GITMO (Guantanamo Bay)

[joespaniel]

What is your position regarding the POWs being held at the US military base at Guantanamo Bay?

I have noticed it has become something of a battle cry in the liberal press of late.

It is outside of US legal jurisdiction, and that is why al-Queda terrorists and former Taliban prisoners are being held there.

Under US Law, the terrorists and their supporters would be afforded the same rights as any criminal, if held in US territory.

As long as they remain at Gitmo, they have no such legal protection.

I think it is necessary, since we are still "at war" in a very unconventional sense.

I also believe these men are too dangerous to be let free.

If you disagree, what would you do instead?

 

[napoleon526]

I think that, while it might not be the most humane way to deal with these men, Guantanamo is probably the best place for the time being.

 

[Dralix]

I haven't heard much about them lately, so don't have much of an opinion on it. Out of sight out of mind, I guess.

Originally posted by joespaniel
I think it is necessary, since we are still "at war" in a very unconventional sense.

The problem here is that the "War on Terrorism" isn't about to end anytime soon. It's not like Bush and the other world leaders are going to sit down with Terrorism's president and sign a peace treaty.

 

[philippe]

Hmm but most of them probably never heard of New York....

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I'm not sure there was a need for a poll in this one.

The problem revolves around having an opaque government acting in difficult circumstances.

My hope for what is going on in Gitmo is that we have these guys we've rounded up and we are training them to be deep cover/disinformants/counterinsurgents or whatever.

My fear is that it is really just a cover up of some very ugly human rights abuse.

I'm not too interested in getting into a debate where the next logical step is a friend from the right saying "what about the rights of the people who died in NY" and I say "well what do these sheep herders have to do with that? the WTC killers died in the WTC" etc. It could go round and round and none of us would be the wiser for trading biterness.

There are two distinct American takes on the Gitmo prisoners: 1)my government knows what it is doing, that's good enough for me, and 2) damn it, these people did us wrong, we want a part of understanding the resolution. Frankly I am a bit more concerned about all the Arab Americans being held in New Jersey under similar (non-legal) pretenses.

And to back what Dralix said above, there is no "War on Terror"- you don't make war on an emotion. There was apparently a war with the Taliban in which we showed no quarter, and an ongoing (?) operation to foil Al Qaeda. But as we get closer to two years on, I think a lot of people are going to ask more transparency from our government.

 

[joespaniel]

The poll was for kicks.

I started the thread to discuss why the situation exists, after you called it a "death camp" in the Cuba Relations thread.

As far as anyone knows, no inhumane treatment is being meted out there. Certainly no executions.

It was set up to circumvent the US legal system, which has no provisions for dealing with this unconventional circumstance.

If they were placed in a State or Military Prison, the inmates would surely kill them too.

I dont know just how effective interogations have been, we probably never will.

The fact remains that these men willingly sided with an organization with the stated goal of killing US civilians, you and me.

I dont see them having an epiphany and suddenly becoming reformed and law abiding world citizens.

These are the enemy were talking about, not innocent sheepherders. Trained terrorists.

 

[Immortal]

Lock em up, dont commit any human rights abuses (to an extent) but keep them from commiting more acts of terror.

 

[vonork]

If you can't prove them as guilty for a crime, release them.

If they are pows, treat them accordingly.

 

[amadeus]

Are you saying that we aren't treating them properly?

 

[cgannon64]

This reminds me of a recent SNL skit: "Come to Camp GITMO, where the sun is bright, the air is clear, and your future is undetermined. Stay as long as you like - but only as long as we like."

I honestly don't know about their situation. Are they being treated humanly...?

 

[joespaniel]

3 hots and a cot, probably better than they were used to in Afghanistan.

Truth is, nobody really knows whats going on in there.

Maybe theyre playing that game with the sheephead on horseback.

 

[vonork]

Are you saying that we aren't treating them properly?

They are not treated as POWs. That's what I'm saying. They do however have food, and can pray and so on.

But if they ain't POWs then they should be prosecuted, and if they are then they should be treated as POWs.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by joespaniel
3 hots and a cot, probably better than they were used to in Afghanistan.

Truth is, nobody really knows whats going on in there.

Maybe theyre playing that game with the sheephead on horseback.

Buzkashi! I did a paper on that game in my Central Asia course in 93. It is actually a whole goat's body used most of the time, and the object is to be the sole controller as you ride your horse out around a goal post and back. Leads to a lot of torn up animals.

Back on topic: I don't see it as a "new" circumstance that warrants this "new" treatment. These are prisoners of war, or we are not having a war. You can't have it both ways. Are they soldiers who willingly sided against us? I am not at all sure. In a country with no tv, no news, no nothing, these guys are at probably mostly at worse guys with rifles who suddenly found themselves surrounded by the space-alien like power of the US armed forces. Are they "the terrorists" or potential terrorists? No for sure, those guys were real clever and they got away, probably long before we got to Afghanistan. But worse case scenario: these are Taliban/Al Qaeda terrorist scum. In that case our government owes it to us to take the upper hand and act better than terrorists, do this out in the open.

I regret the use of the term "death camp" in that other thread, whatever it might seem like to the inhabitants. It just gives me the creeps that we use Cuba as our "inscrutable fortress" but I guess I wouldn't be much happier if the whole thing were done in Pakistan...

 

[EdwardTking]

Maybe Fidel Castro will try to liberate them?

 

[Flatlander Fox]

If we were as bad as many of the foriegn media folks make us out to be, we would have just shot them (Fine with me BTW) and then not have had to worry about this problem.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by Flatlander Fox
If we were as bad as many of the foriegn media folks make us out to be, we would have just shot them (Fine with me BTW) and then not have had to worry about this problem.

Hey, blame liberals here at home!

I haven't really seen a lot of bad press from foreign media. I think - I hope - the plan was to try and use these guys to figure out what the heck is going on. I know they get consulted when just about anything happens that might be terror related.

If we were "as bad as they say" we would do exactly what we did, abandon all known national and international convention to round these guys up like that. No need to exaggerate.

 

[amadeus]

I say give them a week to stroll around the rest of Cuba. They'll come crawling back to Gitmo.

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I say give them a week to stroll around the rest of Cuba. They'll come crawling back to Gitmo.

...and see arguably the best health system in the world?

 

[amadeus]

Taliban: I've been shot by a guard and I'm going to die!

Doctor: No, you're not.

Taliban: But I've got a gunshot wound!

Doctor: You disagree with el Presidente! Guards! Send him to the labor camp!

 

[Immortal]

Taliban? el Presidente? Why would they be talking to each other?