Favorite of the EU 25 largest cities

[Arakhor]

Cardiff is a bit of a dive, my friend. It has a nice museum, but London outstrips Cardiff on that respect.

 

[Verbose]

Furthermore, the old limited adminstrative borders of the city gives a very restricted image of what is "Paris"

I have the distinct impression it's only these admin borders which makes Paris weigh only as the fifth largest city in the EU on that list.

That kind of problem goes for all these cities it seems. What seems to be counted is a limited city center thing. Which means almost all the people in the Berlin metropolitan region get counted, but just a fraction of the Paris one. Or Sofia weighs in at an impressively high position, since it has over a million people in it's city center, but less than 1,4 in its metropolitan region. Stockholm otoh didn't make the list, barely, but is at 2 million if counting the metropolitan region (i.e. not just the tiny city center inside the historic customs border).

So the list is kind of "Who has the larger city center population? And we draw our borders a leetel arbitrarily different".

 

[classical_hero]

So London is more of a dive?

 

[Arakhor]

Parts of London are certainly dives, but I was meaning the museums. The British Museum is outstanding and free to enter.

 

[kronic]

I have the distinct impression it's only these admin borders which makes Paris weigh only as the fifth largest city in the EU on that list.

That kind of problem goes for all these cities it seems. What seems to be counted is a limited city center thing. Which means almost all the people in the Berlin metropolitan region get counted, but just a fraction of the Paris one. Or Sofia weighs in at an impressively high position, since it has over a million people in it's city center, but less than 1,4 in its metropolitan region. Stockholm otoh didn't make the list, barely, but is at 2 million if counting the metropolitan region (i.e. not just the tiny city center inside the historic customs border).

So the list is kind of "Who has the larger city center population? And we draw our borders a leetel arbitrarily different".

And what is wrong with that?

Btw, I personally like it that only the intra muros area is counted as Paris. Having spent a year in Paris, I would never consider most of what lies outside of the city itself actually to be part of Paris. It just feels different.

Apart from that, I find it amusing that Marla gets all worked up about how Paris is not #1 in terms of population, importance or whatever. Who cares, really?

 

[metatron]

London can't be allowed to win this.
And Munich is just outright disgusting.

Among the cities that have any chance of catching up to London Amsterdam seems to have the best chances. And i like it. So i'll go with that.

Prague all the way.

On second thought, that would have been a good idea as well.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Pembroke is also a nice but small city

 

[Mise]

I have the distinct impression it's only these admin borders which makes Paris weigh only as the fifth largest city in the EU on that list.

That kind of problem goes for all these cities it seems. What seems to be counted is a limited city center thing. Which means almost all the people in the Berlin metropolitan region get counted, but just a fraction of the Paris one. Or Sofia weighs in at an impressively high position, since it has over a million people in it's city center, but less than 1,4 in its metropolitan region. Stockholm otoh didn't make the list, barely, but is at 2 million if counting the metropolitan region (i.e. not just the tiny city center inside the historic customs border).

So the list is kind of "Who has the larger city center population? And we draw our borders a leetel arbitrarily different".

Do people who live in the wider metropolitan areas around Paris-proper consider themselves Parisien? Are they governed under the same authorities as Paris's centre? I think the fact that the London metropolitan area (Greater London) is governed by an overarching London Assembly helps to make anyone in that area feel like "Londoners", which increases the sense that London is the centre of the universe for those people. The fact that people in the arse end of nowhere (e.g. Croydon, Romford, etc) can still legitimately claim to be Londoners, despite living and working nowhere near the city's centre, is kind of important in understanding why people still want London's financial district, say, to be the global centre of financial gravity. It's why people are proud of living in "London", even though it takes them up to an hour to get to St Paul's Cathederal, the Tower of London, or Buckingham Palace. Hell, even people in commuter-belt towns such as Crawley, Luton, Bracknell, and Colchester consider themselves "Londoners", or hold a special place in their psyche for the city, either because they work there themselves or have worked there some time in their past.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not just a matter of arbitrarily defined boundaries, but about the way people see themselves and the city. It's not just the tiny walled city, whose boundaries can still be gleened from the various "gates" barely a mile apart, but the entire metropolitan area, and even the commuter belt beyond it, who consider themselves to be part of London. I have no idea about Paris or Frankfurt or Stockholm or anywhere else, but I'd imagine that sense of identity simply isn't as strong in the suburbs of those cities, let alone their neighbouring towns. The fact that the entire 7.5m population elects and is governed by a single London Assembly and Mayor speaks to that sense of unity.

 

[Verbose]

Out of curiosity about the inbuilt problems of making a top-list like this, I went and fast-and-dirty googled the cities on the list (something to count, yay!), and some possible hopeful extra candidates (there are obviously other candidates as well). And came up with the following (city centre first, then metro area):

London / 7,6 mil / 14 mil
Berlin / 3,4 mil / 4,4 mil
Madrid / 3,3 mil / 6 mil
Rome / 2,7 mil / 3,70 mil
Paris / 2,2 mil / 11 mil
Bucharest / 1,94 mil / 2,25 mil
Hamburg / 1,8 mil / 3 mil
Budapest / 1,7 mil / 2,5 mil
Warsaw / 1,7 mil / 3,2 mil
Vienna / 1,69 mil / 2,27 mil
Barcelona / 1,64 mil / 3 mil
Milan / 1,32 mil / 4 mil
Munich / 1,3 mil / 2,5 mil
Lyon / 0,48 mil / 1,76 mil
Valencia / 0,8 mil / 2,3 mil
Prague / 1,3 mil / 2,3 mil
Sofia / 1,16 mil / 1,37 mil
Marseille / 0,85 mil / 1,6 mil
Brussels / 0,15 mil / 2 mil
Naples / 1 mil / 4,4 mil
Birmingham / 1 mil / 2,3 mil
Cologne / 1 mil / 4,4 mil
Turin / 0,96 mil / 1,7 mil
Athens / 0,75 mil / 4,2 mil
Amsterdam / 0,77 mil / 2,2 mil

Stockholm / 0,85 mil / 2 mil
Copenhagen / 1,2 mil / 1,9 mil
Helsinki / 0,59 mil / 1 mil
Oslo / 0,9 mil / 1,2 mil

Lisbon / 0,5 mil / 2,8 mil
Dublin / 0,5 mil / 1,66 mil

All in all, at least Lyon, Sofia, Marseilles, Brussels and Turin might not be the best motivated selections compared to some other possible inclusions.

 

[Whomp]

I'd say Paris though Prague and Vienna were more fun probably because of the company I was with and met.

 

[Leoreth]

Interesting to see London getting all the attention of this thread. Economically and demographically speaking, both Paris and London have about the same weight in the EU. However, Paris is totally forgotten here.

This tends to prove how Paris got distanced in the recent years. Paris is passionately hated by French people, and more and more ignored by the rest of the world.

On the other side, London is loved and promoted by everyone in the UK, and it catched the attention of the rest of the world as the economical capital of the EU. This trend is probably fueled by the image of London as a flourishing city. And this perceived prosperity of London could be explained by the fact it's a financial capital in a global economy more and more dominated by the financial sector. We could also add the fact it's an English speaking city, which makes it a lot more accessible to the rest of the world.

Overall, Paris should really reconsider itself. Paris should stop thinking itself at a national level and assumes itself at the global level. No matter if we like it or not, Paris is the undisputable capital of the French speaking world. It's not just a French city anymore. Furthermore, the old limited adminstrative borders of the city gives a very restricted image of what is "Paris" (an old and dirty city center which doesn't evolve), I think Parisians should really call fastly for the creation of a Greater Paris which would clearly help the city to eventually deal with its own problem at the right scale.

Well, this thread is about favorite cities, which for most people means the city they'd like to visit/live in most, not economic importance etc. Paris is still liked for its "old and dirty centre" - I mean, people still visit the city mainly to see the Louvre, Eiffel Tower and whatnot. The "city of love" cliche seems to help a lot. What puts me off in Paris is that this cliche is so prevalent everywhere, and that a lot of people working directly with visitors are genuinely unkind (my perception). No one visits a city because it has fancy skyscrapers, at least.

And frankly, I wouldn't put Paris on par with London in importance as a financial centre either.

 

[classical_hero]

Parts of London are certainly dives, but I was meaning the museums. The British Museum is outstanding and free to enter.

I did not what you meant. Shouldn't they be charging for entry to the museum now that there is a massive black hole in the UK budget?

 

[Arakhor]

All national museums are free to the public. I doubt that they want to be seen to be taxing national learning on top of the student riots.

 

[Abaddon]

I want to visit Amsterdamn
Not to fussed about elsewhere.

 

[classical_hero]

All national museums are free to the public. I doubt that they want to be seen to be taxing national learning on top of the student riots.

They have to make money some way. These things are not free so it comes out of your pocket either way. I know here we pay for our visits to museums and the like.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, maybe they could start by taxing obscenely rich people, levying more money from the banks and raising duty on cigarettes, alcohol and petrol. Increasing museum fees just discriminates against those who want to learn.

 

[metatron]

Cologne / 1 mil / 4,4 mil

*giggle*
Some 2.5 mil of those 4.4 mil would start a knifefight over this.

 

[Dachs]

And Munich is just outright disgusting.

Nastiest bathroom I've ever been in was there.

 

[Quackers]

You can do anything in London. Everything is open like 24/7 - there are resteraunts/bars/clubs EVERYWHERE it is so easy to have a good time. Shame it is so expensive . ..and for some reason I get strangely intoxicated on a friday/saturday night when everybody is out to have a good time it is a really optimisitc atmosphere - it probably turns ugly often but I've never seen that. I've probably spent about 2-3 weeks in London since december - so i approach it more from a touristy POV not as a living and working place (where a lot of people have put London down on that). Plus as Arakhor says there is a lot of musuems so if you wanna drag your GF to the history musuem (i did ) for free of charge you can! Holocaust memorial exhbition - perfect date!

In Plymouth where I am atm there is about 5 clubs - 2 of them are chains one of them is really chavvy and the remainer is good but not sick.

EDIT: I have only been to London properly, I have been driven through Paris. I have not been to any other city on that list xD

 

[Verbose]

*giggle*
Some 2.5 mil of those 4.4 mil would start a knifefight over this.

Hey, all these numbers are in fact a bit of a mess, if one looks too hard into them.
I'm erring on the side of going with the highest aggregate figure if presented with a choice.