First Look: India (Gandhi)

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

China/Brazil-level overpowered

They don't look overpowered to me.

Oddly enough, it seems to get bonus when going to war

Warfare is common in Indian history and the bonus could represent how different religions was formed and have survived in Indian history. India seems to be a top choice for a warmonger in civilization VI.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Good point, though I suspect they will put in a fix that would only have that impact work for ____-era or earlier units, as holding onto a token elephant forever seems to break immersion. Hard to imagine a tank being frightened of an elephant.

It's a game. Anything could work here.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

One thing to add. What I like a lot about this design is that in order to thwart India, the onus is on the player to create chaos in the world. Every civ that's not at each other's throats is feeding him Faith.

Can you purchase nukes with Faith? I doubt it, but even so he will be very dangerous, especially on Pangea where he can pick up boatloads of faith. He may actually be kinda weak if he starts off on Continents and no one else founds a religion there, delaying the Faith battery. But overall he will be cool to see in the game.

That is particularly interesting, both India+Gandhi's UAs are totally dependent on contact with another civ (and mostly on one that has founded a religion*)

*the war weariness bonus works against any other civ

 

[Liex]

The latter. It also means you could save Varu for late-game use.

You mean the former, right?

 

[Staler87]

This has been a six-page Gandhi thread with not one person posting a comment just about how he shouldn't have been chosen this game. To be honest I really didn't think that was possible on this forum.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Ok, after some thought I believe I was wrong, India is quite interesting. My problem with it - it's like playing to loose. You need to accept other civ religions and spread them through your civilization. While this could be interesting strategy, it could be a painful thing to do.

You mean the former, right?

Sorry, maybe my English is not perfect
I meant what Varu decreases strength of any unit nearby, regardless of who attacks it.

 

[shyPiano]

This has been a six-page Gandhi thread with not one person posting a comment just about how he shouldn't have been chosen this game. To be honest I really didn't think that was possible on this forum.

Not entirely true, but when you have a Gandhi with focus on religion and maintaining peace between India and other nations, while at the same time no memes in sight, people do become much more pleased. No overpopulation, and no nukes!

Maybe later on we'll get a second leader for India with a military focus, that would be interesting to see couples with India's Stepwell and multiple founder bonuses. Conquer a city of another religion, get the founder bonus of that religion!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Ok, after some thought I believe I was wrong, India is quite interesting. My problem with it - it's like playing to loose. You need to accept other civ religions and spread them through your civilization. While this could be interesting strategy, it could be a painful thing to do.

If that really bothers you than conquer anyone else that founds a religion and optimize your multireligion empire, internally.

Also, there is a slight nod to the overpopulation with stepwells (+food+ housing) and I'm sure Gandhi will be very liable to use nukes....
(or possibly there is an Industrial era Agenda of "nuke monger" that anyone could randomly get)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

it's like playing to loose

It is more like being able to take advantage of the enemy advantages. India is a warmonger civ and while it do get a bonus then staying peaceful with civs who have founded a religion but all civs who are at war with India suffer war weariness and that is also a bonus.

Each religion it get access to make it stronger and with all the faith it produce it can spread all the religions around and win for example by science thanks to all science it will get from its huge population.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Not entirely true, but when you have a Gandhi with focus on religion and maintaining peace between India and other nations, while at the same time no memes in sight, people do become much more pleased. No overpopulation, and no nukes!

Maybe later on we'll get a second leader for India with a military focus, that would be interesting to see couples with India's Stepwell and multiple founder bonuses. Conquer a city of another religion, get the founder bonus of that religion!

We do have an entire thread dedicated to Gandhi hate

 

[stealth_nsk]

If that really bothers you than conquer anyone else that founds a religion and optimize your multireligion empire, internally.

Yes, that's good idea. But I don't think it's the primary India plan

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

War is Indians game, peace is not a good play for India. If you want a peaceful civ pick Germany or something.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

It is more like being able to take advantage of the enemy advantages.

Yes. The ability to get other religion's religious beliefs bonuses can be quite good. You can be like a religious "Borg", assimilating the religious advantages of other civs. Another civ's religion has a religious belief that gives something you want, like extra amenities or extra housing? Great! Let the religion can into your cities and you suddenly get the bonus too.

 

[criZp]

I really hope extra war weariness doesn't apply to his enemies if he's the aggressor, that doesn't seem to make sense at all.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yes, that's good idea. But I don't think it's the primary India plan

The peaceful way to think of it is as bonus benefits from trade routes, they bring a foreign religion in.
(you still have to push your religion a bit... but just not too hard)


Also, hoping there is some way for cities to get different pantheon bonuses (ie hopefully a conquered city still keeps the founding civs pantheon, unless you suppress it)...

and hopefully you can do something like
founding pantheon+empire pantheon
or if one of your own founded cities
founding/empire pantheon+pantheon of nearest non-self founded city

 

[stealth_nsk]

The peaceful way to think of it is as bonus benefits from trade routes, they bring a foreign religion in.
(you still have to push your religion a bit... but just not too hard)

IMHO it will look like this - you build some shore city and send as much trade routes to civ with another religion. After you get this religion to convert the city, you'll start spawning missionaries from it.

Overall it looks like good idea to:
- Have at least one city with dominance of each religion, so you could produce missionaries.
- Build cities far away from your general pressure to invite other religions.

It all sounds very weird to me. Also, by spreading other religions you boost their founder beliefs.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Can't wait to get all the religions and go all "Life of Pi" on people.

 

[isau]

I really hope extra war weariness doesn't apply to his enemies if he's the aggressor, that doesn't seem to make sense at all.

I think it's perfectly fine. Ghandi is basically a celebrity. War weariness is about public perception and not necessarily reality--and it fits into Civ's Machiavellian view of the world.

That said, I think India's best bet for a win is actually the Culture victory, with some aggression thrown in here and there. The Domination victory option is just one possible path.

(Also seriously too bad they went with "take the capitals" and not "control x% of tiles" for the Dom victory, because India would be incredible at the second version. But here's me whining about the Dom victory again).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

IMHO it will look like this - you build some shore city and send as much trade routes to civ with another religion. After you get this religion to convert the city, you'll start spawning missionaries from it.

Overall it looks like good idea to:
- Have at least one city with dominance of each religion, so you could produce missionaries.
- Build cities far away from your general pressure to invite other religions.

It all sounds very weird to me. Also, by spreading other religions you boost their founder beliefs.

You don't need to do anything with missionaries, or let any other religion become dominant in your cities, instead

1. every city gets at least 1 trade route to civ with a different religion
2. switch the trade routes between multiple civs w different religions

So India should focus on Commercial Hubs and Harbors (and Holy sites for their other abilities)

 

[Barathor]

Certainly interesting, I have yet to see a civilization that I do not want to at least try unlike Civilization V.

Indeed! The replay value of this one seems greater than ever. For quite a few of the civ reveals so far, as I watch the videos and learn about each of them, I keep finding myself going, "Ooh, that's pretty cool; I like it! I can't wait to [role]play as them!"