2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Yes, this I thought about too, but never actually bothered to discuss, as I think in no case we must give any NAP to RB.
Absolutely true.
Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond
- Thread starter talonschild
- Start date
YossarianLives
Deity
Something interesting I noticed today. Everybody has closed borders with RB except WPC, Poly and us.
It seems you were not following close the forum. I am 100% sure I had few cases where I had said Sullla is the RB mastermind.
I am definitely guilty of not knowing all the details - difficult to follow closely w/o login into the game
I remember you offered we could, but I generally think it is unsafe for a bunch of people to log in just to look (e.g. I could bump into important diplo), especially with my still much too high misclick ratio 
Wrt to Sulla, I remember you said something like that, but it was together with a corollary that their stack will be Sulla's favorite composition, do not remember exactly, tons of cats plus something. And then RB attacked Germans with something else, so I assumed that based on your reasoning Sulla cannot be in charge
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
My assumption about who is in charge at team RB is not based on something I saw in-game.
And it was not something else, it was mainly maces+cats and this is what main RB power comes from. Of course they will produce knights too, as their attack date was a bit late.
And it was not something else, it was mainly maces+cats and this is what main RB power comes from. Of course they will produce knights too, as their attack date was a bit late.My assumption about who is in charge at team RB is not based on something I saw in-game.
I am sorry, then - I thought the RB stack turned out very un-Sulla
YossarianLives
Deity
Chat this morning with Scooter:
Lots of off-topic chatter about the new PitBoss that Maga and Caledorn are organizing.
tldr:
Lots of off-topic chatter about the new PitBoss that Maga and Caledorn are organizing.
tldr:
- Scooter wanted to know about the NAP extension. I told him we're voting and I'll get back to him at the end of the week
- I ask about the German war, he directs me to CivStats which shows that the Germans have been eliminated by WPC
- I ask about the three German GG's that were killed. Scooter said RB killed them in the WPC city, and that they destroyed the army before letting WPC make the final kill and capture the city
- We talk a little more about WPC's poor wartime strategy in general, mixed in with talk about PB14
YossarianLives
Deity
Overview of RB lands:
The north:
The south:
The north:
The south:
YossarianLives
Deity
Looks like Poly has closed borders with RB:
This combined with them switching into Nationalism recently and finishing Rifling this turn. Think RB's worried much?
Well wait till we turn down their NAP extension
This combined with them switching into Nationalism recently and finishing Rifling this turn. Think RB's worried much?
Well wait till we turn down their NAP extension
We should suggest WPC close borders with RB in retaliation for their treachery. If RB truly cheated them then this is the least they can do.
Then we can say to RB... "Well it seems like everyone is closing Borders with you. So we think that strategically, it makes the most sense to us to see how this plays out in terms of getting a better offer from you for a NAP. So in light of that we are not ready to agree to a NAP extension at this time."
Then we can say to RB... "Well it seems like everyone is closing Borders with you. So we think that strategically, it makes the most sense to us to see how this plays out in terms of getting a better offer from you for a NAP. So in light of that we are not ready to agree to a NAP extension at this time."
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
Yes, us asking WPC to close borders can be good, but I doubt they will. WPC are afraid of RB and when I suggested they look for their rights, they said: "Power ratio is not in our favor at all for us to make demands"
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
BTW, which turn we promised to give the Marble? Should we offer it in-game?
Turn 165 is when we must offer it in game. If we are not using it, I would say we should offer it right away so we don't forget.
YossarianLives
Deity
Our last agreement was to start the gift on T165, so next turn.
Scooter was looking for me on chat yesterday, and we touched base today:
tldr:
Scooter was looking for me on chat yesterday, and we touched base today:
YossarianLives:
Hey, sorry I missed you yesterday. I'm around now if you are
Scooter:
Hey, I'm here now. you around?
YossarianLives:
Yeah, how's it going?
Scooter:
Pretty good. Sorry to bug you about this again, but I wanted to check in on the status of the NAP proposal. We're just trying to plan, and whether or not a deal is in place affects things as you can imagine.
YossarianLives:
Yeah, definitely
So we voted on it, and the decision was split, but I we can't accept the NAP you proposed
The end of your war, with you guys getting all that land and WPC getting nothing, made it harder to get the NAP approved
A lot of the team sees a NAP as benefiting you a lot more, since you have more and better land to develop in peace. And we don't think you'd DOW us so we don't really need it to keep us safe
Scooter:
Do you have any sort of counter-proposal or any modifications on the proposal that you would suggest?
YossarianLives:
I don't think anything that you guys would accept
I'm sure I could sell a NAP to the team if it came with extra land / cities for us, but you already said you're not interested in that
And I guess the rules don't really allow it (unless we do a coordinated war or something like that)
Scooter:
yeah the rules don't allow it. what about some sort of aid which helps you capture more?
I don't know if you have your sights set on any new land, but that's just an idea that popped into my head recently since we can draft muskets and soon rifles en masse
Like, I know you and Apolyton could probably carve up UCiv pretty easily, or you guys + CivPlayers would probably be enough to take down CivFr.
and targets that don't do a lot of diplo tend to be the best targets. hah
YossarianLives:
Hmm, not sure that would work, especially if you have restrictions on who we could use them against
Scooter:
well, of course the restriction would be you can't use them against us
YossarianLives:
lol, well I'm sure they would come along with a NAP
Scooter:
Is the WPC clause we stuck into the last offer a big issue?
YossarianLives:
It wasn't the deal-breaker, but sure it only left us with tougher options to consider
Scooter:
because if it made you willing to make the deal, we would be willing to remove that part
YossarianLives:
Well like I said, it was a split decision, so maybe that change would sway enough votes, but I kind of doubt it
Let me ask them team what exactly we would need to accept the deal
Scooter:
Ok, yeah that's fine. The issue is I'm having trouble discerning what is the primary sticking point from your team's perspective. Like - some things we'd be willing to flex on. Like I wrote in the email - it wasn't meant to be take it or leave it offer
YossarianLives:
Like I said before I think it would want that peninsula between us, but I don't think we could make that work with you guys
Scooter:
so I'm having trouble gauging if we're actually close or not
YossarianLives:
I think we're still kinda far apart...
Scooter:
yeah, I mean we have our Globe Theater there and it's key to a defensible border, so it's a valuable section for us
YossarianLives:
Scooter:
yeah I understand. well look, city gifting is not allowed, but if you have a counter-offer of some sort, please let me know. We balked at the idea of resource gifts in our offer... We'd be willing to consider that if there was a longer NAP commitment involved
if that makes sense
that offer we sent was more of a short-term compromise from our perspective
YossarianLives:
I'll see if there is anything we can come up with. I definitely get where you guys are coming from
We also see you guys losing OB with other teams, so again we feel like a NAP from us would be really valuable to you guys
Scooter:
Hah, we're actually wanting to start closing down borders with some of our neighbors so it's certainly not hurting us. we're kind of guessing you guys will bounce into mercantilism soon
YossarianLives:
It's nice having Spiritual so we don't have to time our swaps with GA's, can just change the moment we need it
Scooter:
yeah definitely. SPI starts to be really awesome at this phase of the game
YossarianLives:
Alright, well I've got to get going
Scooter:
yeah me too
YossarianLives:
I'll try to get back to you soon with a counter
Scooter:
ok thanks, sounds good
tldr:
- Scooter asked if we're going to extend the NAP
- I said no
- He asked for a counter-offer
- I said we want our peninsula back
- He said no
- When I mentioned the other teams closing borders with them, he claimed that's just what they wanted all along
- There was another loosely veiled threat somewhere in there about how they are about to start drafting Rifles en masse (if only we were on our way to Grens )
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
LOL, Yossa, very good job, man! I really laughed reading.
And yes, he is trying to scare us off. Drafting rifles... After all those drafted muskets... in the unforeseeable future.
Lately I am trying to telegraph to our allies that we need to really go berserk in the next 15 turns to have that chance to crush RB without thinking much or leaving power for the after-RB. I think this is what we must really do.
And yes, he is trying to scare us off. Drafting rifles... After all those drafted muskets... in the unforeseeable future.
Lately I am trying to telegraph to our allies that we need to really go berserk in the next 15 turns to have that chance to crush RB without thinking much or leaving power for the after-RB. I think this is what we must really do.
So you are finally coming along to thinking that this is our last-best chance to do something about RB? Trumpets sounding, with Banners crackling in the wind and all?
Trumpets sounding, with Banners crackling in the wind and all?YossarianLives
Deity
Just a short chat with Scooter today:
I really wasn't sure how to respond to his question out of the blue, hope I didn't blow anything for us.
Scooter: Steel for Cannons next eh?
YossarianLives: lol, how do you know it wasn't for the ironclads?
Scooter: or scientific method I suppose.
YossarianLives Oh wow, just read about 168 hour turns coming up...
Scooter: Sorry, had to step away. What's that about long turns?
YossarianLives: np, mzprox posted asking to extend the timer in August since people are taking vacations
Scooter: For ISDG?
YossarianLives: Yeah
I really wasn't sure how to respond to his question out of the blue, hope I didn't blow anything for us.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
So you are finally coming along to thinking that this is our last-best chance to do something about RB?
I doubt there will be a lot of trumpets and banners. Not in the triumphant sense at least. More like invisible drums rumble all around, a lot of dust, mud and gunpowder smoke, distant muted volleys and the close screams of the dying men.
You did OK. They know we went chemistry, they know what this means. Grens or cannons. They evaluate our situation and see that for us best is canons. They will see them anyway in 6 turns. Even better. Let them know we aim for canons, they will look at this as defensive move, not aggressive one. They still dont know our 30 cannons will be accompanied by 50 muskets
YossarianLives
Deity
You know, during the chat I was going on the assumption that they could see our research and knew we had research set to steel. But since we have that espy agreement, they can't have research visibility on us. But yeah, steel was the only logical conclusion.
Since it is now T165, I went ahead and offered them the Marble we owe them.
And maybe this is old news, but nobody has any deals at all with RB anymore accept for us and WPC
Since it is now T165, I went ahead and offered them the Marble we owe them.
And maybe this is old news, but nobody has any deals at all with RB anymore accept for us and WPC
YossarianLives
Deity
Another chat with Scooter. These guys are getting desparate, it seems:
tldr:
Scooter:
if you happen to be around anytime soon, let me know. wanted to briefly chat with you about something 7:10 AM
YossarianLives:
Hey Scooter, what's up? 7:24 AM
Scooter:
Hey. so I've been kind of brainstorming a bit with a teammate or two 7:25 AM
I know when we talked you basically said you weren't real interested in a NAP unless it involved you getting a city 7:25 AM
I don't think that's realistic, but I was trying to think of something comparable 7:25 AM
YossarianLives:
Oh? 7:26 AM
Scooter:
So we thought about it. If you were to give us a lengthy NAP (like 50 turns), we would offer our next great person in return. 7:26 AM
that's the absolute best we can do, but I think that's a significant economic boost, which seems to be what you are looking for 7:26 AM
YossarianLives:
Yeah, that's actually more than I thought you would be willing to offer 7:31 AM
Do you know what your next gp should be, and when your expecting it? 7:31 AM
Scooter:
Dang I should have had that number handy when I message'd you, my bad. It's fairly soon, let me check 7:31 AM
YossarianLives:
Oh no problem 7:32 AM
Did you guys get the marble offer last turn? 7:34 AM
Scooter:
Yep, we got it, thanks 7:34 AM
I think roughly 10T on the great person. give or take about 4 turns 7:35 AM
in the 8-13 turn range I'm pretty sure 7:35 AM
YossarianLives:
Cool, sorry we had to keep changing the date. Thanks for being understanding about that 7:35 AM
Scooter:
13 is the max anyway, I'm not sure if it will be sped up is what I mean 7:35 AM
Yeah no problem 7:35 AM
YossarianLives:
Ok, that doesn't sound too bad for the GP 7:35 AM
Any idea what you're expecting it to be? 7:36 AM
Scooter:
The city is a bit of a blender I think. IIRC, merchant is most likely 7:36 AM
YossarianLives:
Looks like you're incorporating the German lands into your empire nicely right now 7:36 AM
Scooter:
doing our best anyway. quite a balancing act 7:37 AM
anyway, what's your general thought on that? does that even seem like a worthwhile offer to you? 7:37 AM
YossarianLives:
How was the rest of their dotmap? I know you were saying you were pretty unhappy with parts of it near your border 7:38 AM
Well, it's going to get us closer than just releasing the WPC restriction would have 7:38 AM
Like I said last time we chatted, I didn't feel like we were too close as far as what we were hoping from you guys and what you'd be willing to offer, but this is more than I would have expected 7:38 AM
Scooter:
good enough. Some of their cities were settled in odd spots, but it's not bad 7:38 AM
YossarianLives:
It will sway some votes on our team 7:39 AM
There are others though that are really against a NAP with you period, just because you're so far ahead 7:39 AM
Scooter:
I understand. My response to that is pretty simple: Our economy is pretty lousy until we integrate stuff, which will take quite a long time. Meanwhile, you have cannons and two fairly soft northern neighbors. 7:40 AM
it adds up pretty nicely for you guys in my opinion 7:40 AM
"you have cannons" or you will shortly
hm saving gold, mass wealth builds, etc.
YossarianLives:
Yeah, exactly. That's the other argument being presented 7:45 AM
I'm working on that post you and Nicolae recommended by the way, just got really busy yesterday 7:46 AM
Scooter:
Oh yeah no problem. I don't think there's too much rush on that post given the slow start up 7:47 AM
Anyway, I dont' like rushing teams, but I will say we need a slightly quicker turn-around on an answer than last time. (not complaining, that was fine, just requesting) 7:48 AM
Only because I think the interest in offering the deal would dry up if it wasn't accepted pretty quickly. 7:48 AM
YossarianLives:
Alright, I'll need the weekend at least 7:50 AM
Some key members are out of town this week 7:51 AM
But I'll try to get back to you early next week. Will that work? 7:51 AM
Scooter:
Okay that's fine, I understand. Weekend and all 7:51 AM
Okay that's fine. I'll check with you on Monday 7:51 AM
YossarianLives:
Sounds good 7:51 AM
Scooter:
we were actually considering asking for a 1 day pause. We're switching turn players and we're similarly missing a few people this weekend too 7:52 AM
but I don't know if that would be appropriate or not 7:52 AM
don't want to slow things down unnecessarily either. I don't know 7:52 AM
YossarianLives:
Uh oh. Yeah, I think the timer expires tonight, right? 7:57 AM
CivFr hasn't really been ending turn lately, so we've had to wait out the whole timer before we even have a chance to log in recently 7:58 AM
Scooter:
yeah we should be fine, played most of it last night. it's always tricky to transition turn players on big maps
YossarianLives:
Well I'm sure Caledorn will respond to a request quickly if you need the pause 8:13 AM
Scooter:
should be fine. I'd rather not us hold the game up 8:14 AM
YossarianLives:
gtg, have a good weekend 8:23 AM
Scooter:
thanks, you too
tldr:
- Scooter offered us their next Great Person in return for a 50-turn NAP
- The GP will come in 13 turns (as quickly as 8 turns if they speed it up) and is a mixed pool with highest chances being a Great Merchant
- They need an answer right away or they will withdraw the offer (by Monday)
- They're trying again to direct us against UCiv
- Seems like they might be having a little bit of internal struggles playing the turns?
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