Lexicus
Deity
I'm going to assume you haven't read any works by Nazi philosophers or theorists, and accordingly I'm going to go ahead and dismiss your opinion out of hand.
Far right violence
- Thread starter aelf
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I'm going to assume you haven't read any works by Nazi philosophers or theorists, and accordingly I'm going to go ahead and dismiss your opinion out of hand.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Of course. But when you murder someone, that's your right-wing side taking control. I mean this is self-evident and doesn't need any justification. Obviously.
civver_764
Deity
I'll go ahead and take that as an admission of defeat.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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I read the book by David Irving on the Goebbels diaries, Mastermind of the 3rd Reich. Is that any help?
Lexicus
Deity
When you murder someone because they're a foreigner, yes, that is an act of right-wing political violence. Sorry you don't want to admit it or whatever. Tell me, is it because you hate foreigners and don't want to be identified as right-wing, or are you right-wing and don't want to be identified with hating foreigners?
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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Yeahno.
Nazi ideology explicitly saw violence as inherent in creating and maintaining a pure Aryan race. Violence and conflict kept the race strong and would allow the Aryans to triumph over all in an apocalyptic clash of civilizations. For the Nazis it wasn't just a matter of "lets murder several million sub-humans, then we will have superior Aryan skull shape throughout the Reich". Murdering untold millions of sub-humans was inherent and inseparable from Nazi ideology.
aelf
Ashen One
Maybe you're not familiar with all other kinds of ethics except consequentialism?
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Excuse me for interrupting, but doesn't the emboldened imply that the ongoing violence was a means to the end of "creating and maintaining a pure Aryan race"?
If violence was an end in itself (the only alternative to "means to an end" that I can see, for the moment), they'd have been violent with everyone, including themselves, all the time when they weren't actually pausing to draw breath.
Still. Maybe I'm missing something, here.
But when I demonstrate for something (what I have not done in 30 years)
I'd rather be beaten up (to some degree) than be in a inhuman prison.
For my feel that imprisoning is state violence with the object to surpress
Anyway... perhaps it is better to keep this thread restricted to the accute physical violence.
aelf
Ashen One
No, not violence in itself, but more specifically violence towards people who are different.
aelf
Ashen One
I wouldn't deny that.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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It's neither. I'm not right wing and I don't hate foreigners. But I COULD hate foreigners and still not be right wing. This is my whole problem with this actually, you're just defining hating foreigners (although not sure why suddenly "Muslims" has turned into "foreigners") as inherently right-wing, and a political stance. Which to me is a bit stupid and simplistic. Actually that whole post I just quoted was stupid. Angsty teen belligerant effluence really.
But snarkiness aside, I did bring up a real couterpoint, UK-centric as it may be, which (obviously) went ignored. It's routinely stated that a primary motivation for Brexit "Leave" voters is immigration, and that this is of course then linked with xenophobia, Islamaphobia, etc etc. But it's also known that "Leave" was popular in vast swathes of the traditional Labour heartland. Labour being the left-wing party. So I want to know how you fit this in your world view. The obvious options would seem to be:
1) Those aren't "real" left-wingers. The "no true socialist" fallacy?
2) Having concerns about immigration isn't actually synonymous with hatred of foreigners after all.
3) The primary motivation of Leave voters wasn't actually immigration after all.
I mean my answer would be:
4) Hatred/fear of "the other" isn't necessarily something that's directly tied to your positioning on the left-right spectrum at all.
But I suppose to be fair you've already answered that. You state that it's possible to hold right-wing and left-wing views at the same time (which is true of course), and you're defining hatred of foreigners as right-wing by definition, so if even the leftiest of lefties indulges in any hatred of foreigners, that's still going to be "right-wing violence" in your eyes. Which is what I already said and you got all snarky about. So forget it I suppose.
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Lexicus
Deity
The Nazis essentially did end up consuming themselves.
...which honestly makes the whole "right/left-wing" dichotomy largely meaningless, or at least extremely arbitrary.
Berzerker
Deity
didn't the khmer rouge hate foreigners so much they slaughtered their own countrymen for showing any evidence of foreign influence, like even eyeglasses?
Lexicus
Deity
What, and you think the Khmer Rouge were leftists?
