Far-Right Ideology in the 21st Century

[Patine]

Why would people want to come to the West? I've heard its terribly racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, Islamaphobic and bigoted among other things, why would millions risk life and death to try and get there, it just makes no sense...
And they certainly wouldn't want to go to the US as it's Governed by a tyrannical dictator, even loads of celebrities who claimed that if he ever got elected said they would leave the US... not to Mexico, not the Middle East, not Africa, but Canada...a majority white western nation...seems pretty racist if you ask me, oh and they never left by the way, very honourable people, one that even threatened physical violence against a democratically elected president, yeh great people they are, lecturing about climate change and how poor people must change their ways to stop global warming all the whilst jet-setting around the globe enjoying luxurious holidays out on their yachts and munching on glorious meals in their 20 bedroom mansions and cruising the streets in their million dollar sports cars as people sit back with their smart phones liking and sharing tweets these same celebrities pontificate on how "we" need to do more to stop climate change....One even advocating for Socialism....just as long as his fortune isn't touched, he doesn't know what equality actually is, you see its easy to just say a bunch of good words and catch phrases than actually do anything, hurt feelings are much more important than truths and actions.

Name a non-Western country with a better record. They can go to the shining, ultra-modern cities of the Arabian Peninsula monarchies, and be made to do next to slave labour, where homosexuality is punishable by death and all permanent residents must be Sunni Moslem. Or South Africa, with the national motto, "Diversity is Strength" in 10 languages, but for whom their demographic melting never became more than a horrid, violent, internecine mess in the post-Apartheid days. Or China, where I'm sure a little "re-education" and they'll set to a life of brainwashed labour for the profit of the people in the hybrid Communist/Capitalist system in place now. Or Japan or South Korea, where you will never become a citizen, no matter how long you or your descendants are permanent residents, because being a citizen is based on being of ethnic Japanese or Korean heritage, respectively. Or Thailand, India, or an Anglo-Caribbean country, with cities with higher murder rates than any First World city (topping even Baltimore and Detroit, the highest First World murder capitals at the moment), and bad legacies, along with Vietnam, Taiwan, and Bangladesh, of exploiting their workers HORRIBLY in sweat shops. Or Turkey or Russia, where one can just imagine what jolly old Recyp and Vladimir would have in mind for a wave of migrants - it would make one shudder. And, unless you're Orthodox Jewish, you're not getting citizenship in Israel - that's the Right of the Return. So, where is the better place to go as a migrant? Where is the Shangri-La?

 

[Modder_Mode]

Name a non-Western country with a better record. They can go to the shining, ultra-modern cities of the Arabian Peninsula monarchies, and be made to do next to slave labour, where homosexuality is punishable by death and all permanent residents must be Sunni Moslem. Or South Africa, with the national motto, "Diversity is Strength" in 10 languages, but for whom their demographic melting never became more than a horrid, violent, internecine mess in the post-Apartheid days. Or China, where I'm sure a little "re-education" and they'll set to a life of brainwashed labour for the profit of the people in the hybrid Communist/Capitalist system in place now. Or Japan or South Korea, where you will never become a citizen, no matter how long you or your descendants are permanent residents, because being a citizen is based on being of ethnic Japanese or Korean heritage, respectively. Or Thailand, India, or an Anglo-Caribbean country, with cities with higher murder rates than any First World city (topping even Baltimore and Detroit, the highest First World murder capitals at the moment), and bad legacies, along with Vietnam, Taiwan, and Bangladesh, of exploiting their workers HORRIBLY in sweat shops. Or Turkey or Russia, where one can just imagine what jolly old Recyp and Vladimir would have in mind for a wave of migrants - it would make one shudder. And, unless you're Orthodox Jewish, you're not getting citizenship in Israel - that's the Right of the Return. So, where is the better place to go as a migrant? Where is the Shangri-La?

That's my point. There are people living in these Western nations who are continually telling us how horrid it is in the West, if the worst that can happen to you in the US is a president tweeting something that is "mean" then it's no wonder the entire world is trying to get in. But they just don't see it like that, because they live in this sheltered world and no understanding what true equality actually is. Do you really want true equality?

The part I wrote about the celebrities who threatened to leave the US if Trump was elected was one of the most hilarious things I think has happened in modern US political history, The only one that tops it was the Melania Trump speech she copied from Michelle Obama, and the funny part was not because she copied it, but how it was handled by the media and people in general before it was realized how similar the speeches where, to give you some idea, when Melania Trump read the speech it was criticized as being "bland", "boring", "worst speech ever" among other things, take note this was BEFORE anyone realized how similar it was to Michelle Obama's speech, then when people started to notice the similarities, it was realized that the same media and people in general had grandiosely praised Michelle Obama's speech, if it was the same speech then why did these very same people not praise Melania Trumps speech? Over the next few days articles, tweets and postings mysteriously disappeared that criticized Melania Trumps speech.

 

[Old Hippy]

The only one that tops it was the Melania Trump speech she copied from Michelle Obama, and the funny part was not because she copied it, but how it was handled by the media and people in general before it was realized how similar the speeches where, to give you some idea, when Melania Trump read the speech it was criticized as being "bland", "boring", "worst speech ever"

every good Shrek deserves to find their own Trollmate....

 

[Modder_Mode]

every good Shrek deserves to find their own Trollmate....

Don't be prejudice against green people, green people have enough problems in the world as it is...

 

[Patine]

Don't be prejudice against green people, green people have enough problems in the world as it is...

Green with envy, or green with greed? Or just sickly green at the gills?

 

[Modder_Mode]

Green with envy, or green with greed? Or just sickly green at the gills?

He did get me though, it was a bit of a troll, but it wasn't that intentional as the celebrity vs Trump thing reminded me of the Melania Trump vs Michelle Obama speech controversy so I had to post it.

 

[Estebonrober]

That's my point. There are people living in these Western nations who are continually telling us how horrid it is in the West, if the worst that can happen to you in the US is a president tweeting something that is "mean" then it's no wonder the entire world is trying to get in. But they just don't see it like that, because they live in this sheltered world and no understanding what true equality actually is. Do you really want true equality?

The part I wrote about the celebrities who threatened to leave the US if Trump was elected was one of the most hilarious things I think has happened in modern US political history, The only one that tops it was the Melania Trump speech she copied from Michelle Obama, and the funny part was not because she copied it, but how it was handled by the media and people in general before it was realized how similar the speeches where, to give you some idea, when Melania Trump read the speech it was criticized as being "bland", "boring", "worst speech ever" among other things, take note this was BEFORE anyone realized how similar it was to Michelle Obama's speech, then when people started to notice the similarities, it was realized that the same media and people in general had grandiosely praised Michelle Obama's speech, if it was the same speech then why did these very same people not praise Melania Trumps speech? Over the next few days articles, tweets and postings mysteriously disappeared that criticized Melania Trumps speech.

This is fine and all but it does not excuse inaction about problems we know we have in our society. Just because your neighbor trashed his front yard doesn’t make it okay to trash your backyard.

 

[inthesomeday]

Why would people want to come to the West? I've heard its terribly racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist, Islamaphobic and bigoted among other things, why would millions risk life and death to try and get there, it just makes no sense...
And they certainly wouldn't want to go to the US as it's Governed by a tyrannical dictator, even loads of celebrities who claimed that if he ever got elected said they would leave the US... not to Mexico, not the Middle East, not Africa, but Canada...a majority white western nation...seems pretty racist if you ask me, oh and they never left by the way, very honourable people, one that even threatened physical violence against a democratically elected president, yeh great people they are, lecturing about climate change and how poor people must change their ways to stop global warming all the whilst jet-setting around the globe enjoying luxurious holidays out on their yachts and munching on glorious meals in their 20 bedroom mansions and cruising the streets in their million dollar sports cars as people sit back with their smart phones liking and sharing tweets these same celebrities pontificate on how "we" need to do more to stop climate change....One even advocating for Socialism....just as long as his fortune isn't touched, he doesn't know what equality actually is, you see its easy to just say a bunch of good words and catch phrases than actually do anything, hurt feelings are much more important than truths and actions.

Who are you talking to?

 

[Traitorfish]

It's because they will work for rates New Zealanders won't and they can be ignorant of labour laws. There's been several cases of labour exploitation here including a conviction for slavery our first one. Person responsible was also a migrants
who was exploiting their own people. Some have also been busted paying less than half minimum wage.

Do you imagine that a government that is incapable or unwilling of enforcing labour laws will be, somehow, capable and willing to enforce immigration laws?

Another employer who was paying slightly above minimum wage was complaining about a lack of workers and saying young NZers had a lack of work ethics. Was paying 18 dollars an hour in Queenstown. Queenstown costs around $500 a week for a room and in hospitality you might not get a 40 hour week. In the 90s we used to go to Central Otago for work it's not worth it now.

Does it not strike you that the employer who refuses to offer more than starvation wages might be the root problem, and not the immigrant who works for them? Do you really think that we can trick him into offering a living wage by manipulating the labour market?

 

[inthesomeday]

Do you imagine that a government that is incapable or unwilling of enforcing labour laws will be, somehow, capable and willing to enforce immigration laws?

Mmm, I could imagine a government capable but unwilling to enforce labor laws that is simultaneously overzealous in enforcing immigration laws. But it is certainly not New Zealand.

 

[Estebonrober]

Mmm, I could imagine a government capable but unwilling to enforce labor laws that is simultaneously overzealous in enforcing immigration laws. But it is certainly not New Zealand.

Final Jeopardy theme music starts playing in head. . ./s

 

[Zardnaar]

Do you imagine that a government that is incapable or unwilling of enforcing labour laws will be, somehow, capable and willing to enforce immigration laws?


Does it not strike you that the employer who refuses to offer more than starvation wages might be the root problem, and not the immigrant who works for them? Do you really think that we can trick him into offering a living wage by manipulating the labour market?

It is the cause of the problem, but they lobby the government to let the immigrants in. I don't blame the immigrants at all.

See previous comments about the law being used on the businesses, and fixing economic problems. They need to pay 20 to 25 an hour in those parts of the country and the costs an be passed on to the tourists.

Queenstown is NZs version of Aspen.

 

[Patine]

It is the cause of the problem, but they lobby the government to let the immigrants in. I don't blame the immigrants at all.

See previous comments about the law being used on the businesses, and fixing economic problems. They need to pay 20 to 25 an hour in those parts of the country and the costs an be passed on to the tourists.

Queenstown is NZs version of Aspen.

First of all, I'd say a claim that such laws outright "fix" local economic problems is almost certainly VERY optimistic and overstated, in any case. Also, if I recall correctly, NZ$20-$25 is a notable (but not large) drop in value from Canadian dollars (I can't remember the exchange rate off hand) and is not really THAT much as a wage, perhaps not even a "living wage."

 

[Zardnaar]

First of all, I'd say a claim that such laws outright "fix" local economic problems is almost certainly VERY optimistic and overstated, in any case. Also, if I recall correctly, NZ$20-$25 is a notable (but not large) drop in value from Canadian dollars (I can't remember the exchange rate off hand) and is not really THAT much as a wage, perhaps not even a "living wage."

It's around $13 to $18 USD.

A lot of jobs in NZ dont pay that though. 70% don't get the average wage.

Low wages high rent and mortgages.

 

[EnglishEdward]

The three words "Far Right Ideology" is a contradiction in terms.

There is a long list of such contadictions:

United in Diversity
Independence Within the EU

etc

 

[Patine]

It's around $13 to $18 USD.

A lot of jobs in NZ dont pay that though. 70% don't get the average wage.

Low wages high rent and mortgages.

So how would Fascists solve the problems of New Zealand, considering a lot of your posts previously in this thread have been carrying on about an "empathy" and "understanding" of why Fascists "were viewed as having the solutions and seen as a lesser evil" against the "threat of Communism, immigrants, and economic collapse?" What magic wand and fairy dust could Fascistic thinking and rhetoric apply to New Zealand's crippling issues?

 

[Traitorfish]

The three words "Far Right Ideology" is a contradiction in terms.

There is a long list of such contadictions:

United in Diversity
Independence Within the EU

etc

You're going to have to break this one done for us.

 

[Kyriakos]

There can be "far right ideology", it just will be rather vile. An ideology only has to present a set of ideas and an outline of a system (in this case tied to a type of government).
Moreover, it is usually "center" parties that have little to no ideology (to be precise, politicians within those parties). Lifestyle politicians are a good example of this.

I think that having some ideology is good if one is a politician, cause it gives some estimate to their voters about what they will try to do. Else you end up with something like Tony Blair, and ultimately the second invasion of Iraq and the manufactured "proof" of WMDs.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The three words "Far Right Ideology" is a contradiction in terms.

There is a long list of such contadictions:

United in Diversity
Independence Within the EU

etc

...What?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Perhaps "ideology" has some long and tortuous etymology that ultimately leads to a word meaning "left" or something? I doubt it, but that's the only way I can make sense of that statement.