Far-Right Ideology in the 21st Century

[Cloud_Strife]

Psst nobody tell Zardnaar that immigration will sky rocket to levels previously unheard off if we don't do anything about worldwide climate change and instead focus on our "own" country, as if we don't all live on the same planet.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Immigration policy and energy policy wouldn't appear to be inherently connected.

Also stop charging your iphone up 3 times a day if you really care (not you personally).

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Climate change WILL cause an increase in immigration, as people flee from increasingly uninhabitable places and climate change is caused by humans, the science is settled on that.

 

[rah]

Opposing total open borders does not make a person a far right nazi.
I thought I read that a majority of Democrats don't support open borders.

 

[Zardnaar]

If being annoyed by randoms on twitter is enough to make you seriously consider flirting with neo nazis And their enablers (the right in general) then may I politely point out that you weren't much of an ally to begin with.

Me not so much others yes. I don't agree with them but the left isn't doing much. I don't think UKIP and Boris Johnson and co are Nazis or the yellow vests in France. Bunch of clowns.

It's kind of what I'm getting at to many people are painting people as Nazis. Trump's an aberration.

I don't count opposing immigration as being a Nazi but the left isn't doing anything about it. Jobs are scarce, money is tight in NZ something like 70% don't get the average wage. Combine that with problems around immigration and there's your answer.

 

[Lexicus]

Opposing total open borders does not make a person a far right nazi.

It's true. Of course, the moral beliefs of people who don't support total open borders bears more resemblance to Nazi morality than is commonly supposed, but it would be very politically incorrect of me to harp on about that.

 

[rah]

We can disagree on that I suppose. But then I expected that.
But to call all those oppose it Nazi's runs the chance of alienating too many possible allies on many other topics. So not just politically incorrect but probably politically unwise.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Climate change WILL cause an increase in immigration, as people flee from increasingly uninhabitable places and climate change is caused by humans, the science is settled on that.

Yes but you said "if we don't do anything about worldwide climate change and instead focus on our "own" country", as if these are necessarily connected things. Reducing immigration doesn't prevent doing something about climate change, and opening the borders doesn't do anything about climate change either.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Yes but you said "if we don't do anything about worldwide climate change and instead focus on our "own" country", as if these are necessarily connected things. Reducing immigration doesn't prevent doing something about climate change, and opening the borders doesn't do anything about climate change either.

I get that but that means not just doing "our" bit in our own countries, but doing everything we can to help rid ourselves globally of dependence on fossil fuels, reducing emissions, cutting down on meat production, reversing deforestation, doing all we can to prevent the upcoming ecological disaster that is is impending, this isn't happening independent of countries and people, it's all interconnected.

 

[Traitorfish]

Here we have 90 000 unemployed young people why are we letting in 100k migrants a year to pack supermarket shelves and work at Domino's Pizza?

Why do employees hire them? We can probably assume, on average, that they do not speak or read English as strongly, that they are less familiar with the businesses they work in, and that they are less familiar with the norms of Western customer service sector. The only thing in their collective favour, in the sort of jobs you name, is that they are more willing to work unsociable hours for low wages. If you force employers to compensate employees- well, I hesitate to say "fairly", because I'm a realist, but less unfairly, then the incentive to prefer immigrant workers is mostly going to dissipate.

These "left" arguments against immigration are framed as somehow workerist because they will inconvenience rich people, but they're always carefully posed in such a way as to refuse the authority of the public over rich people. We can take any measure to frustrate the attempts of the rich to exploit the poor, they seem to concede, as long as we don't challenge their fundamental right to exploit the poor.

 

[rah]

Since when does someone that is paying cash to immigrants care if there is a minimum wage?

 

[inthesomeday]

Ultimately the argument puppet theater doesn’t matter... climate change will cause a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in <50 years, and the West will be overwhelmed by it.

 

[Patine]

Ultimately the argument puppet theater doesn’t matter... climate change will cause a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in <50 years, and the West will be overwhelmed by it.

It'll start with the Maldives and Kiribati, at least as oceanic levels determine. They will be the first to go under.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Ultimately the argument puppet theater doesn’t matter... climate change will cause a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in <50 years, and the West will be overwhelmed by it.

Fact's don't care about their feelings.

 

[Estebonrober]

Ultimately the argument puppet theater doesn’t matter... climate change will cause a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in <50 years, and the West will be overwhelmed by it.

This seems almost indisputable at this point.

 

[Traitorfish]

Since when does someone that is paying cash to immigrants care if there is a minimum wage?

That's a law-enforcement problem, surely, not an immigration problem? What you're asking is a specific example of the general question of why employers would obey labour laws if they can get away with violating it, and one of the duties of the government is to ensure that they don't get away with it.

 

[rah]

But as usual with the Government, it fails at it. (by design)

 

[Zardnaar]

Why do employees hire them? We can probably assume, on average, that they do not speak or read English as strongly, that they are less familiar with the businesses they work in, and that they are less familiar with the norms of Western customer service sector. The only thing in their collective favour, in the sort of jobs you name, is that they are more willing to work unsociable hours for low wages. If you force employers to compensate employees- well, I hesitate to say "fairly", because I'm a realist, but less unfairly, then the incentive to prefer immigrant workers is mostly going to dissipate.

These "left" arguments against immigration are framed as somehow workerist because they will inconvenience rich people, but they're always carefully posed in such a way as to refuse the authority of the public over rich people. We can take any measure to frustrate the attempts of the rich to exploit the poor, they seem to concede, as long as we don't challenge their fundamental right to exploit the poor.

It's because they will work for rates New Zealanders won't and they can be ignorant of labour laws. There's been several cases of labour exploitation here including a conviction for slavery our first one. Person responsible was also a migrants
who was exploiting their own people. Some have also been busted paying less than half minimum wage.

Another employer who was paying slightly above minimum wage was complaining about a lack of workers and saying young NZers had a lack of work ethics. Was paying 18 dollars an hour in Queenstown. Queenstown costs around $500 a week for a room and in hospitality you might not get a 40 hour week. In the 90s we used to go to Central Otago for work it's not worth it now.

In Auckland McDonalds pays around $20 an hour, average house price 1 million dollars.

Once again in the 90s you could get a house for around $60k. In Auckland less than $200 k. As I said per capita our migration rate hit 6 or 7 million per year (USA) or the Syrian refugee thing every year if you are German.

Here it was the right that did it, difference was open borders for the rich.

What are house prices like in London and can the locals afford to buy there on 25% less than the average wage? Can't blame climate change yet, it's the polititians for that one. Here they blame the National party, UK the EU, USA Mexicans. Trump's wall is idiotic as it won't work anyway, and walls don't really stop anyone either.

Economic distress same reasons that fueled the right in the 30s. You have to fix that first before people care about global warming or any other cause of the week sjw types latch onto. Right now it can suck a lot of you're poor, people won't care about something in 100 years time.

Our government just delivered a well being budget. It's a start and what they campaigned on but they couldn't push through tax reform as they lacked the numbers. Can't achieve anything if you're out of power though.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I get that but that means not just doing "our" bit in our own countries, but doing everything we can to help rid ourselves globally of dependence on fossil fuels, reducing emissions, cutting down on meat production, reversing deforestation, doing all we can to prevent the upcoming ecological disaster that is is impending, this isn't happening independent of countries and people, it's all interconnected.

Well we all live in different places so we all have different "our" countries. So we could all do our own bit and actually ask be doing something. None of us can do more than our own bit anyway. Plus let's be honest, it's a pretty small subset of countries that are actually doing the damage.

 

[Modder_Mode]

Psst nobody tell Zardnaar that immigration will sky rocket to levels previously unheard off if we don't do anything about worldwide climate change and instead focus on our "own" country, as if we don't all live on the same planet.

Climate change WILL cause an increase in immigration, as people flee from increasingly uninhabitable places and climate change is caused by humans, the science is settled on that.

Ultimately the argument puppet theater doesn’t matter... climate change will cause a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in <50 years, and the West will be overwhelmed by it.

Why would people want to come to the West? I've heard its terribly racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, Islamaphobic and bigoted among other things, why would millions risk life and death to try and get there, it just makes no sense...
And they certainly wouldn't want to go to the US as it's Governed by a tyrannical dictator, even loads of celebrities who claimed that if he ever got elected said they would leave the US... not to Mexico, not the Middle East, not Africa, but Canada...a majority white western nation...seems pretty racist if you ask me, oh and they never left by the way, very honourable people, one that even threatened physical violence against a democratically elected president, yeh great people they are, lecturing about climate change and how poor people must change their ways to stop global warming all the whilst jet-setting around the globe enjoying luxurious holidays out on their yachts and munching on glorious meals in their 20 bedroom mansions and cruising the streets in their million dollar sports cars as people sit back with their smart phones liking and sharing tweets these same celebrities pontificate on how "we" need to do more to stop climate change....One even advocating for Socialism....just as long as his fortune isn't touched, he doesn't know what equality actually is, you see its easy to just say a bunch of good words and catch phrases than actually do anything, hurt feelings are much more important than truths and actions.