Foreign Policy: Spanish Apolyton

[Magno_uy]

yea, thats true... early wars are hard to paid... but if you manage and get just the capital and one city at most .. you will have the double of land and resuroces that the rest
that will leave you plenty of space to grow without need of any other war for a loooong time...

the key of success in this is to not have too many cities your self!... in a smaller map, our two capitals would not be so far each other. And defending your self even if you get a little slow in techs it easy.
When space is over and civ start fighting each other for the remaingin space... we would be in confortable position to get in back in the tech tree...

It s was a big bet we made... you know very well what happends

 

[Sommerswerd]

I am BIG a fan of early Wars myself ... as 2metra knows

He is always trying to talk me out of attacking neighbors with Axes and Chariots in ancient times.

 

[Maga_R]

I am BIG a fan of early Wars myself ... as 2metra knows

He is always trying to talk me out of attacking neighbors with Axes and Chariots in ancient times.

I have attacked 2metra with vultures (axes) and even cats once And I vowed to never try to again . I survived - Bistrita has won that war for me, leaving me a #1 civ in great shape , thanks! - but my economy was ruined and my expansion delayed . And due to this I lost my next, much more important war, that I could have won otherwise, I think.

Magno, I think you are still strategically are thinking about a different kind of game - one can survive an early war, sure, but in a long game like this it will likely cause you to fall behind in tech and be an easy target later on ...

 

[Bowsling]

I came this close to attacking 2metra himself in the warmup game with chariot when I thought I had taken his only copper. Turns out he had spears though.

 

[vranasm]

yea, thats true... early wars are hard to paid... but if you manage and get just the capital and one city at most .. you will have the double of land and resuroces that the rest
that will leave you plenty of space to grow without need of any other war for a loooong time...

the key of success in this is to not have too many cities your self!... in a smaller map, our two capitals would not be so far each other. And defending your self even if you get a little slow in techs it easy.
When space is over and civ start fighting each other for the remaingin space... we would be in confortable position to get in back in the tech tree...

It s was a big bet we made... you know very well what happends

I think your biggest mistake was that you didn't analyze properly the map type, speed and especially the toroidal setting.

this makes early wars very prohibitive

 

[Magno_uy]

yeap thats true... we lost that fact.

 

[Arkipeller]

yeap thats true... we lost that fact.

Are you joining us, Magno? (Can I add that in the storytelling? )

 

[Magno_uy]

yes. of course. Im a full member of this selected club

Thanks again for the invitation

 

[Maga_R]

yes. of course. Im a full member of this selected club

Thanks again for the invitation

We are happy to have you, Magno

 

[Magno_uy]

With your permission, I will like to shared with my old gang this two pics of your forum

one shows a general panel of the amount of post in each thread, and the second an old turn summary. The info in this old post are obsolete and do not shows nothing that could be relevant for nowadays.

If any do not feel confortable with this , just say it

 

[YossarianLives]

Magno, I have no problem with you posting those screenshots.

It would be awesome if you can get some of your compañeros to join us, too.

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, sure, me neither have problems with those screenshots.

And yes, you can get more guys from your team in here, they are welcomed.

 

[Magno_uy]

2Metra:
so we meet on one side of the fence this time

Magno:
thanks to givingme a home after you take ours...
looks like you move the fence right over aun side...
actually I staid in the same place! 😀
stay
2Metra:
hehe, yes, true

Magno:
hwo can I help

2Metra:
I have to out to some restaurant in few minutes, so we can speak later, but first I want to ask you if you had any agreements with French?
Magno:
no, any
that last msg trying to make you tought that Franchutes where caming in our help where just lies

2Metra:hmm
but we knew you had 1 city empty in fron of French?
Magno:
trying to get you into war against them.... 😀
2Metra:
or it just happened like this at this moment?
heheh
you did good then
Magno:
not really know the details of the game as I actually do not enter the game for a while...
but if it was some indefense city there side it was just a potencial sacrifice a city we could not defend anyway...
2Metra:
I see
Magno:
if France was planning to attack us before they see we where lost agian you.. i dont know.. but it would not sorpice me if it was that way...
we donot had a wgood realtion since the Chinook incident...
2Metra:
there was incident?
Magno:
where we actually where just 1 turn to attack them instead of you...
better if i post it later
it will take a time for me makemyslef explianded in that pount
point
2Metra:
yes, team will like this story
Magno:
just for a resume, a barbarian spearman save us....
but post the hole story later
have to wokr right now

2Metra:
ok, thanks for now, I have really to get prepared and to go
Magno:
you know.. that activity that actually paid your bills

2Metra:yeah, I have to do it too
ok, bye for now
Magno:
adios




Now, the hole Chinook incident story... Or as far as I can remember it

In a far, far, far away civilization, where people and sheep live in harmony... We where just happy planning our future attack to the first one we meet.. thats was your team.
Not longer after that, we meet the Mayas/Frenchs team, they were far away even more than you, so , original plan do not change. We start a really friendly relation with Franchutes. When time goes and our civilization start to grow we start a border arrangement talks, basically , where are you planning to build cities , and so far. We said them that our eastern/northern limit will be the Chinook Barbarian city.
They do not know that city yet and we gladly show them the way till it.
Years later.... actually just a few turns of the D day ( thats when we planned to attack you)
we send a small army to take finally the Chinook city to close our expansion on that side so we can concentrate in expanding throw yours lands in the opposite direction. And also get some extra experience point against barbarians.
All goes fine, we move some catapults, start the bombarding task with now hurry, and do the first attack. As we do not send to much units as they should be in the opposite side of the map where they would really will be necessary in just a few more turns (your border) we attack in two turns, so, after we do the first turn attack and leave just a couple of damage barbarian weak units defending Chinook. Next turn we take the city, move the units back and attack you. All goes fine...
But when we enter the next turn!!! Frenchs had taken the Chinook city!! with just a couple of units from the opposite side of Chinook where we do not seen from our army in our side of Chinook!

Well... thinks get a little bit crazy those days... some of us just what to go for the Mayas/French and sign a NAP with you..

I send a really "friendly" message to French demanding explanations and get a " we never accept Chinook as yours" message... And actually that was true. They never accept, but in 100 turns they never said nothing and there where severals messages from us announcing that this city would be our eastern city.


We make a votation.. leave the city and attack you as planned.. or move the army to the east and attack Chinook and all what we find easten that... the result was clear. Attack French team and offer you a NAP

So I send a clear diplo msg to French. All unit in the Chinook city will be consider barbarians and will be destroyed next turn. No answer at all.

Next turn French move theirs units out of Chinook leaving it empty. But we do not take the city waiting for the catapults that for then they where going back and they were just one turn away and we where not sure what we will find in the other side of Chinook.
Next turn a crazy barbarian spearman that came from nowhere appear and take the empty city! And we take the city from the barbarians avoiding then the DOW against French team!...

So, DOW do not was necessary and as French tema back off... the original plan was retaken and the rest of the story you know it very well.

 

[2metraninja]

LOL! That is weird story indeed. Thanks for sharing it and bravo for the nice way of presenting it.

Sad part is those guys sound like real bastards to me and I lose the tiniest hope I had we can come to normal agreement with them.

 

[YossarianLives]

Yeah, that's an amazing story. I can't believe how close things came to playing out completely differently! Thanks for sharing it.

I had the exact opposite reaction from 2metra, this gave me hope we can negotiate with CivFr. To me it seemed that the Frenchies were eager to get peace when threatened by the Spaniards. They didn't do this diplomatically, but they did back off in game. I think their current in-game actions also indicate they're not trying to go into war mode.They're not whipping, they're working cottages, they're teching Edu, these just all seem geared towards the long-term game to me. I am confident they'll give us the peace we need.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yes, hearing this story makes me more confident that if we can probably just ignore them and continue with the RB invasion plan. Or if we MUST have a NAP with them, we can invade them and they will give it to us in exchange for getting back their city. They just want to develop peacefully without doing any fighting.

 

[Maga_R]

The story is very interesting and CivFr bahavior rather strange - it seems that their intention was to give Chinook back to SpAp, but for some reason they did not do it in a normal way, risking confusion and an unwanted war

I would be careful, though, in assuming that they would go to great lengths to avoid actual war with us - their letter indicated otherwise an din not seem a bluff, imho. And Moineau certainly knows how to fight and is no afraid to do so, and s/he is around.

 

[2metraninja]

New chat with MZ just after I saw he stole 3 techs in a single turn:

2metraninja: congrats
MZprox: thx
i hd to steal engineering first so my new missionary could reach my original target city and it went perfectly

2metraninja: hahah
I love when things come together like this
so, also congrats on your second place in the score
we will have to start think how to contain you
MZprox: yeah, it has risk like that.. we may have not been considered as a serious contender till now
we will fall back n score soon btw.. i can hardly wait to get back into slaving and drafting
2metraninja: I spoke with ot4e too
today
he is eager for the fun to begin
he said he will whip like 3k hammers soldiers
MZprox: ok, we will see
whipping is far less efficient than drafting
2metraninja: in this age yes
2metraninja: btw, only those who dont knew you considered you not a serious contender I always knew you are to be considered in the big scheme
MZprox: rb is tricky as always
MZprox: I told them we don1t want nap
and they said they understand we don't want nap because we want the option to protect others in case they are aggressors
2metraninja: and?
hehe
this is good enough reason for them to think
MZprox: so they asked what if we sign a kind of nap what cancles if they attack our "protected" ntions
2metraninja: lol, they are indeed good
to know who you would call protected nations
MZprox: if i refuse then it means that we plan aggression ourselves
2metraninja: and also to protect themselves from you attacking them
MZprox: anyway i said we will consider it, but I don't really mind if they know we are prepring war againt them
it will be too evidentanyway quite soon
2metraninja: yes, let them think whatever they want
we will get cannons till t170
and whip whole bunch of them
MZprox: cannons?
2metraninja: yes
the chem route
MZprox: that's nice
2metraninja: then Grenadiers. we calculated we have no research power to tech to rifles
also, we think RB will go for rifles too
so, we were thinking that if we 3 are indeed determined, we can make RB bleed lavish
Изпратено в 22:23, понеделник
MZprox: i don1t know how far I should go into in war efforts
Изпратено в 22:24, понеделник
2metraninja: but, if we give RB 30-40 turns, they will explode
then even if we want, we wont be able to bring them down
they will have twice your land
how you think to deal with that?
MZprox: I know this and preppping to war, but not decided how much "damge" should i do on my cities
i mea between big and extreme big
2metraninja: there are 2 choices
either we simply defend from RB
or we go berserk on them and decimate them
MZprox: i will draft at least two units from each of my cities (which are big enough)
2metraninja: do you agree with this>?
Изпратено в 22:27, понеделник
MZprox: what does berserk mean?
Изпратено в 22:28, понеделник
2metraninja: this means to fight for the moment, keeping no powers for later
Изпратено в 22:33, понеделник
MZprox: you know i could revolt into nationalism now and start drafting+slaving catapults. i can get rifling and drama then put my sliders into money and happyness when needed. I could continue with drafting with no end and use the money to unpgrade any older units i have.. now that's berserk and surely i will not do this
Изпратено в 22:37, понеделник
MZprox: instead I will go natonalism next turn, at the end of my goldenage but probably will not do drafts until i get to rifling. then i draft 30-40 of them
meanwhile i1m building barracks and catapults
this is what i call moderate preparations
2metraninja: my question is if we are going to cripple RB or simply defend from them?
because it will not be a one-man show
this must be done as a gang
MZprox: I examine this question from the other end
2metraninja: and I would love to know where we stand and to aim for that
MZprox: we decide how much we sacrifice and then see what it is enough for
2metraninja: oh, dear, you fear you will be seen as the next big bad nation which needs to be ganged?
MZprox: I could say, yeah lets cripple Rb and then build a force of 10-15 units..
instead I say what can i do realisticly then we could decide what it is enough for
and no to your qustion
2metraninja: good.
MZprox: and my concern is not just about my nation but all 3 of ours
2metraninja: I like sober thinking guys
I myself tent to get emotional way too much
sometimes it is good, sometimes is fiasko
MZprox: i think we can agree that we should do the same level of preprations.. so it's not good that one of us only builds some units when there is nothing else to do while the others slaving their cities to pop 1 (and i know you already did moe daage to your cities than the rest of us)
and I think we should somehow have to agree on this lvel of preparation
I think we can agree that the first scenario i described (halting research and put every pop into military unit) is too extreme
Изпратено в 22:45, понеделник
2metraninja: ok, yes, it is way too extreme
ok, I think I am trying to plan things more than it is possible.
I guess with closing the date of end NAPs with RB, we will have better feeling what is happening and what can be done
I just had a wild idea
Изпратено в 22:48, понеделник
2metraninja: if RB are asking you for NAP and are eager to sign even a semi-NAP with you and every nation you pick as your protectorate, then they are most probably trying to just secure themselves. they dont plan to attack anyone
do you think this is possible scenario?
MZprox: absolutely, they need time to get rifling themselves and let their new cites to grow to use the to drafting too
2metraninja: yes, and it will take time to get their economics in shape
my analizators told me it will be like 30-40 turns after they finish conquest
there RB will simply explode
and will no longer fear attacks
MZprox: by that time all my riflemen could turn into infantry
Изпратено в 22:51, понеделник
2metraninja: but RB will have infantry too, and way more in numbers because of their double territory and city count I think
Изпратено в 22:53, понеделник
MZprox: yes, i think we would have agood window to attack then, but i also think we should not pass this "window" either. however you made me thinking.. maybe rb will too go for grenadiers
it would be logical from them
2metraninja: if we see/decide we wont go to cripple RB for good shortly after t170/175, then we might do something else.
MZprox: then my riflemen army is not good to enter their territory at all
Изпратено в 22:59, понеделник
MZprox: i think we should prepare and see. if we declare war they would still need to split heir armies in 3
2metraninja: yes
Изпратено в 23:01, понеделник
2metraninja: just a random idea to make you think about it, not something to be hurry or something, but you can give it a thought or two. what if we decide we cant/dont want to attack RB in the next 20 turns even after we raise our armies, but still see it is not enough.
I can give you alternative option. we sign short NAPs with RB and we go for CivFR. you and us, or even ot4e if it is time for that - we attack French and crush them
they dont stand a chance against determined enemies with ready armies
2 vs 1
we divide French territory and we are no longer afraid that RB will be twice bigger than us.
we wait for better times to deal with RB
infantries, Tanks
Modern armors, whatever
MZprox: well, something to consider
2metraninja: sounds good alternative, eh?
will catapult us in the new era with confidence
Изпратено в 23:05, понеделник
MZprox: against Rb my plans were that even if I ca't enter their territory without risking losing my whole army, I'd still radi them from the coast
2metraninja: so you want to see real action
MZprox: i still prefer to attack RB
first
2metraninja: makes sense
but, it is not a good plan that have no plan N
plan B
MZprox: but it is also possible that we will find french an easier target
2metraninja: of course they will be
Изпратено в 23:09, понеделник
2metraninja: French have 3 times less army than RB
and once they see they cant go trough us and we are not militarizing the border, they will simply stop stockpiling units of their own
MZprox: ok, but it's more tha 20 turns til our nap expires in t180
2metraninja: we are not ready to attack French too
maybe, things will get together just nice
we attack and harrass RB, burn city or two, or three, force them in to slaving/drafting spree
and the moment they think they are under total siege, we propose them NAP
do you think they will hesitate much before taking it?
then your NAP is expired with French
and we hit them like hammer

for RB it is considered very common thing to sign short NAPs
like 10 turns, or 15
or even 3 turns lol
MZprox: i don1t know, they would know what we are up to. btw it woul be really stupid of the french if they didn1t realize they need to work with RB
2metraninja: how will French work with RB?
they have NAP with you
and Ot4e
and they have their armies pinned at our border
MZprox: yes, but in the future they too would need to coordinate their naps. they must realize it or get destroyed
Изпратено в 23:18, понеделник
2metraninja: we will see
I am not pushing on this
just giving you food for thoughts
French might consider themselves part of the anti-RB alliance and feel safe
they promised ot4e to send help
real help from real units
Изпратено в 23:21, понеделник
MZprox: well, we will see. right now rb is just collecting money and have thier points go into printing press. they might get it anyway since it's a good economic tech, but if I see them going for grenadiers then i will have to reconsider my plans

 

[YossarianLives]

Umm, wrong thread?

Very interesting chat you had there. Good to hear that Poly seems to be more and more on board with the plan to take out RB. Especially as they pull ahead in score and can really see themselves winning this thing, with only RB standing in their way.

Scooter just offered us the same "conditional" NAP where we have an option to pull out if they attack any of our allies. I see this as a good sign. If they're fishing around for NAPs with everyone, it's because they really want to take the time to develop this new land and they don't think they can defend all their borders against the three of us

 

[bistrita]

For sure they want and becasue we invest in military we have to go for taking RB down.I realy hope our allies will not disapoint as with this mo we go all in.