Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

[2metraninja]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a suggestion for a full treaty from them later today in our email.

Good on you for telling them we are working on draft. Just send them the letter with the draft which I just posted. It is very important that they know we wont wait any more. This sums everything we talked at length these last 5 ! days.

 

[Caledorn]

I have modified what you wrote to be written "in my hand", 2metra. Please look over it before I send it (I will be around for quite some time today, as I'm programming .. I see SQL queries when I close my eyes right now )

I also adjusted point 2.1 as it didn't make sense to me, so please confirm that I have modified it into what the spirit of 2.1 is in your eyes.

scooter/RB,

The team has decided that we will settle 1S of the rice (this means we are fine with getting stone from t106 and not t105).

Here is the formal agreement I spoke of on GTalk, to be signed by your team (I have included BBCode to make it easier for you to post it on your forums):

---
Section 1. Members of the RB-CFC treaty

1.1. Team Realms Beyond

1.2. Team CivFanatics

Section 2. Pact Duration and Terms

2.1. The pact binds both teams to adhering to all of the clauses of the pact as a whole.

2.2. The pact lasts until the beginning of turn 175.

2.3. The members of this pact cannot enter into agreements with third parties which interfere to any of the clauses of this pact.

Section 3. Non Aggression

3.1. The members agree not to conduct actions which will lead to a declaration of war between the members of this pact for the duration of the pact.

Section 4. Open Borders

4.1. Both members agree to maintain an Open Borders treaty to facilitate trade and unit movement for the length of this pact.

Section 5. Resources and future agreements

5.1. Team Realms Beyond agrees to gift Spices happy resource to Team CivFanatics starting from turn 103 and keep providing it for free for the duration of this pact.

5.2. Team Realms Beyond agrees to gift Stone strategic resource to Team CivFanatics starting from turn 106 and keep providing it for free for the duration of this pact.

5.3 Team Realms Beyond agrees to not get Pyramids and Team CivFanatics agrees to not get Hanging Gardens.

5.4 Both teams agree to offer first dibs to newly acquired/unused resources to the other team at an appropriate price (happy resource for happy resource or for a price of 2 GPT per city count of the team receiving the resource)

Section 6. Espionage

6.1. Both members agree to not spend/gain espionage points against eachother.

6.2. Both members agree to not perform espionage actions against eachother .

Section 7. Temporary Exceptions

7.1. Temporary exceptions can be made to the terms of the pact with the express agreement of both members. This is meant to allow either member to react to unforeseen circumstances or circumstances outside of their control.

Section 8. Amendments

8.1. A proposed amendment may be submitted by either member.

8.2. A proposed amendment will be adopted upon agreement of both members.
-----

I think this sums up exactly what we all want from our deal, and we have no problems accepting and signing it in it's current form.

Keep in mind that any additional protective clauses that may be suggested as amendments will be a two-way deal. Both our teams wish to feel secure, so we are open to suggestions for amendments that are rational and maintains the interests of both our teams. We are working on possible additional clauses of the NAP, and we are sure we can come to an agreement on them as soon as the main body of this pact is signed, without any of our teams feeling the weight of time pressure to get this out of the way. Here are some suggestions that we think are rational to put in as clausules:

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3.2. If any of the members is at war with a third party, the other member agrees not to gift units to that third party.
3.3. Both teams agree not to use Great Artists to culture bomb in cities touching culture with culture of the other team.
-----

If you like the suggested amendments, you can include 3.2 and 3.3 in the treaty, and return it to us with your agreement, and we are in agreement. We prefer the main deal without the amendments signed this turn, as we can not afford to postpone settling our city on the isthmus any further, while the deal with the stone from you is still uncertain.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

You forget the other part of their terms to give us stone from t105 - they want 25 turns more NAP Which is the real thing in this case. And I am strongly against it.

I'm strongly against such a long NAP with RB myself. I think even t175 may be too long, but what the heck.

 

[2metraninja]

I also adjusted point 2.1 as it didn't make sense to me, so please confirm that I have modified it into what the spirit of 2.1 is in your eyes.

Yes, makes better sense to me now too. I knew my way of wording it is not the most elegant, but my idea was that "you break one clause and you lose the whole deal".

If you like the suggested amendments, you can include 3.2 and 3.3 in the treaty, and return it to us signedwith your agreement, and we are in agreement have a deal. We prefer want the main deal even without the amendments signed this turn, as we can not afford to postpone settling our city on the isthmus any further, while the deal with the stone from you is still uncertain.

Changed few words here, as it is the strongest and most important message we must send them. Lets capitalize on our "gunboat" diplomacy.

 

[2metraninja]

We have like under 20 hours of this turn. Send it quick and if you can notify Scooter about it. We want the deal signed before the end of this turn or we settle B3 or even further west. If we/they postpone for more formalities and we dont settle this turn, they have outplayed us once again. And this already is not even for only the "B" city, we lose half of our workers just standing there doing nothing, they mess our GPfarm improvement and growth, they mess with our capitol (not having happy res next turn will cause in red faces in Indira), they mess with our future. We must not allow them this.

 

[Caledorn]

Yes, makes better sense to me now too. I knew my way of wording it is not the most elegant, but my idea was that "you break one clause and you lose the whole deal".

Then I got the spirit of what you meant correct.

Changed few words here, as it is the strongest and most important message we must send them. Lets capitalize on our "gunboat" diplomacy.

Modified that as you suggested, and will send it now. I will also notify scooter (although he's asleep now).

 

[2metraninja]

Now we wait. I hate waiting.

 

[Caledorn]

I will probably not be around for at least 8-10 hours now, so if we agree to the 5.5 point with the marble from RB, would someone please log in to our email account and send the following response to RB so the treaty is formalized:

Hey scooter/RB,

I am happy to confirm that we are in agreement. The entire treaty, with the addendums 3.2, 3.3 and 5.5 officially added, is hereby accepted and signed by Team CFC.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[2metraninja]

Just got home from parent-teacher meetings and training. Have to eat something first, then will read, think a bit and answer.

I am glad that we see the happy end of this.

 

[YossarianLives]

Glad to see their speedy response. I don't have any problem with adding Section 5.5. Let's go ahead and send Cal's response, then log in to settle the city and request our free spices. I've noticed that RB has been logging in behind us every time we go into the game this turn, so they should see this and start our gift immediately.

Regarding the culture bombs, this is a tactic that has been used successfully by some of RB's pros (Sullla and Krill) in their recent games. Plant an aggressive city in the middle of two or three rival cities, culture bomb the area, then use the pressure to attack or flip the surrounding cities. The aggressive stone spot we were considering has all the earmarks for such a tactic, so this must have freaked them out.

I think the lesson we take from all of this is that RB respects actions, not words. We get what we want peacefully if they believe we have the ability to take it by force. If we don't show them that we could get what we want with or without their permission, then their answer is a not-so-subtle "F*** YOU"

Edit: Hope the parent-teacher meetings went well. I can only image little mini-ninja's tearing up the schoolyard and giving their teachers grief!

 

[2metraninja]

That is the best we could get I think. Will reply them with our agreement.

 

[2metraninja]

Done.

 

[2metraninja]

Wanted to say to all: Team, well done. Great participation and great discussions. And special mention to Ambassador Caledorn.

Only the time will show if we manage to use such a long NAP with RB better than them and we come ahead during this time, no one knows for sure, but we must try our best.

 

[cav scout]

I would also like to say well done to all- especially Cal for all the time and energy he put into this.

With that said I do want to offer a word of caution. I think we ended up giving RB more than we had to. Their diplo strategy is really good- they put the frog (us) into the cold pot of water and then turned the heat up slowly enough that we didn't jump out. Our gunboat was reduced to a toy boat by the time they were done. RB got everything they wanted- the city south of the oasis, our city not being right up on them, marble when they want it (if we don't hook it up by 150 we have broken the treaty), a promise that we give them resources first, a promise that we don't put any espy on them, a promise that we don't help the teams that they will be attacking etc etc.

Bottom line: RB is laughing their asses off about how they stole our city location and then used it to twist our arm into a bunch of concessions from us.

Can we please stop acting like a bunch of betas in our diplo in the future please?

 

[SilentConfusion]

Just to put it here as well. In Focal Point, RB is building a wonder and has 258h in it so far. It has to have a doubling resource (stone or gold) and it doesn't look to be Hanging Gardens because no aqueduct is visible in the city. We're thinking 'Mids or Schwadagon Paya.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Probably not Mids right? After all the treaty says:

5.3 Team Realms Beyond agrees to not get Pyramids and Team CivFanatics agrees to not get Hanging Gardens.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Probably not Mids right? After all the treaty says:

I doubt they would violate that treaty so quickly. If it is 'Mids, I'd say they're looking for the Fail-Gold. I think S.Paya is more likely. There might be another wonder they have the tech for that is doubled by something they have, but I can't think of it.

 

[talonschild]

Do they have CoL? Because Chichen Itza is a Stone wonder. The Colossus is doubled with Copper, requires Metal Casting.

 

[SilentConfusion]

They might have CoL. Focal Point is not coastal so no Colossus.

 

[2metraninja]

The Colossus is doubled with Copper, requires Metal Casting.

Not only, but also a forge.