[RD] Feminism

[Valka D'Ur]

I see. Wasn't a jab at you though, the name of the site just sounds like slang that was cool around 10-20+ year ago, when fast food was "cool" and people wrote everything with a z, because that was "hip".

I wouldn't know about that; I'm generally not someone who follows trends or even notices them until they get pointed out.

I'm trying to think if any of the iconic lolcat characters are usually considered female. The only one that comes to mind is Grumpy Cat. Business Cat is male, and so are Ceiling Cat, Basement Cat, and Happy Cat. Chemistry Cat gives the impression of a feline mad scientist, and of course those are all male.

Definitely a gender imbalance in the lolcat world...

 

[Honor]

Some more reading material:

Cooperation and competition in peaceful societies
http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.121.2.299
Excerpt: "Most of the world's nonviolent societies base their peaceful worldviews on cooperation and an opposition to competition. Although they have nurturant, affiliative societies, many raise their children to be hesitant and fearful about the intentions of others so that they will internalize nonviolent values and never take their peacefulness, or that of others, for granted. The children in these societies lack competitive games; although they are loved as babies, by the time they are 2 or 3 years old. they are made to feel no more important than others. These societies devalue achievement because it leads to competition and aggressiveness, which leads to violence they feel. Their rituals reinforce their cooperative, harmonious beliefs and behaviors. They have internalized their peaceful, cooperative values so that their psychological structures accord with their beliefs in nonviolence."

Conflict Resolution among Peaceful Societies: The Culture of Peacefulness
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022343396033004003
Excerpt: "Several common notions about conflict and conflict resolution that are asserted by Western scholars can be questioned in light of the success of these societies in peacefully resolving conflicts: namely, that violent conflict is inevitable in all societies; that punishment and armed force prevent internal and external violence; that political structures are necessary to prevent conflicts; and that conflict should be viewed as positive and necessary. The contrary evidence is that over half of the peaceful societies have no recorded violence; they rarely punish other adults (except for the threat of ostracism); they handle conflicts with outside societies in the same peaceful ways that they approach internal conflicts; they do not look to outside governments when they have internal disputes; and they have a highly negative view of conflict."

The Anthropology of Peace and Nonviolence
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0392192116648597
Excerpt: "The accumulating scientific evidence proves that nonviolent and peaceful societies not only exist, but are actually the norm throughout human prehistory and history. This scientific fact is elucidated through a historical inventory of the most important documentation. Ethnographic cases are summarized of the Semai as a nonviolent society, the transition from killing to nonkilling of the Waorani, and the critiques of the representation of the Yanomami as a killing society. Several of the most important cross-cultural studies are discussed. The assertions of some of the most vocal opponents to this paradigm are refuted. The systemic cultural and ideological bias privileging violence and war over nonviolence and peace is documented."

Warless Societies and the Origin of War
https://books.google.com.tr/books?hl=en&lr=&id=iUkW4I6gKSoC

Moderator Action: Link dumps, regardless of how relevant, are not permitted in an RD thread and are considered spam. Remember to accompany links with a thought or argument from your part in order to move the discussion forward. One point infraction. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[civver_764]

Finding one rich black family doesn't disprove racism in America. Finding a male slave doesn't disprove patriarchy in Rome.

Or was it some other point you wanted addressing?

You're completely missing the point. The role of men was much closer to that of a slave than the role of women.

Women may have been treated as property, but men were treated as less than property.

 

[caketastydelish]

Sorry, but you are talking out of your ass. By this point, I am quite embarrassed to be on 'your side' of the debate. Jesus.

Moderator Action: Please be nicer to people, even if you disagree with their thought processes and beliefs. Flaming isn't very kind. One point infraction. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Lexicus]

The role of men was much closer to that of a slave than the role of women.

Cutting-edge developments in Ancient Roman history right here folks

 

[civver_764]

Sorry, but you are talking out of your ass. By this point, I am quite embarrassed to be on 'your side' of the debate. Jesus.

I'm not. Step back from the feminist brainwashing and really think about it. I find it incredibly ironic that you are using the same shaming tactics you were ranting about previously.

Men were expected to work and provide for their women, just like slaves were expected to work and provide for their masters.

Men were trained from childhood to be ready to die. They were expected to die in protection for their women. They were trained to derive their value from their willingness to fight, die, work hard jobs, and take care of a family.

We have really done an injustice to the male gender in our analysis of history.

 

[aelf]

"You are all wrong! I am the victim!"

MRAs become that which they hate, just like their kissing cousins, the anti-PC brigade.

 

[Akka]

Men were expected to work and provide for their women, just like slaves were expected to work and provide for their masters.

You're expected to provide and care for your animal pets, and you need to work to afford their food and so on.
Does that mean you're their slave ?

 

[civver_764]

"You are all wrong! I am the victim!"

MRAs become that which they hate, just like their kissing cousins, the anti-PC brigade.

You are highlighting one of the greatest double standards of our culture. That when women see themselves as the victims they deserve emotional support, but when men see themselves as the victims they deserve mockery.

Also noteworthy is that you provided no argument, instead opting to take advantage of these sexist attitudes. You are truly a force for equality.

 

[caketastydelish]

I'm not. Step back from the feminist brainwashing and really think about it. I find it incredibly ironic that you are using the same shaming tactics you were ranting about previously.

Even the feminists are not as brainwashed as you are.

Men were trained from childhood to be ready to die. They were expected to die in protection for their women.

No. The vast majority of the men were not in the army.

work hard jobs, and take care of a family.

And women also worked. And women also took care of their families.

We have really done an injustice to the male gender in our analysis of history.

You don't even realize what you're saying. That's the sad part. I think if you knew what you were saying, you wouldn't be saying it.

 

[civver_764]

You're expected to provide and care for your animal pets, and you need to work to afford their food and so on.
Does that mean you're their slave ?

In a sense, yes.

No. The vast majority of the men were not in the army.

And zero women were in the army. You're also ignoring that manual labor was expected exclusively of men.

And women also worked. And women also took care of their families.

Of course they did. I'm not devaluing their work. I think it is most accurate to say that men and women were enslaved to each other, or rather that people in general were slaves to their gender roles. What I absolutely object to is the notion that women were enslaved by men, and that men have had it better off throughout history.

 

[caketastydelish]

And zero women were in the army.

This is your only valid point.

manual labor was expected exclusively of men.

Wrong.

Of course they did. I'm not devaluing their work. I think it is most accurate to say that men and women were enslaved to each other, or rather that people in general were slaves to their gender roles. What I absolutely object to is the notion that women were enslaved by men, and that men have had it better off throughout history.

Men had it better throughout history. Bringing up male homicide rates and suicide rates is one thing, but to completely deny male privilege is another.

 

[civver_764]

That's the thing though. We always talk about male privilege. We never talk about female privilege.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You're expected to provide and care for your animal pets, and you need to work to afford their food and so on.
Does that mean you're their slave ?

In a sense, yes.

So we've all be operating under the oppression of petriarchy all this while?

 

[Senethro]

Female privilege in history - the freedom from education, property rights, and a very long yet incomplete list i posted 20 pages ago.

 

[caketastydelish]

That's the thing though. We always talk about male privilege. We never talk about female privilege.

I did mention things like homicide rates and suicide rates. There's also that men are afraid to openly admit that they feel vulnerable and ask for help (men are far less likely than women to go to see a therapist, among other things).

None of this invalidates male privilege, though.

Anyway, what I said about Brock Turner and his family also applies to you. 'You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself'.

 

[civver_764]

Anyway, what I said about Brock Turner and his family also applies to you. 'You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself'.

Guess how many damns I don't give. I'm happy to engage in discussion, but if you're just here to shame me then please keep your comments to yourself.

Female privilege in history - the freedom from education, property rights, and a very long yet incomplete list i posted 20 pages ago.

Female privileges throughout history:

-freedom from danger
-freedom from physically demanding labor
-freedom from the draft
-freedom to access wealth through seduction rather than work
-freedom from homelessness
-freedom from needing a job
-freedom from financial responsibility
-emotional validation

 

[caketastydelish]

Guess how many damns I don't give. I'm happy to engage in discussion, but if you're just here to shame me then please keep your comments to yourself.

I've done it to others, and so have you.

-freedom from danger
-freedom from physically demanding labor

Neither of these is true.

-freedom from the draft

This is your only valid point.

-freedom to access wealth through seduction rather than work

Lol

-freedom from homelessness

Wrong.

-freedom from needing a job

Not allowed to work = freedom from needing a job.

-freedom from financial responsibility

Not allowed to finance their own money = freedom from financial responsibility.

-emotional validation

It is true that women are allowed to feel more vulnerable and ask for help. I'll give you partial credit for this one.

 

[Senethro]

I agree that this is a space that is not the venue for rape jokes, which is why I didn't make any, not once during the years that I was active in these forums.

But saying that I can't say that I enjoy rape jokes is ridiculous. As is the idea that because I enjoy rape jokes I find the actual idea that somebody has been raped raped to be funny.

If somebody is so desperate to have something to complain about that they're hurt because of what i do or do not enjoy, then that's their problem, not mine.

Every time you tell a rape joke, you're winking at the unidentified rapists in your social circle (because they rarely volunteer themselves) and condoning their behaviour to their faces.

Try making analogies in your head with racist jokes and consider who you tell those to. See if that gives any useful rules of thumb.

 

[civver_764]

Neither of these is true.

When compared to men, yes they are. Women are undoubtedly privileged in this regard.

Lol

It might be uncomfortable to hear, but it's true.

Wrong.

Again, when compared to men women are undoubtedly the privileged sex in this regard.

Not allowed to work = freedom from needing a job.

Yeah, I'm sure they were dying to go work the dangerous, physically demanding jobs that their husbands were. Even now, women have the option to work these jobs and by and large choose not to.

Not allowed to finance their own money = freedom from financial responsibility.

They were given control over their husbands money, but he was the one liable if they got into debt.