions? I don't think, that's such a good idea. This might lead to severe compatibility issues with modmodmods, if they use a source code release which isn't in line with the current version of Fall Further. The currently provided source code seems to work with 0.41B though. Just released a compatible version of FlavourMod for it.

A new source code thread would be a solution, but I think there is an easier one. Xienwolf releases a txt-file of his together with the source code anyway. My proposal is to put the currently supported Fall Further version number simply in there.

 

[arkham4269]

Not sure what is going on with this so not sure if it's a bug or not. One issue I've had with Civilization in particular is it seems to go from being easy, easy, not so easy to CANNOT win. Maybe I just suck at playing it. Anyway, I tend to play at the Noble level and the game is challenging for the most part.

However, while playing FfF or FF, I've notice that even with the double the bonuses flagged, often time the AI rarely seems to build anything other than warriors and archers. Even when the barbarians are running around with axemen and macemen, the AI Civ's are often really weak. I could understand it if they didn't have copper or iron, but I've noticed that with double the bonuses, there usually is plenty of that to go around. Even if they didn't have it, you'd expect more hunters or maybe the AI would work harder to get religion so they could at least pump out fawns or soldiers of Kilmorph.

Is this an actual problem or is it 'normal' for the Noble level of play?

Plus, on this topic, is there any mod or even a hope that Firaxis will ever have a slider scale like culture or espionage that will allocate a certain amount of money so that your (actually the AI's units) will upgrade over time. It never ceases to amaze me in normal Civ games when I'm running over spearmen with tanks. Players, obviously, could opt in or out of this slider. I would think the AI's decision on how much to allocate would depend on their leader. Obviously Aggressive or Defender Leaders would allocate more over a Philosophical or Spiritual one.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, ideally I would keep my MODCOMP thread up to date and use that as the DLL source acquisition area For modifications to Fall Further you would grab the source, DLL, Schemas, GameOptionInfos.xml & GameText_MODCOMP. With those elements only you can make the DLL compatible with both FF and FfH.

But basically, the only incompatibilities you might face by grabbing my mid-patch source updates would be Text Keys. Everything else I do keeps the base game running properly thus far. And I'd certainly add to the Text File in the download if I modified tags or other items to make it no longer compatible. (though at that point you'd be looking at a major update in FF as well, so it would probably go internal only so Vehem and I can debug and prepare things).

 

[Vehem]

Not sure what is going on with this so not sure if it's a bug or not. One issue I've had with Civilization in particular is it seems to go from being easy, easy, not so easy to CANNOT win. Maybe I just suck at playing it. Anyway, I tend to play at the Noble level and the game is challenging for the most part.

However, while playing FfF or FF, I've notice that even with the double the bonuses flagged, often time the AI rarely seems to build anything other than warriors and archers. Even when the barbarians are running around with axemen and macemen, the AI Civ's are often really weak. I could understand it if they didn't have copper or iron, but I've noticed that with double the bonuses, there usually is plenty of that to go around. Even if they didn't have it, you'd expect more hunters or maybe the AI would work harder to get religion so they could at least pump out fawns or soldiers of Kilmorph.

Is this an actual problem or is it 'normal' for the Noble level of play?

In Fall from Heaven it's probably actually "normal" for Noble. It's generally recommended to play roughly 2 levels higher than you normally would play BtS for a similar level of challenge.

The other trick is using a game option labelled "No AI Building Requirements" - this explicitly allows the AI to cheat by bypassing the Building requirements of units (Training Yard, Hunting Lodge etc). Some people really don't like the idea of the AI cheating, but it certainly improves the way they play.

That being said - in recent versions Kael has been improving the AI in places to make it less necessary to use that option. I've seen the AI do well with building requirements in recent game - but they still obviously do better with the option turned on.

I'd suggest upping the difficulty to Prince and turning that option on - see if the difficulty suits better. I tend to play FF on Monarch or Emperor having played Civ4 and BtS mostly on Prince - that tends to be fairly challenging, though I don't think I've encountered too many "impossible" situations at that level (except maybe on a very bad roll for a lair exploration in my BFC - Lich on turn 2 - though I knew that was a really bad idea when I did it...)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think you get better results from modding all the unit-allowing buildings to more than allow the units. The AI is much more likely to build them for the XP than for the units, and then it can build stronger units. Not needing buildings mean the AI misses out on the the free promotions from their UBs, and that the Doviello lose the advantage they have in not needing as many buildings. Buildings that actually do something are more fun for human players too.

 

[DuckAndCower]

When I load up FF, the background of the menu screen is the normal BtS background, not FfH's. The FfH music still plays, but when I start a new game, the interface is gone completely.

Anyone know what could be causing this? I installed FfH .32, then patch L, then installed FF .41, then patch B.

FfH runs correctly. Seems to be only FF that's messed up.

 

[Vehem]

When I load up FF, the background of the menu screen is the normal BtS background, not FfH's. The FfH music still plays, but when I start a new game, the interface is gone completely.

Anyone know what could be causing this? I installed FfH .32, then patch L, then installed FF .41, then patch B.

FfH runs correctly. Seems to be only FF that's messed up.

On the Options screen, you can select which Title Screen to use. There are 2 for BtS - "Beyond the Sword" and "BtS Classical". Fall from Heaven only overrides "Beyond the Sword", so it needs to be set to that one in order to see the Fall from Heaven title screen. For some reason, the first time you play after 3.17 it's defaulting back to "BtS Classical".

 

[DuckAndCower]

Thanks... now any idea why I'm not getting any sort of GUI in-game?

Maybe it's an option? I'll take another look.

[edit] Hrm... clicking the Options button either in the Advanced menu or in-game has no effect. I mean, the button depresses, but nothing actually happens. No options screen comes up. What's going on here?

 

[Vehem]

Thanks... now any idea why I'm not getting any sort of GUI in-game?

Maybe it's an option? I'll take another look.

Have you got python errors turned on? If there's no GUI there will most likely be an error popup with some details.

EDIT: I'm doing a clean reinstall at the moment to a test directory to see if I can reproduce it.

 

[Soberirish]

I'm playing as the Kahdi civilization under Kahd (of course). I'm playing on the following settings:
Tectonics
60% Water
Start: Ancient (I think that's what it is called)
Medium size map
2 more players than default
double events, double rewards, and new random seed
The problem that is occurring is that I researched the tech which unlocks RoK first and founded the holy city. However, I am not able to convert to RoK and I read up on Kahd in the civilopedia and decided that maybe he can't have a religion (dedicated to Oghma), but soon I noticed that one of the dwarven civilizations had founded the RoK also (as a notice told me). How did they found it if I did it first. Also, if Kahd can't adopt a religion, could you please add the Leadership trait Agnostic (or something along those lines, since he really isn't agnostic). Thank you very much.
-Matt Riley

 

[DuckAndCower]

I turned on Python errors... didn't get any when clicking Options.

No errors at all when starting a new game, either.

I think I'm just going to nuke everything FfH-related and see if a completely clean install will do the trick.

[edit]Reinstalling FfH did the trick. Next time I'll just try that first

 

[Ambreville]

I've done a clean reinstall of FFH + Patch L and Fall Further + Patch B. The three Python issues I described earlier have not manifested themselves (the baby spiders, the units stuck inside the Dural capital, and the GP bar error).

It's unfortunate that the very cool displays are gone as a result of the fix. I really enjoyed the unit filter and the Civ alignment display on the lower right of the screen. I thought this made a big difference with FFH as it made the game a lot more manageable. I miss all that now. Oh well!

I only had one hiccup, a "bad memory allocation" that caused a CTD, but I could not reproduce it when I reloaded the game.

I noticed the AI builds waaaay too many ships (the Dural in particular), and as just stated earlier, the Ai fails to build the more interesting units (okay, I did read the thread on this issue, so I might turn that god-forsaken option on).

Thanks for a truly GREAT mod. Very enjoyable. Keep up the good work.

 

[xienwolf]

More than just the "No Building Requirements" in FF you can also enable "AI No Level Requirements" to make the AI more capable of fielding advanced Magical Units & Priests (and Basium capable of fielding tons more units). It may also prove to be of some use.


As for the lost aspects of BUG Mod, we'll be trying to work them back into the game as we are able to, but coded ourselves so that we know they work with FfH.

EDIT: @Jean Elcard: I finally looked at the extra cpp & h Files. They aren't Vehem's/BUG Mod's fault at all, but completely my own. It is the elements which are needed for WoC, which I was working on incorporating into FfH to enhance Modular Loading and the Fonts TGA. So someday you'll have to use a few of them, but not for a while

 

[Tarquelne]

I'm getting a CTD when casting the Windsword spell if enemy units are in range. (041B fresh install)

 

[Ahriman]

Cosmetic issue;
The Cualli war elephant unit icon is... a bit too large.

I'm loving the "AI no level requirements" option.

OTOH, 300 turns in many of the AIs are still crippled by forestlock.... sad.

 

[Jean Elcard]

EDIT: @Jean Elcard: I finally looked at the extra cpp & h Files. They aren't Vehem's/BUG Mod's fault at all, but completely my own. It is the elements which are needed for WoC, which I was working on incorporating into FfH to enhance Modular Loading and the Fonts TGA. So someday you'll have to use a few of them, but not for a while

Nice to know these files have a sense in the end. I'm almost started thinking they came through a dimensional gate or something like that, just to mess everything up. But I suppose thoughts like this are a clear indication of too much civ lately ...

 

[xienwolf]

Heh heh. New version is up right now which doesn't include those files The only other changes are useless without the matching Python though (a rarity in my code, but it is interface elements for the Master/Slave work), so if what you have is working you needn't bother really.

 

[supramkii]

is it possible to get this for FfH 20 ?
please