Frozen: Bugs, Balances, and Feedback
- Thread starter TC01
- Start date
TC01
Deity
I've released v0.8 for Fall Further. It should fix all the issues listed in the first post.
As a result, I've now cleaned up the first post a little and removed everything I've fixed.
As a result, I've now cleaned up the first post a little and removed everything I've fixed.
Darksaber1
Secret Emperor
Ok, how about replace Taranis Diplo-music with the theme music for Age of Ice?
Well, I think there's an issue with the Frozen's actual spawn here, balance wise- The fact that once they lay down a city, they turn a 5x5 tile square around that city into Ice. I could understand if it was within Cultural Borders or BFC, but this extends beyond cultural borders. Especially when they were summoned as well- Turn 480~ in Marathon mode, which had the additional benefit of screwing up my Memory Allocation and CTDing, but more importantly is that I have no units that can counter them at all, they've got Champions and Ice Golems while I have Bronze Axemen and Horsemen. While I dont mind that they spawned directly next to my opponent and obliterated a large portion of the Jungle Belt, I do think that when they spawn, they spawn a bit too strong. Even Hyborem only gets the first ring of tiles around Dis as Hell Terrain when he spawns, not a whopping 25-50 Tiles worth of Hell Terrain, where as Taranis can get up to 50 tiles as ice right from the get go.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Is that ice just from them spawning, or any city being founded?
If the first, I'd tone it down a bit but it's not too gamebreaking in my opinion.
If the second... That REALLY needs toning down.
If the first, I'd tone it down a bit but it's not too gamebreaking in my opinion.
If the second... That REALLY needs toning down.
As far as I'm aware of its every city they found- The two cities they currently have 5x5 sets of ice centered on them. I'd post a screenshot but I'm currently posting from my Laptop as I play using my Desktop. I'll post a screenshot later when I either finish the game or my memory fails again.
TC01
Deity
The way it (should) work is that whenever a Frozen city is founded, the Temple of the Hand is built and the effect triggered when it is built is triggered. This turns everything in a 2-plot radius around the city (which is, correct, 5x5) into snow.
Originally, I had it that the Temple of the Hand was not a starting building. But then people suggested that I give it to them as a starting building, and did. This is exactly the same as what happens when you build the Temple of the Hand as the Illians. If you think it needs toning down, then what will happen is you will not get the Temple as a starting building. I'm not messing with the effect.
And, their starting units are exactly the same as the Infernal starting units, except that Ice Golems are better then regular Longbowmen. I can change that too, of course, if you feel it's too powerful.
The diplo music change is a good idea.
Originally, I had it that the Temple of the Hand was not a starting building. But then people suggested that I give it to them as a starting building, and did. This is exactly the same as what happens when you build the Temple of the Hand as the Illians. If you think it needs toning down, then what will happen is you will not get the Temple as a starting building. I'm not messing with the effect.
And, their starting units are exactly the same as the Infernal starting units, except that Ice Golems are better then regular Longbowmen. I can change that too, of course, if you feel it's too powerful.
The diplo music change is a good idea.
I think the idea is great in concept but its the effect that I'm worried about- The fact that it extends beyond cultural borders into what would normally be a level three culture zone is bad. I would be fine if it was just the BFC- not a giant square.
I do agree that the temple needs to be autobuilt, but I still think that the effect is unbalanced. At least the Illians have to build the temple for the ice to appear, which takes some time for either some form of culture to occur in the city. I'll admit that I havent played with the Illians in game for quite some time, so this is the first time I've seen it in action. With FF+ Terraforming, it isnt a big deal now, but the fact remains that it is simply too much of a suden change that can really destroy economies of nearby cities, especially if they land on a crowded map.
Ice Golems are, IIRC, 6/8+2 Cold, but Liberation comes BEFORE Infernal Pact does, meaning that the Frozen already have a leg up on the Infernals in terms of starting strength and spawn speed. I'd personally like to see the spawned civs have a scaling power depending on some factor, whether its the highest tech known to the world or by the techs known to the summoner. Since that isnt possible, there needs to be some limitation on these guys. Combined with the economy ruining effect of the Insta-Temple, Anyone these guys land near will be utterly screwed, and unlike with Hell Terrain there's no way to stop it save terraforming, which requires two different Mana Types (Sun and Water) as opposed to one for Hell Terrain (Life). Toning down the number of units might be applicable, but it would require more play testing.
Swinkscalibur
Prince
I believe any non-good civ who has the elementalism tech can create the ritual "Liberation" which causes the Frozen to enter the world.
TC01
Deity
I could weaken Ice Golems... I could reduce number of starting units... or I could push Liberation to a farther-back tech in the tech tree. Which is best?
Also, I can make it so that the Frozen's version of the Temple (the two use different functions, so I can change one and not the other), only fills a one-plot radius area at first, and then when the city's culture expands, the ice expands to a two-plot radius (or, just the BFC, and not the whole two-plot radius).
Also, I can make it so that the Frozen's version of the Temple (the two use different functions, so I can change one and not the other), only fills a one-plot radius area at first, and then when the city's culture expands, the ice expands to a two-plot radius (or, just the BFC, and not the whole two-plot radius).
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Whoops, I thought he meant a 5-tier city.
5x5 is just the BFC, + 4 tiles in the corners. Not an issue.Of course, would be better to rewrite that code to just look at the BFC... Think there's a block that already does that for Odalrick's Vitalize.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Making a gameoption we can use to restrict summoning the Frozen separately from the Mercs/Infernals. Any idea on what the name should be? For now all I'm using is 'Blocked Liberation"
TC01
Deity
Well, "No Frozen" is a pretty descriptive name, and gets across the point- no Frozen, just like game options like "No Acheron", or "No Duin". A more flavorful name might be confusing, and I have no good ideas, but something like "Taranis Unfreeable" might work.
Schwarzbart
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 528
No Frozen sounds like the best way to name this option.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
No Liberation is what it's named as of now... Think it sounds better than No Frozen, and it has help text telling you exactly what it does. 
black_imperator
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
- Messages
- 2,095
Have a little question . is it normal that 150 turns after Liberation , the frozen have a town with 450 pop and another one with 190? because it literally explodes the armageddon counter when you are to raze one of those ...
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
That's a result of one of the bugs fixed in the new patch (Which will be part of the FFPlus patch, can't just install the FF patch sadly).
Basically, their own units are giving them Frozen Souls... Which are being used for population.
Basically, their own units are giving them Frozen Souls... Which are being used for population.
Not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but I've found that my units (even those in cities) seem to be getting "lost" in blizzards. In otherwords, one turn they are in a city and the next turn they are all magically out of the city. This has happened both as the Frozen, and fighting against them. A bit annoying as them, quite annoying fighting them (I basically had to capture each city twice because of it)
Also, should non-living units be immune to Wintered (or whatever it's going to be called)? It seems odd that my Goliath unit should be weaker because of a little cold...
Also, should non-living units be immune to Wintered (or whatever it's going to be called)? It seems odd that my Goliath unit should be weaker because of a little cold...
