[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

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It is "lot of tin foil" to assume that the white supremacist media (hardly limited to Fox!) is set against the protests challenging white supremacy? Interesting. Furthermore, where in the world is the positive light you speak of? There is basically nothing like that.
 
It is "lot of tin foil" to assume that the white supremacist media (hardly limited to Fox!) is set against the protests challenging white supremacy?

Yes. Media has intentionally misrepresented protest behavior as more favorable than it is, which is in direct contradiction to your assertion of outright massed conspiracy to cover up.

You can find video footage of reporters saying the protests are peaceful or mostly peaceful even as there is violence being captured on the video. Crimes/riots have also not been emphasized to nearly the extent of police conduct in this news cycle, but is that emphasis consistent with body count/harm done?
 
Considering the lack of dead and most businesses being okay despite the three month long constant non-stop protests here in New York and now the occupation of city hall I would say I agree with the assessment that the protests are mostly peaceful.
 
Yes. Media has intentionally misrepresented protest behavior as more favorable than it is, which is in direct contradiction to your assertion of outright massed conspiracy to cover up.

Quoted statement is factually unsupported.

TheMeInTeam said:
You can find video footage of reporters saying the protests are peaceful or mostly peaceful even as there is violence being captured on the video. Crimes/riots have also not been emphasized to nearly the extent of police conduct in this news cycle, but is that emphasis consistent with body count/harm done?

For 7 years there was footage of police beating up protesters and protesters starting riots and only now is the media able to brainwash people? I mean don't you think the massive amounts of footage of peaceful protesters being shot and gassed by police on the very first day they went out to exercise their First Amendment rights, in virtually every city in the country, might strike a tone with some Americans? Some Americans, obviously not the Americans that don't care about liberty and justice.

This is like the first time in decades the American public has actually supported rioters over jackbooted roid-raging cops. Millions of people have been turned out in the streets and seen, firsthand, what an uncompromising enemy of peace and justice the police force is. Without getting shot just for turning up, burning down the police precinct, and getting hit with batons all across the country for ignoring noon curfews, we might not have seen a complete reversal in white peoples' attitude from what it was in 2013-2016. What a sad day for the bootlickers.
 
There were a variety of abuses, but I think the video that first really surprised me with regards to abuses was the one where people were filming from their porch and a variety of officers shot them with pepper balls. A huge number of videos were hard to figure out if it was just 'heat of the moment' idiocy that's better tamped down with systemic review and admonishments over time - it's fundamentally a training issue - but the deliberate targeting of civilians on their own property without any type of stressor really showed that not only was the system poorly administered but actually given too much power against the people.

We all have cases that crossed the line, but that one ticked a lot of the boxes when I was testing an hypothesis.
 
Yeah. Like, a switch in your brain has got to be flipped when you see people getting "riot controlled" off their front porch.
 
For me, the news that they were shooting at legal observers showed that they were not only the enemy of peace and justice, but also the very concept of rule of law that they claim to champion.
 
Yes. Media has intentionally misrepresented protest behavior as more favorable than it is, which is in direct contradiction to your assertion of outright massed conspiracy to cover up.

You can find video footage of reporters saying the protests are peaceful or mostly peaceful even as there is violence being captured on the video. Crimes/riots have also not been emphasized to nearly the extent of police conduct in this news cycle, but is that emphasis consistent with body count/harm done?
Well, I should think if there has been considerably more police misconduct than rioting, it would be deeply unfair if both were reported as equal in proportion.
 
Considering the lack of dead.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...ople-killed-in-the-george-floyd-riots-n592577

and most businesses being okay despite the three month long constant non-stop protests here in New York and now the occupation of city hall I would say I agree with the assessment that the protests are mostly peaceful.

https://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2020/06/02/297361.htm

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/05/31/protests-riots-chicago-george-floyd-loop-damage/

Quoted statement is factually unsupported.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/npr-trumps-unannounced-church-visit-angers-church-authorities/

https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama...gas-to-clear-protesters-some-werent-peaceful/

For 7 years there was footage of police beating up protesters and protesters starting riots and only now is the media able to brainwash people? I mean don't you think the massive amounts of footage of peaceful protesters being shot and gassed by police on the very first day they went out to exercise their First Amendment rights, in virtually every city in the country, might strike a tone with some Americans? Some Americans, obviously not the Americans that don't care about liberty and justice.

I am disinclined to believe proven liars, and that's what most mainstream media are.

Regardless, the claim that there is a media conspiracy against the protesters doesn't have any basis.

Yeah. Like, a switch in your brain has got to be flipped when you see people getting "riot controlled" off their front porch.

Depends what went on before/after the clip too. Police aren't angels in this story, but the representation of what's been happening is skewed.

Here's a "nice" example of straight up media lying:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/us/protest-wrap-tuesday/index.html

Even in future updates of this story, news outlets note that the man "threw a woman to the ground" while strangely neglecting the fact that said women was actively assaulting him when he did so, to the extent of using her own force against her. Little is made of the people who attacked him, who each committed criminal assault and battery and gave him a very credible reason to shoot them long before he did so.

Well, I should think if there has been considerably more police misconduct than rioting, it would be deeply unfair if both were reported as equal in proportion.

If
 

This article is cartoonishly stupid.

Here are some of the highlights:
Some of these victims died at the hands of police, but in every case, the riots created the tense situations that led to their deaths.

(in other words, this author does not see the police as moral actors who can be held accountable for their actions; rather, they are simply a force of nature such as a flood or a tornado)

Portland journalist Andy Ngo has explained how antifa instigators weaponize such situations

I am disinclined to believe proven liars

Say their names!

The author doesn't seem to understand the whole reason people are "saying the names" of those killed by the police. The whole reason "Black Lives Matter" even exists is because the institutional response to police killing unarmed people is essentially nil. The killers are not held to account. Multiple examples in that list actually say that suspect(s) were arrested and charged with murder, as everyone will agree they should have been. There is nothing to discuss there. BLM is "saying their names" in part to spur arrests and prosecutions of the murderers, who can get away with murder because they're wearing a police uniform.


I am disinclined to believe proven liars

This article is a nice 2-in-1 example of proven liars: RedState.com and the Park Police!
 
Weird how a libertarian keeps coming down on the side of the police and against people protesting.

Really makes you wonder why.

Spoiler when you have no idea what libertarianism actually is :
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what even is institutional analysis?
 
Nah, it’s because the ideal libertarian state envisions a night watchman state, so have no real issue with police brutality as long as businesses are protected.

I don’t believe the ideology can be separated in meaningful ways from American conservatism and authoritarianism, at least, as a political movement.

like I’m not even sure why you are surprised. Libertarians *almost always* supported police shootings before. Why would they change tack now?
 
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Hmm, right, well, everyone knows media lies. They gotta sell ads. I don't see how this substantiates your claims, however, either the claim I quoted or the claim that the media is biased against the police and in favor of the protesters. As framed, that's just your opinion.

TheMeInTeam said:
Regardless, the claim that there is a media conspiracy against the protesters doesn't have any basis.

You're right, there's no need for it to be a conspiracy. It's much simpler to just say that peaceful protests don't pull clicks.
 
This article is cartoonishly stupid.

Here are some of the highlights:

(in other words, this author does not see the police as moral actors who can be held accountable for their actions; rather, they are simply a force of nature such as a flood or a tornado)

21 deaths...how many were by cops and why were they morally unjustifiable?

The author doesn't seem to understand the whole reason people are "saying the names" of those killed by the police. The whole reason "Black Lives Matter" even exists is because the institutional response to police killing unarmed people is essentially nil. The killers are not held to account. Multiple examples in that list actually say that suspect(s) were arrested and charged with murder, as everyone will agree they should have been. There is nothing to discuss there. BLM is "saying their names" in part to spur arrests and prosecutions of the murderers, who can get away with murder because they're wearing a police uniform.

Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown attacked people and were killed because the people they attacked defended themselves. Those are BLM's martyrs.

Weird how a libertarian keeps coming down on the side of the police and against people protesting.

Really makes you wonder why.

Nah, it’s because the ideal libertarian state envisions a night watchman state, so have no real issue with police brutality as long as businesses are protected.

I don’t believe the ideology can be separated in meaningful ways from American conservatism and authoritarianism, at least, as a political movement.

like I’m not even sure why you are surprised. Libertarians *almost always* supported police shootings before. Why would they change tack now?

Those dastardly libertarians and their evil drug war...if only we could elect Democrats to run these big cities.

Considering the lack of dead

So instead of acknowledging the rebuttal you're gonna insult the person who provided it.
 
Infraction for flaming
Correct. We can trace financial incentives for behavior with regards to these, and they are consistent with how people act with other financial incentives. We also have pretty good data about two parent households vs single parent households and outcomes for children.

It would be foolish to assume this is the only reason for disparity, just like it's foolish to assume that smoking is the only reason people die of lung complications. However, it's a causal factor with clear data that it is harmful, one of several that don't rely on statistics abuse to make unsubstantiated claims using a process that isn't consistently upheld.



This would harm the black community significantly, although it would also harm most other people.



The answer to that falls under "welfare". And yes, this is as relevant to the thread as any "disproportionate black representation" argument can be.



It was far worse because it provably existed. The racism was outright codified by law. That would definitely be considered "systemic"!



Seems so. I'd like to point out that a lot of the coverage of the protests deliberately cuts videos to misrepresent what's happening too. The New Mexico shooting was really egregious to the point of false reporting, but cutting footage to paint a narrative is consistently being done by every major news organization I've seen.



Pretty much this. And I suspect this will have a non-trivial effect on the protests themselves, as people tend to get discouraged if they're sending a message that isn't being heard.



Given what we know about most media outlets in the USA that's a lot of tin foil in supposing that they're trying to cover up protests after going out of their way to paint them in a good (or bad if it's Fox) light.

The total lack of self awareness in this response is fudging epic man gfg. Just go find a brown shirt and some black boots and get out there already you libertarian freedom fighter you!

Moderator Action: That will be enough of that. This is an RD thread. Make your point without flaming other posters. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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Citing a biased and unknown news article of which most of the allegations are unproven and at least some of the deaths are from police brutality does not make a point worth countering. In addition, I kept my wording specific to New York. Only significant case of violence I’ve observed around here originated from the police.

Regardless of the insurance figures what I’ve observed is that the streets in New York are fine despite massive ongoing daily protests. Words from people around the country in heavy protest zones (Atlanta, etc) also report relatively low damages. I am inclined to believe that the protests here are thus mostly peaceful.


In addition, I was making a general point about libertarianism. By TMIT’s logic, this shouldn’t be a personal attack against him. Thus, this is not a personal attack against him or you.
 
The total lack of self awareness in this response is ******* epic man gfg. Just go find a brown shirt and some black boots and get out there already you libertarian freedom fighter you!

Democrats spent close to 2 centuries destroying the lives of black people and now they're gonna elect the candidate most responsible for the last 5 decades of their drug war while pointing middle fingers at libertarians. Yeah, the brown shirts opposed slavery, Jim Crow and Biden's drug war. I thought Hitler and the Nazis drew inspiration for their racist ideology from the Democrats, not libertarians.

Hmm... maybe the Democrats need to cut ties with their history and find a new name.

Citing a biased and unknown news article of which most of the allegations are unproven and at least some of the deaths are from police brutality does not make a point worth countering.

In addition, I kept my wording specific to New York. Only significant case of violence I’ve observed around here originated from the police.

Your last point is valid. Which one(s) was the result of police brutality?
 
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David McAtee who got shot by national guardsmen firing into the crowd of protesters.

Jorge Gomez who was reportedly shot by the police, who claimed he had a gun.


In addition, they included few cases of which seem to have no relation to either protests or rioting, and also have included deaths caused by counter protesters as being caused by protesters. Generally, being killed by some right wing fanatic slamming a car into the crowd I would not count as being a victim of the “protests.”
 
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