[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Bugfatty300]

Not sure it's relevant to the particular case you reference, but the femoral artery is big and a gunshot wound to it could kill a person pretty fast (bleeding out within minutes, easily less than 10). Your odds of surviving a shot to the leg are better than the torso, but if hit the wrong way it is still very lethal very quickly.

True. But it reportedly took him close to an hour to die.

Those aren't protestors.

They're protesters as well as vandals; the terms aren't mutually exclusive. Protests can be passive, vocal, violent, destructive, illegal, lewd, etc.

 

[Bugfatty300]

That doesn't seem to matter to some people though. I remember that little kerfluffle a few years ago where people were demanding that the CSA battle flag be taken out of some mobile game that was based on the American Civil War. The one place where it would be entirely appropriate to have such a flag, and people still wanted it removed.

It was the Apple store that removed the games (after the Dylan Roof murders) and they did it preemptively. No one was protesting or demanding that they be removed. The issue was that the flag was on the artwork being displayed on the store front. IIRC the developers just changed the art and Apple relisted them. There was never a demand to remove the flags from the actual games.

It's a classic example of a mundane thing being blown up and given a false narrative by the outrage anti-SJW echo chambers.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I got some hope in my life from an unexpected source.

Breitbarf actually acknowledged that the Tulsa rally was sort of a flop, which was interesting since they usually just deny such realities. Small hope since it is just in the propaganda arm not the populace, but...

They also had a counter story covering how the evil antifa and Black Lives Matter movement "protesters" (their fake quotes, not mine) were terrorizing the streets of Tulsa. This is typical of Breitbarf of course, so nothing hopeful there. However, given their motives it is very safe to assume that they made every possible effort and yet almost all of their pictures of the evil demonstrators showed a fairly typical Oklahoma demographic of mostly white people. It is pretty clear that (finally) Black Lives Matter to people who aren't black...which is a very good sign that we might have a future.

 

[Hrothbern]

I got some hope in my life from an unexpected source.

Breitbarf actually acknowledged that the Tulsa rally was sort of a flop, which was interesting since they usually just deny such realities. Small hope since it is just in the propaganda arm not the populace, but...

They also had a counter story covering how the evil antifa and Black Lives Matter movement "protesters" (their fake quotes, not mine) were terrorizing the streets of Tulsa. This is typical of Breitbarf of course, so nothing hopeful there. However, given their motives it is very safe to assume that they made every possible effort and yet almost all of their pictures of the evil demonstrators showed a fairly typical Oklahoma demographic of mostly white people. It is pretty clear that (finally) Black Lives Matter to people who aren't black...which is a very good sign that we might have a future.

Sipping my morning coffee and looking at the Dutch morning newspapers on the Tulsa rally...
They all report "empty chairs", "disappointing", add with one exception the story of the fake excuse of Trump that protesters caused entry access issues to the meeting.
Also the story that the original planning to have an outdoor speech after the indoor speech was cancelled by Trump because outside there were no people enough to make a positive impression.
(I guess Trump had in his mind the max 19,000 people indoors, and then tens of thousands outdoor)
In the newspapers of Friday and Saturday the background stories on the Greenwood-Tulsa massacre... and the disdain for Trump to start here his election rallies.

Trump is now continuously roasted and grilled in NL public opinion in a rather civilised matter of fact manner..

 

[aelf]

Of course. I wasn't trying to focus attention on them though. The thing about boycotting Blizzard was meant to be taken in a humorous light.

I wasn't actually referring to you. Just a general observation.

 

[Zardnaar]

Apparently Tik Tok teens screwed up Trump's rally lol. Turd cake.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/america...-say-they-ruined-us-presidents-campaign-rally

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Im beginning to believe this is inevitable and that the left needs to start arming up for it. I mean **** we’ve got trump people running 14 word ads 88 times with blatant Nazi Extermination warning signs built into the ads.

it’s time to consider this is heading for a Krystallnacht type situation and if you know Murica the way I do you should be really nervous about what that means for the rest of the planet.

He is also beating the krystallnacht drum by claiming protestors are terrorists and thugs. He is trying to pave the way for even more violence on protestors and the suppression of democracy. The coup has been slow and cold but it's turning hot and fast right in front of us. Couple this with the blatant vote rigging we're seeing in wide swathes of the country and the dismantling of all countervailing forces in the government and we may be seeing the death of democracy in the United States.

I think it bears repeating at this point. . .

https://www.capitalgazette.com/opin...0200605-xj5yvyl4ozf3vatk35oly336km-story.html

Spoiler Text :

If we’re going to speak of rioting protesters, then we need to speak of rioting police as well. No, they aren’t destroying property. But it is clear from news coverage, as well as countless videos taken by protesters and bystanders, that many police are using often indiscriminate violence against people — against anyone, including the peaceful majority of demonstrators, who happens to be in the streets.

Rioting police have driven vehicles into crowds, reproducing the assault that killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017. They have surrounded a car, smashed the windows, tazed the occupants and dragged them out onto the ground. Clad in paramilitary gear, they have attacked elderly bystanders, pepper-sprayed cooperative protesters and shot “nonlethal” rounds directly at reporters, causing serious injuries. In Austin, Texas, a 20-year-old man is in critical condition after being shot in the head with a “less-lethal” round. Across the country, rioting police are using tear gas in quantities that threaten the health and safety of demonstrators, especially in the midst of a respiratory disease pandemic.

None of this quells disorder. Everything, from the militaristic posture to the attacks themselves, does more to inflame and agitate protesters than it does to calm the situation and bring order to the streets. In effect, rioting police have done as much to stoke unrest and destabilize the situation as those responsible for damaged buildings and burning cars. But where rioting protesters can be held to account for destruction and violence, rioting police have the imprimatur of the state.

What we’ve seen from rioting police, in other words, is an assertion of power and impunity. In the face of mass anger over police brutality, they’ve effectively said So what? In the face of demands for change and reform — in short, in the face of accountability to the public they’re supposed to serve — they’ve bucked their more conciliatory colleagues with a firm No. In which case, if we want to understand the behavior of the past two weeks, we can’t just treat it as an explosion of wanton violence; we have to treat it as an attack on civil society and democratic accountability, one rooted in a dispute over who has the right to hold the police to account.

African American observers have never had any illusions about who the police are meant to serve. The police, James Baldwin wrote in his 1960 essay on discontent and unrest in Harlem, “represent the face of the white world, and that world’s real intentions are simply for that world’s criminal profit and ease, to keep the black man corralled up in his place.” This wasn’t because each individual officer was a bad person but because he was fundamentally separate from the black community as a matter of history and culture. “None of the police commissioner’s men, even with the best will in the world, have any way of understanding the lives led by the people they swagger about in twos and threes controlling.”

[Most read] Someone spray-painted ‘BLM’ on his Edgewater home. Now he’s hosting a sign-making party for Sunday anti-racism protest. »
Go back to the beginning of the 20th century, during America’s first age of progressive reform, as the historian Khalil Gibran Muhammad does in “The Condemnation of Blackness: Race, Crime, and the Making of Modern Urban America,” and you’ll find activists describing how “policemen had abdicated their responsibility to dispense colorblind service and protection, resulting in an object lesson for youth: the indiscriminate mass arrests of blacks being attacked by white mobs.”

The police were ubiquitous in the African American neighborhoods of the urban North, but they weren’t there to protect black residents as much as they were to enforce the racial order, even if it led to actual disorder in the streets. For example, in the aftermath of the Philadelphia “race riot” of 1918, one black leader complained, “In nearly every part of this city peaceable and law-abiding Negroes of the home-owning type have been set upon by irresponsible hoodlums, their property damaged and destroyed, while the police seem powerless to protect.”

If you are trying to understand the function of policing in American society, then even a cursory glance at the history of the institution would point you in the direction of social control. And blackness in particular, historian Nikhil Pal Singh argues, was a state of being that required “permanent supervision and if necessary direct domination.”

The simplest answer to the question “Why don’t the American police forces act as if they are accountable to black Americans?” is that they were never intended to be. And to the extent that the police appear to be rejecting accountability outright, I think it reflects the extent to which the polity demanding it is now inclusive of those groups the police have historically been tasked to control. That polity and its leaders are simply rejected as legitimate wielders of authority over law enforcement, especially when they ask for restraint.

A New York City Police Department that worked enthusiastically with Republican mayors Rudy Giuliani and Michael Bloomberg — mayors who found their core support among the white residents of the city — then rejected the authority of Bill de Blasio, a Democrat backed by blacks and Hispanics who had emphasized police reform when he was a candidate. Or compare the contempt for President Barack Obama from representatives of law enforcement to their near-worshipful posture toward President Donald Trump.

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Yes, some of this reflects partisan politics — it’s in the nature of policing that many of its practitioners tend to be more conservative than most — but I think it’s also influenced by a sense that neither Obama nor his appointees, like Eric Holder or Loretta Lynch, had the right to criticize them or hold them to account.

If that is the dynamic at work, then we should not be surprised when the police respond, in the main, to demands for change from the policed with anger and contempt. Nor should we be surprised by their willingness to follow the lead of a figure like Trump, who has incited America’s police forces to be even more violent with protesters (to say nothing of his past praise for police abuse).

Trump explicitly rejects the legitimacy of nonwhites as political actors, having launched his political career on the need for more and greater racial control of Muslims and Hispanic immigrants. Even without his tough-guy posturing, Trump is someone who embodies the political and social order the police have so often been called to defend.

Which is all to say that the nightly clashes between protesters and the police are, to an extent, a microcosm of larger disputes roiling this nation: the pressures and conflicts of a diversifying country; the struggle to escape an exclusive past for a more inclusive future; and our constant battle over who truly counts — who can act as a full and equal member of this society — and who does not.

c.2020 The New York Times Company

We cannot let this slide.

And if direct violence wasn't bad enough, cops all over the place are simply refusing to do their jobs in response to the criticism. At Trump's Tulsa rally, he made up a story out of whole clothe of an 'hombre' who broke into the home of a white couple while the husband was out working and raped the white wife. When she tried to call 911, she found the service wasn't working because the socialists had taken over the government and shut it down. I reiterate that this story was completely fabricated, but he reported it as gospel truth to his fans.

In reality, 911 service in Atlanta has been massively disrupted because arch-conservative police can't handle the fact that two of their own have been arrested for murder and have been calling off the job as if that were an appropriate response for officers of the peace.

The right relies on projection as a primary political source of pressure, all the way down to the street level.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Apparently Tik Tok teens screwed up Trump's rally lol. Turd cake.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/america...-say-they-ruined-us-presidents-campaign-rally

Executive order making fraudulent requesting of tickets to political rallies a capital offense already in the works.

 

[Lexicus]

And if direct violence wasn't bad enough, cops all over the place are simply refusing to do their jobs in response to the criticism

I can't help but think this is sure to backfire on them, though, like when people realize how little life changes with the cops "striking" they're just gonna be like "well we might as well cut 80% of their budget since they don't actually do anything anyway"

 

[Traitorfish]

And if direct violence wasn't bad enough, cops all over the place are simply refusing to do their jobs in response to the criticism.

A pretty good (and short) take on this phenomenon:


Link to video.

It touches on what Lexicus suggests, that police refusing to over-police mostly highlights how unnecessary over-policing is, but it also highlights the darker point that the police take this action with the expectation that the result will be significant material loss to the civilian population, including loss of life, and that they regard this as a wholly acceptable price to maintain their funding and authority. They're effectively outing themselves as a malevolent force in American public life.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I got some hope in my life from an unexpected source.

Breitbarf actually acknowledged that the Tulsa rally was sort of a flop, which was interesting since they usually just deny such realities. Small hope since it is just in the propaganda arm not the populace, but...

They also had a counter story covering how the evil antifa and Black Lives Matter movement "protesters" (their fake quotes, not mine) were terrorizing the streets of Tulsa. This is typical of Breitbarf of course, so nothing hopeful there. However, given their motives it is very safe to assume that they made every possible effort and yet almost all of their pictures of the evil demonstrators showed a fairly typical Oklahoma demographic of mostly white people. It is pretty clear that (finally) Black Lives Matter to people who aren't black...which is a very good sign that we might have a future.

I don't know, there is something off-putting about the notion that a white person trashing a place while a black person asks them to stop is a hopeful indication that black lives matter to the criminal.

"Black lives matter" apparently does not consistently extend to the lives and livelihoods of black people.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't know, there is something off-putting about the notion that a white person trashing a place while a black person asks them to stop is a hopeful indication that black lives matter to the criminal.

"Black lives matter" apparently does not consistently extend to the lives and livelihoods of black people.

Just so you know, you are parroting a totally irrelevant crock of feces here.

Nothing I said was about "white criminals trashing a place while a black person asks them to stop" and your desperate reach to inject this was frankly revolting.

 

[red_elk]

What is over-policing? Does it imply police still doing part of their normal job?

 

[Crezth]

Just so you know, you are parroting a totally irrelevant crock of feces here.

Nothing I said was about "white criminals trashing a place while a black person asks them to stop" and your desperate reach to inject this was frankly revolting.

Oh please, don’t get him started, we’ll be onto holocaust denial in just a few pages.

Moderator Action: Don't bring drama from other threads into this one (or any others). Thank you. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Hrothbern]

A pretty good (and short) take on this phenomenon:


Link to video.

It touches on what Lexicus suggests, that police refusing to over-police mostly highlights how unnecessary over-policing is, but it also highlights the darker point that the police take this action with the expectation that the result will be significant material loss to the civilian population, including loss of life, and that they regard this as a wholly acceptable price to maintain their funding and authority. They're effectively outing themselves as a malevolent force in American public life.

yes

replace the "over" of over-policing by (in effect preventive) social care and you get a much better situation.
Leaves open how much "over" there is in the over-policing... but assuming that on average 50% of US police time is a waste of time with only negatives for society seems a good start to me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Nothing I said was about "white criminals trashing a place while a black person asks them to stop" and your desperate reach to inject this was frankly revolting.

This actually happened though, including by people associated with (or at least willing to vandalize with the assertion that) black lives matter.

Possibly an organized conspiracy, possibly not. But the effect of this movement on black communities is not always positive, to put it mildly.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This actually happened though, including by people associated with (or at least willing to vandalize with the assertion that) black lives matter.

Possibly an organized conspiracy, possibly not. But the effect of this movement on black communities is not always positive, to put it mildly.

Okay, since I was talking about protests in Tulsa on Saturday provide me a link to how your "this actually happened" has ANY PISSING SHRED of relevance to the subject at hand rather than being a disgusting knee jerk avenue of conversational resistance that you barfed up in hopes of preserving your revolting position.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Okay, since I was talking about protests in Tulsa on Saturday provide me a link to how your "this actually happened" has ANY PISSING SHRED of relevance to the subject at hand rather than being a disgusting knee jerk avenue of conversational resistance that you barfed up in hopes of preserving your revolting position.

Since you were using the Tulsa example to derive hope broadly in terms of protest representation, it's not exactly out of left field to mention instances that contradict the statement and be less hopeful.

 

[Commodore]

In reality, 911 service in Atlanta has been massively disrupted because arch-conservative police can't handle the fact that two of their own have been arrested for murder and have been calling off the job as if that were an appropriate response for officers of the peace

You gotta stop acting like bad cops are exclusively conservative. The officers themselves might be majority conservative, but the cities that seem to have the biggest problems with corrupt police are cities that have been under Democrat leadership for years or, in Atlanta's case, decades. Why haven't they done anything to address the issue? After all, the elected officials are the bosses of the police aren't they?

And this isn't an attempt to put all the blame on the Democrats. It's me trying to get you out of the mindset that this is a conservative versus liberal issue. This whole thing is a common man versus the powerful elite issue and those in power, regardless of their politics, are more than happy to turn a blind eye to corrupt policing as long as that corrupt policing is preserving their status as the powerful elite.

 

[gay_Aleks]

It would be useful to recall that one of the more "liberal" city under the Democrats' rule was *Minneapolis.