Synobun
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That's okay. I made that post in Random Rants and then a moderator decided to make it the OP of an RD thread.
[RD] Games as a Service
- Thread starter Synobun
- Start date
That's okay. I made that post in Random Rants and then a moderator decided to make it the OP of an RD thread.
aimeeandbeatles
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I think I made the thread as an RD, but then the mods merged the posts from rants and Syn ended up the OP.
Timsup2nothin
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Because stupid people buy stuff from Steam and there's a lot of stupid people? Is that the answer you are looking for?
Senethro
Overlord
So you can't satisfactorily explain their behaviour but you're absolutely certain that they're the stupid ones?
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
That's okay. I made that post in Random Rants and then a moderator decided to make it the OP of an RD thread.
that mod was a genius, praise be upon him
I can explain why more people bought Civ 5 compared to 6.
Because it was a better game. With mod support.
I still prefer six but we do need that .dll
Timsup2nothin
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I think that explains it pretty well.
Why are there more sales through a service that stupid people allowed to nearly monopolize a market than there are through other services, huh, huh? Riddle me that Batman!
LOL...I can only imagine why you find this mysterious.
Senethro
Overlord
No no, you misread me. There were more sales through Steam of Civ 5 than of the entire series previously through everything. Everything. All time. Total.
I'm not sure the increase can be adequately explained through an increase in the total number of gamers. Nor are there suddenly more stupid people than before.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I agree that steam has turned a lot of pirates into paying customers.
Many pirates switched over because they're lazy about some things in life. That used to be me. I can't be bothered to look for downloads, figure out if they're legit, figure out how to install the game, then go through the process all over again when things change or when I get a new PC
People forget that in the 80s and 90s, those people who copied computer software came from a culture of audio tapes being copied and passed around. Teenagers and young adults would share music they liked and spread it, in some ways in a viral fashion.
Those very same people would download games from a BBS without paying for the software, they would download a crack, and play for free. It was a cultural thing. Back in the 80s people traded audio tapes full of oldschool Atari games which were copied over from tape to tape using a regular tape deck.
It's all the exact same thing. Except eventually downloading cracks and figuring out how to install the software became annoying. You would get viruses, there were no BBS' to call to download the "verified" versions released by cracking and other groups.. you had to search for that stuff on limewire and elsewhere, and people would get viruses.. or the steps to install the game wouldn't work. Or this.. or that. And when something changes or you get a new gaming PC, you might have to go through the same process all over again.
The main thing I like about steam is that you can get cheap games. I'l admit that. The second thing I like it for is the ease. I don't have to think, I can just click a stupid little button and boom, one of my 700 games is getting installed on a new laptop, just like that. A game I got for $2 5 years ago. And I can play it almost right away. And I have friends who I can play with right in the service.
That converted a lot of lazy pirates who grew up in that culture of audio tapes and games being copied and shared. A lot of them are now adults with jobs who have an entertainment budget and no time to screw around with installers and crackers and god knows what else. Instead you can come from a long day at work, sit down in your couch or office chair, and start gaming, while being half brain dead. There's value in that, especially since it's a lot cheaper than consoles (once you already have a gaming pc)
The common complaint is that steam could just take all my games away. That's true. They could screw us all over and run. However, I suspect they will continue trying to get more customers and make even more money. And even if all my games disappeared.. I can see how much money I spent over the last whatever number of years. I know how much gaming I've done. I got really good value for my money. I used to buy $50+ games (and I still occasionally do) but now I can get them for $5. I've gotten many games for $1 and even less. You add up all that money I spent on all this stuff, you look at how much time has passed, and it's not really that much. It was money well spent, if it all goes poof then I will be upset but it won't be the end of the world.
So that's my perspective. I'm a lazy casual gamer who comes from communist Poland, a place without intellectual property rights. People like me who came from similar tape and game copying/sharing cultures (which didn't only exist in the east bloc mind you, I'm not saying that at all) who now have jobs and like to play video games occasionally.. There's value in something like steam for us... especially now that you can use steamLink to play on your TV with a steam controller (which I quite like) and it didn't cost much at all
Many pirates switched over because they're lazy about some things in life. That used to be me. I can't be bothered to look for downloads, figure out if they're legit, figure out how to install the game, then go through the process all over again when things change or when I get a new PC
People forget that in the 80s and 90s, those people who copied computer software came from a culture of audio tapes being copied and passed around. Teenagers and young adults would share music they liked and spread it, in some ways in a viral fashion.
Those very same people would download games from a BBS without paying for the software, they would download a crack, and play for free. It was a cultural thing. Back in the 80s people traded audio tapes full of oldschool Atari games which were copied over from tape to tape using a regular tape deck.
It's all the exact same thing. Except eventually downloading cracks and figuring out how to install the software became annoying. You would get viruses, there were no BBS' to call to download the "verified" versions released by cracking and other groups.. you had to search for that stuff on limewire and elsewhere, and people would get viruses.. or the steps to install the game wouldn't work. Or this.. or that. And when something changes or you get a new gaming PC, you might have to go through the same process all over again.
The main thing I like about steam is that you can get cheap games. I'l admit that. The second thing I like it for is the ease. I don't have to think, I can just click a stupid little button and boom, one of my 700 games is getting installed on a new laptop, just like that. A game I got for $2 5 years ago. And I can play it almost right away. And I have friends who I can play with right in the service.
That converted a lot of lazy pirates who grew up in that culture of audio tapes and games being copied and shared. A lot of them are now adults with jobs who have an entertainment budget and no time to screw around with installers and crackers and god knows what else. Instead you can come from a long day at work, sit down in your couch or office chair, and start gaming, while being half brain dead. There's value in that, especially since it's a lot cheaper than consoles (once you already have a gaming pc)
The common complaint is that steam could just take all my games away. That's true. They could screw us all over and run. However, I suspect they will continue trying to get more customers and make even more money. And even if all my games disappeared.. I can see how much money I spent over the last whatever number of years. I know how much gaming I've done. I got really good value for my money. I used to buy $50+ games (and I still occasionally do) but now I can get them for $5. I've gotten many games for $1 and even less. You add up all that money I spent on all this stuff, you look at how much time has passed, and it's not really that much. It was money well spent, if it all goes poof then I will be upset but it won't be the end of the world.
So that's my perspective. I'm a lazy casual gamer who comes from communist Poland, a place without intellectual property rights. People like me who came from similar tape and game copying/sharing cultures (which didn't only exist in the east bloc mind you, I'm not saying that at all) who now have jobs and like to play video games occasionally.. There's value in something like steam for us... especially now that you can use steamLink to play on your TV with a steam controller (which I quite like) and it didn't cost much at all
Timsup2nothin
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LOL...you aren't?
How many gamers do you honestly think there were when Civ was released? Civ II? I'll give you a hint ... every ... single ... person ... that I knew who had a machine to run Civ II on purchased a copy. Every single one.
There were three of us. And mine wouldn't actually run it.
Pirates outgrew pirating doesn't mean there aren't new pirates.
DRM has never had any meaningful impact on piracy because pirates just circumvent DRM. That hasn't changed, there's just a new generation of pirates. The defining feature of pirates was, is, and remains that they play games they cannot afford to buy, which means they weren't gonna buy them anyway.
Senethro
Overlord
This sounds like a testable claim.
Timsup2nothin
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Sure...if we want to get banned. I don't thanks. I will say if you are operating inside the fantasy that Valve pitches to their customers about Steam being the long awaited unbreakable DRM system you need to get out more though.
Senethro
Overlord
Surely someones looked at the numbers.
Steam isn't unbreakable and it doesn't need to be. Its just easier and more convenient.
Timsup2nothin
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That's not what Valve wants their customers to believe. Valve operates in a world of "unchecked piracy would drive you out of business and we are that check." The fact that it has always been a paranoid fantasy of their own creation and that the second part is demonstrably false doesn't seem to make any difference.
Oh, by the way...the whole "look at the numbers" bit has always been a part of Valve's BS fantasy feeding. There aren't any. Pirates, by their nature, do not lend themselves to statistical analysis.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Yeah, pirates still exist, but there's a lot more paying customers and less pirates than there used to be in terms of the %. You'll never get all the pirates, that's never been the goal by services like steam. The goal was to attract enough of the pirates along with other customers to form a sizeable enough customer base to survive and then make money.
Senethro
Overlord
Do you know who you sound like with you blabbering about how the foolish masses are being scammed by the elites and apparent immunity to data?
Berz.
Timsup2nothin
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LOL...the pirates grew up. There weren't any forty year old adult gamers just buying their games when there weren't any forty year old gamers. Of course there are more paying customers now. Steam didn't do that.
Valve's goal was to drive all other legal distribution out of business. They've never had anything to do with piracy, other than it being the bogey man that they used to whip their customers into supporting their efforts to corner the distribution market.
Timsup2nothin
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Funny I was just trying to figure out who would say "there must be someone who has looked at the non-existent numbers." Other than you, obviously. The question of DRM effectiveness, I am now guessing, has been argued since before you were old enough to read and the lack of real data is a well known issue...so your pretense about how there is some sort of data to be used shows either that you are blissfully unaware of what you are talking about or being willfully ignorant.
I get it man, you are a Steam faithful and want your belief system to remain unshaken so the conversation is upsetting. Just drop out.
You can set it to ‘work offline’, but in games meant to be PvP then fighting bots can be underwhelming. Also if you ever want to play against other humans again then you have to update to the latest version, because Steam will have forced them to update as well.
One reason why Linux gamers use Steam is specifically as a distributor: you download and indie games that is already certified to work DRM-free, then copy/cut+paste the files out to a different folder and play it there in a vapourless way.
Senethro
Overlord
Given that your explanation of the current state of things is "people who don't act like me are wrong, and therefore stupid", it would seem I am in good ignorant company.
Says the man holding a 15 year grudge about where he shops! At least half of the conversation you think we've been having has been in your head. Every new post of yours has been apparently responding to one or two new claims you believe I am making, or that you perhaps expect me to make. I've been sort of ignoring them in the hope they would go away. My bad.
Again, behaviour not unlike Berz.
Timsup2nothin
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I didn't say they were wrong. Just mislead. Anyone who buys into the BS that Steam is, or ever was "by gamers, for gamers," I do say is being mislead. Mostly that is a willful thing, of the "I have made Steam the core of my gaming and have to act like it wasn't all just a misunderstanding on my part" variety. I hate arguing with people like them, ie you, because you inevitably will take it personally and think that lashing out is called for. <shrug> As I said, I get it. You aren't the first, won't be the last, aren't the dumbest or even anywhere near the rudest.
