FfH2 0.20 Balance Feedback

[Sureshot]

are manes even for the purpose of fighting? i thought they were just for making your cities bigger..

 

[Sureshot]

He would kill Runes of Kilmorph guys and they would pop in his capital with their full experience total as Angels.

ya i did this too.. while i can see some reasoning for it, it should propably be changed so that if basium kills a runes unit of another civ that they don't join as angels

 

[Black Attila]

build rangers, you can get them faster than the order or veil are founded, and they're 7 strength and move 2.

if someone rushes for units a tier above yours, you're going to be in trouble unless you do similarly.

Well Rangers are actually 6 STR now, and that is well enough, but their penalty vs cities while Archers with their 4 defense and city defense bonuses can repel them easily enough.

Also you can't mass produce them the way Basium will and does with his angels.

 

[Sureshot]

i said rangers thinking you were having problems defending against angels.

if you want to go out demolishing enemies then mass produce macemen, which is about the same research as founding the order or veil. if you research OO before anyone gets tier 2 units its easy to destroy enemies as well.

and basiums angels only come if runes and order are dying, killing them yourself seems wrong.

 

[Black Attila]

QUOTE=Sureshot;5116274]i said rangers thinking you were having problems defending against angels.

if you want to go out demolishing enemies then mass produce macemen, which is about the same research as founding the order or veil. if you research OO before anyone gets tier 2 units its easy to destroy enemies as well.

and basiums angels only come if runes and order are dying, killing them yourself seems wrong.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't the subject of his attack, although if I was, he would have crushed me as well. I understand anyone who rushes a tier 3 unit into play quick enough can maraude his/her enemy. However, a good attack on a civ is to have perhaps 5-10 macemen pour into an unsuspecting land with only tier 1 and 2 units available to them. Not 70!! What he performed was a massacre and I felt there was no real strategy to the whole thing. His victory was very cheap to me and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

As far as killing Kilmorph people for gaining Angels, it wasn't his fault as they're the ones who declared war on him.

I'm sure when the computer controls them, they'll play horribly and not take advantage of their situation. Why don't you accuire the gate and see how it fares for you. I bet you'll kick ass.

Also remember. You could beeline for your troups and get Basium as well. Basium doesn't go to the Order religeon. Anyone(good or Neutral that is) can build the Mercurian gate when the Ashen Veil is founded. Even I could have with Cassiel and could have brought him in quickly with my engineer I was sitting on, but chose not to because my buddy had been working at getting him all game and we just don't screw each other over that way.

 

[Fader55]

After starting a few games, & playing for awhile in each, I think the appearance of the Infernals should be moved back a step.
Founding the Ashen Veil could give you the the rituals/ability to call them, Corruption of Spirit would be a better time for them to appear, giving everyone else a longer time to get setup a little more.

Just my 2 cents.

Fader

 

[Sureshot]

ya, but you gotta wait til ashen is founded, so in truth, it takes even longer to get basium

and i said i just did the same thing, though if he had 70 units, guess what? 70 units died, which means someone had 70 units, so that someone could have rushed with 70 units heh

 

[Fader55]

Onto other topics

Monks still have no upgrade

Grigori Medics upgrade to the Lunotar? In the civilpedia it says Inquistor, but the grigori don't get them getting the above instead.

IMHO, the Lanun land units should start with amphibious.

Again,just my 2 cents

BTW, you guys have outdone yourselves with this new build, all Kudos & etc,etc,etc.

Fader

 

[Sureshot]

Grigori Medics upgrade to the Lunotar? In the civilpedia it says Inquistor, but the grigori don't get them getting the above instead.

lunotars are the Grigori's Unique Unit for Inquisitors, and upgrades always show the base unit type, not the UU

 

[Black Attila]

ya, but you gotta wait til ashen is founded, so in truth, it takes even longer to get basium

and i said i just did the same thing, though if he had 70 units, guess what? 70 units died, which means someone had 70 units, so that someone could have rushed with 70 units heh

You can take this side of thinking now, but try playing a few more times. You may think differently.

I play only on Huge maps with 16 civs, so the killpool is quite large. Perhaps on smaller maps, this works out fine, but on huge maps, no way.

I don't like to play games where there is certain possibility of victory or loss.
That would be like playing a WWII game where one side is Germany and the other is Poland. Not fun at all IMO.

Honestly, they broke the game with fire. A shame since it was such a good game.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Honestly, they broke the game with fire. A shame since it was such a good game.

It's called Beta for a reason, and you can still play the last version if you prefer, though your feedback is helpful.

We're agreed that Basium is too strong. Personally I think that he should only have a chance of gaining angels on unit death, hey, not all dead good guys will want to continue the fight, some might prefer to enjoy the after life. Scaling it to map size would be a good idea as well.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

You can take this side of thinking now, but try playing a few more times. You may think differently.

I play only on Huge maps with 16 civs, so the killpool is quite large. Perhaps on smaller maps, this works out fine, but on huge maps, no way.

I don't like to play games where there is certain possibility of victory or loss.
That would be like playing a WWII game where one side is Germany and the other is Poland. Not fun at all IMO.

Honestly, they broke the game with fire. A shame since it was such a good game.

A Huge map isn't meant for 16 Civs. If you're going to have that many out there, you shouldn't be surprised when things aren't balanced as well as they are when you play with the default options.

 

[Bluenoise]

I'm loving the current build. I haven't noticed this problem of all converting to AV or the order?? Like always with the games I've played only the founding civ ever converts to them, and then rarley. The Shiem founded AV a while back and they're still with Runes, someone founded order but I can even find a single city on the map. Hmmm

I love these huge gang ups the evil civs do on you. I just thought off a combined force of Perpentach, Flauros, Hyborem, Os gabella and Rohana who seems to have just decided to join in for the fun. all but Os gabella were stronger than me too lol. The computer really sucks at tactics unfortunatley. It's rare when I loose a unit even if they're much stronger.

 

[Litpho]

How about converting some of the damage of the Chaos Marauder to Unholy damage? It would make it a lot harder to ward off the Infernals with demonsummoning through Chaos II, something which doesn't even give you a diplomacy bonus.

 

[Yoshi2942]

Just tossing a Thanks you to the team for making the change to the Leaves' Temple. In my latest game I am indeed able to produce enough Bard GPPs to get the Song built. It was frustrating getting 10-20 Priests but not getting any other specialists.

Also, here is a thought -- What if founding the AV wasn't based upon the Tech? What if an event was created based off of the Arm counter whereby if the counter reaches 5 or 10 or something, the AV would auto found? and the AV holy city would be Hyborum's Home. Just tossing the idea out there.

 

[Black Attila]

A Huge map isn't meant for 16 Civs. If you're going to have that many out there, you shouldn't be surprised when things aren't balanced as well as they are when you play with the default options.

???
Then how many are huge maps for? If you can't have 16 CIVs for Huge, then what since it doesn't get any larger.

To me it doesn't matter if some have a little better placement than others. There are advantages to every map and no one is created equal. Equality isn't important to me.

But currently this is out of whack. If you're not Basium or Hyborem, you're screwed. Period!! That kind of handicap or advantage is unacceptable.


Also, while I'm at it. Why on Earth would they nerf Rantine down to a 3!? The Clan have it hard enough. Bronze working isn't hard for other CIVs, but with the Clan's painfully slow research, it is?? I'm not rushing for a leader who is intrisically weaker than an axeman(which you get with Bronze Working ) The world is far too dangerous now for such a weak leader being appointed to a weak Civ.

Barnaxus at 4?? He actually has to work for his experience, which means he'll be competing against really stiff competition(for him) considering that they don't accuire him until Construction. At this stage in the game, Barbarians are even much more scarce to kill. I wasn't happy with him at 5.

There were others, but these two bothered me the most.

 

[Master_Hugian]

Right now I think basiam is over powered only because there is a 100% chance a unit adopts order or runes of kilmorph if its a religion in the town and therefore they would become an angel, once that would be fixed in patch d what would have been 70 angels becomes about 15 or so.

But currently this is out of whack. If you're not Basium or Hyborem, you're screwed. Period!! That kind of handicap or advantage is unacceptable.

I have to disagree, by the time Basiam or Hyborem is in the game I think I could get my 5 confessors with ring of flame, very very effective, they may get a large force but, then, there are many ways to destroy large forces also.

Also, while I'm at it. Why on Earth would they nerf Rantine down to a 3!? The Clan have it hard enough. Bronze working isn't hard for other CIVs, but with the Clan's painfully slow research, it is?? I'm not rushing for a leader who is intrisically weaker than an axeman(which you get with Bronze Working ) The world is far too dangerous now for such a weak leader being appointed to a weak Civ.

Barnaxus at 4?? He actually has to work for his experience, which means he'll be competing against really stiff competition(for him) considering that they don't accuire him until Construction. At this stage in the game, Barbarians are even much more scarce to kill. I wasn't happy with him at 5.

But now they can get bronze and iron weapons

 

[Sureshot]

Right now I think basiam is over powered only because there is a 100% chance a unit adopts order or runes of kilmorph if its a religion in the town and therefore they would become an angel, once that would be fixed in patch d what would have been 70 angels becomes about 15 or so.



I have to disagree, by the time Basiam or Hyborem is in the game I think I could get my 5 confessors with ring of flame, very very effective, they may get a large force but, then, there are many ways to destroy large forces also.


But now they can get bronze and iron weapons

someone who connects the dots! hooray!

ya, last game i played hyborem got smoked before i could meet him or build the mercurian gate, and when i had to fight the mercurians in my other game i smoked those angels for easy xp with ritualists.

about the heroes with "less" strength, they're much better now, since they scale with metals to become significant in the later game as well

 

[Chandrasekhar]

someone who connects the dots! hooray!

ya, last game i played hyborem got smoked before i could meet him or build the mercurian gate, and when i had to fight the mercurians in my other game i smoked those angels for easy xp with ritualists.

about the heroes with "less" strength, they're much better now, since they scale with metals to become significant in the later game as well

Yup, it's good enough that I'm starting to envy the other Civs and religions their melee heroes.

 

[Arwon]

Has Chalid Astrakein always been a melee unit? I was a bit surprised when a summoner hero was given bronze weapons.