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Gliese's Deity game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gliese 581, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    I also think a rennaisance war is going to be necessary here in order to win unless a diplomatic victory can be pulled off.

    I generally don't like to build the moai when I'm not industrial and don't have stone, it takes a long time to get back the lost hammers & time. There's enough food on the map to whip/draft/use workshops for production.
    I think Thebes should have the GT, the question is if there's any point to building the NE there since I didn't go that route and can't trade for it until after I get Liberalism most likely. Once I start drafting the NE will be useless there. I need to switch to caste soon to get my GSs faster.
    If I can get chemistry before SB I would own his fleet, alot depend on his tech choices.
     
  2. Cabledawg

    Cabledawg King

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    A few observations. Without SB trading techs, there is no way youll be able to catch up to the other AI's....even if they are at war. As for the gentleman who made a comment about marines.....the only way this game will see marines is when the AI is landing them attacking your Rifles.

    Attacking SB now is suicide......waiting to attack him is also suicide. The amount of hammers youll end up spending on boats will be 1/4 of the hammers he spends on protective Longbows.

    Im not saying this game is lost, but if I had to give odds on you winning at any condition.....it would be 15-1.

    The one advantage youll have over the ai is getting universities and oxford before they do.

    As for that fish tile youre trying to get from SB through culture......ignore it....that battle is over and you have lost it forever. You could put the hermitage, a theatre, monastaries, Moai, and a university there and you still wont get that tile.


    good luck with the game
     
  3. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Are you sure? Don't forget that while the tile is in their 3rd ring it's in my 2nd, giving me +18 culture per turn compared to SB beside the normal output.
    From looking at his cities I can see a totem pole in both and libraries in both beside the TGL and Taosim holy city.
    If the totem poles each give 2 culture by now SBs cities gain:
    Palace = 2
    Librariesx2 = 4
    Ancient totem polesx2 = 4
    TGL = 8
    Taoism = 5

    For a total of 23. Add to that +1 culture for each for being their furthest out ring (3rd) and you get 25 culture per turn.

    Corinth has a library and I'm creative = 4. Add 20 culture for 2nd ring (of 3) and you get 24 culture.

    The ownership is divided SB 57% Me 42% so I'm right now slowly losing out. Once the monument is in place SB will most likely have spread taoism to Chaokia so I'll continue to slowly lose ground for now.
    I can't recall rules for 4th pop is it 40 culture in 2nd and 20 in 3rd? If so I'd need to put out more culture than they do combined at that point which might indeed be impossible. :crazyeye:

    This is all of course unless deity AI gets extra culture I'm not aware of. If this is the case (I seem to recall obsolete claiming such at one time or another) then I'm certain you're right..

    Thanks.

    Edit: Choco Canyon is actually only on 2nd ring, that would mean we break even in culture on the fish right now, hmm..
     
  4. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

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    Taoism will spread to the other city, and SB will build Monasteries in both cities.
     
  5. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    It will defnitely be an upphill struggle, I'm hoping he spreads taoism to me as well. I have the Odeon also.
    Perhaps I'll only be able to take the fish by force.
     
  6. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Location:
    Netherlands
    Until 25 BC
    Spoiler :

    A quiet building round, citizens work the poor land and eat the rich seafood.Resources are connected, more workers build etc.

    Techs and events

    775 Monarchy (traded)
    725 Math
    475 Currency
    450 Masonry begin to hook marble
    425 Mono + switch to HR/OR
    400 more GG's in distant lands
    300 Aest i ultimately decided to tech it before CS since we've marble,
    maybe i should have researched it even before currency but
    researching it would have taken longer
    200 Lit
    175 Great library, chopped out in 1 turn, Taoism is founded somewhere
    75 Christianity founded in Spiro, i think i know where the Ap is
    going, good news and bad news actually.
    25 End of round, 5 cities settled now, 2 more to come in the east. I gave up
    on HE in the previous round already when i lost a 6xp archer, haven't
    seen many barbs since anyway.

    CS is halfway done.I've started on Parthenon in capital, see if i can get that one too. I had good research 900 BC, its about ok now at 100 bpt without loss, it'll perk up when CS is in. Barb Galley's are a nuisance of course i really could have used MC, as it is i've whipped a few galley's myself.

    Nothing more to add really atm, prospects are about the same as 900 BC. we'll see what happens in the next 1000 years when the game really begins.
     

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  7. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oslo
    50 AD
    Spoiler :
    Missed the BOTM due to stupid university classes sharing deadlines with the GOTM crew :)() -- so I thought I'd give this game a go instead. Don't want to hi-jack the thread so I'll keep it to mostly pictures.

    AH -> agriculture -> archery -> wheel -> pottery -> writing.

    Went for an early settler (size 2) working cows and ivory. The spot was safely fogbusted without barbarian interference so getting it going early was no problem (I settled on the grassland hill to be able to borrow cows).



    Got my academy up ~1300 BC.

    Went for early CoL for CS and a religion for relations and pacifism. I somehow got there first and founded confucianism which wasn't planned (and ended up being an inconvenience except for less cultural threat from distant AIs).






     
  8. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    ^Looks good, you're clearly following the plan you outlined some days ago. Interesting to see how it pans out.
     
  9. MattX

    MattX Chieftain

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    Any chance of founding a single city on the other continent as a beach head? Allows a slower troop build up with fewer boats.
     
  10. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    I haven't checked exactly but i don't think so. It'd have some advantages for sure but maintenance would be steep as well. Another problem is that we need to hit the core first and it's unlikely that we can found a city here.

    I plan on astro from lib myself, galleons'll transport the troops fast enough. If planning to transport with galley's however having such a beachhead would be good indeed if founded anywhere near the core.
     
  11. Snaaty

    Snaaty Deity

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    up to 1 AD (played in 1 big session, and after looking at rusten´s and dirk´s writeups, I know now that I played a bit easy, making some mistakes, but things still are looking OK so far...)

    Spoiler :
    didnt like the innital spot due to no foodres, so decided to go south 1tile, finding only cost, then settling in the forest 1E from start

    plaincows bring 3 food, cottaged FP also, so I go for early cottages

    reseach:
    wheel, pottery, (mining from a hut), bronze, AH

    build:
    warrior until size 2, worker, finish warrior and grow size 4 (begin granary) worker, found bronze, 2xphalanx

    ...

    After finding mainyl crappy land and beeing isolated (Bull lives on a nearby island, but he is also isolated, indicated by the spypoints) I decide to grab the cold + fish near Bulls capital and settle city 2 there and find myself trapped in a culturefight for about 2000 years:lol:

    View attachment 191683

    At 500 BC I finally get the fish, making the city at least decent and at 1 AD it´s decided, the fish is MINE (dont think the fish was worth it, this slowed my prosses down drastically, because city 2 was doing nothing for the above mentioned 2000 years except fighting for the fish:goodjob:)

    ...

    I just have founded city 4 at 50 BC and now are on the way to check the barb settlement blocking some (hopefully good) land in the far east of my island.

    View attachment 191681

    But there cant be much land left there, because Bulls WB only needed 4-5 turns to sail arround there.

    ...

    Capital:

    View attachment 191682

    I even settled a GS, because I had nothing better to do with him...

    ...

    In general, Creative and Phil arent good traits for isolation, but in this specific circumstances, they did their job (fishfight and GP´s), backed by marble allowing me to build the GL and the Panth.

    My plan was to gun for Aest-Lit and get the Pant GL combo up, with the marble and beeing Phil a really strong approach. It worked but slowed my innital research down a lot, delaying all the economy techs and early expansion, but now I´m recovering from it

    ...

    After reading some other reports I know now that my research is really stinky compared to rusten´s for example, but I made the follwoing mistakes in addition the choosing the Aest-Lit path (at least these are the ones I know now:crazyeye:):

    Forgetting to research sailing up to 500 BC, and therefore NOT getting foreign trade routes with Bull:cry:

    Didnt know that isolated AI´s will trade monarchy. Had I known, I would have researched alpha instead of monarchy and saved 10 turns

    Should have researched alpha-currency-col (trade for monarchy), instead I went for monarchy-col (now i will have to backfill alpha-currency before or after CS)

    Bulls religion refuses to spread into my land (nothing I can do about it, just bad luck here)

    ...

    All in all, I´m still doing OK, 100 beakers at 1 AD is OK. With a little luck in GP´s I might reach lib around 600 AD, giving me a fair chance still at least on nat (for a shot on astro, my reasearch has been to slow up to here already).
     
  12. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Parthenon in your culture battling city :goodjob:

    nice :p
     
  13. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Wow, big names participating in this now. Amazing game Rusten, I haven't checked Snaaty's game yet. Well I think this weekend will be less chaotic than the last but I might not get the next round in for a day or two yet.
     
  14. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    @Snaaty, your game looks fine to me.

    Spoiler :

    You've got a few good things going to compensate for some loss of research, you're the only one who has got the fish so far, it's not only nice to have it, it might be possible now to reach Sb with galley's, i'd have to check this really.

    You've also got Part Gl combo. This'll guarantee lots of gp later.

    Reading the trouble you and Gliese have with the fish i feel a bit better about my decision not to try. I thought it would basically only involve a monument and a library, easy enough to slow build on the gold. Those 2 SB cities are apparently pressing very hard.
     
  15. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    There is a possibility to fight SB with a cannon/Rifle based army, but we will need to pull all possible resources together for such an invasion.

    winning Lib race is must, get optics/Astro, then using lib freebie for trade around to catch up on tech.

    After meeting everyone, look for any opportunity for bribing someone strong into war with SB. This will help us a lot by reducing the requirements on our naval strength assuming SB's navy will be tied up.

    When we are ready to invade SB, make sure we have at least 1 war ally. I would prebuild some CR2 maces + a lot of CR2 cannons + rifles for this war. The window for this invasion is very small, so drafting is prob necessary. With enough CR2 cannons, even drafted rifles can do good mop up job and defensive job.

    Also some spy points should be good to bring down defenses and pillaging strategical resources.

    Reinforcements will be slow, so initially just try to take SB's capital and holding it. Guard your Core cannon forces carefully. Once we have a strong foot hold on Sb's conti, we could switch to more reinforcing Cavaries + core CR cannons for a much faster city taking task force.

    Again, the worst situiation will be a run-away Deity AI, in that case, diplomacy will be another key factor later on.
     
  16. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    If SB has rifles /steel when we get there i agree with your points, fighting him'd be enomously difficult and an ally'd be helpful. I'd try to find another victim first in that case. Or maybe try to tech on to something like infantry/tanks/marines (as you suggested earlier), depends on the rest of the world how desperate you'll get.

    If it's just Rifles/cannons against muskets/longbows even for 10 turns , it should be easy to take and keep 3 cities and i don't think SB can recover afterwards.
     
  17. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    I've been very busy lately but I will hopefully play the next round tonight.

    Edit: I've started on round 4 and aim to finish it tomorrow.
     
  18. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Round 4, 25 BC - 600 AD (26 turns):

    I decided that ABC was right about losing the culture battle over the fish in Corinth and so I started out by switching the build there from a monument to a courthouse. I also switched research from Monarcy to Civil Service in hopes that SB would aquire Alphabet so we could trade.
    My 2nd GS was saved for a philosophy bulb later on.

    1AD: Taosim spread to Corinth. Islam FIDL.

    25: Switch to Taoism after SB to improve diplomacy.

    100: SB sent a galley (with settler presumably) toward the horse spot and I find myself in a race to get there. I finally have a bit of luck with barbarians as a barb galley takes it out.



    I switch to Caste System to run extra scientists in my GP farm. GG #7 BIDL.

    125: Abandoning the culture battle in the northwest turns out to be sound advice as SB completes the Parthenon in Cahokia definitely killing my chances of a nonviolent takeover of the fish.

    175: I found my 6th city to claim the horses.



    200: The AP is built by a hindu.

    275: GG #8 BIDL.

    325: Finish Civil Service and start on Monarchy since SB unfortunately still hasn't got Alphabet. I elect to wait the 2 turns for Monarchy in order to switch to HR and Bur at the same time with only 1 turn anarchy.

    350: GS #3 born in Thebes, saved for Education bulb.

    375: I finish Monarchy and decide to switch to Paper as I won't have enough GSs to bulb it and the other techs needed to start on Liberalism. I revolt to HR + Bur. SB is now pleased with me and I succesfully beg 40 gold from him.

    400: Getting 200 beakers per turn at 100% science, it would have been much higher if I'd gotten pottery earlier I think.

    425: GG #9 BIDL.

    475: GG #10 BIDL.

    500: Hagia Sophia BIDL.

    540: Confucianism and Islam shrines BIDL.

    560: I finish Paper and decide to delay Alphabet a little longer despite having GSs ready to bulb. SB might still get it for me to trade and I need a 4th GS to instantly buld philosophy and education anyhow so Liberalism is not delayed as long as I get alpahbet at the same time my 4th GS is born. I go for Aesthetics to get Drama for theaters.

    580: Notre Dame BIDL.

    600: GG #11 BIDL. Liberalism discovered by distant civ! :/ So much for that plan I guess despite all the warring.
    I decided to end the round here as this event requires a reassessment of my strategy.

    Empire shot:



    I have a settler fortified and a second on its way. I've delayed settling the last spots in hopes of getting a last barb to unlock the HE with my 8xp Phalanx. There's a barb warrior down in the fog but he'll only give me 1xp. SB has a settler and horse archer in Thebes but they've been camping there for a while.

    Demographics are not very cheerful:



    City shots, capital and gp farm:





    Where do I go from here, is an invasion still feasible? I suppose bulbing Philosophy and Education might still be the best use of my GSs (though bulbing Edu twice seems like a waste now) but what about regular teching? Should I try for Optics to meet the other civs or will they appear soon enough?
    What kind of unit should I go for if I decide to still push for a war. Cannons are looking useful for such a venture.
    Perhaps I can get the NE in Thebes and generate some GSs for Chemistry.
    Or should I focus on economy and try to get a backdoor UN win? (hard to say without meeting the other civs I guess but the situation looks grim)

    Oh and sorry about the delay, I've had lots of work but the next round won't be as long. :)
     

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  19. Silverdawn

    Silverdawn Prince

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    Why did you hold on to three scientists for bulbing instead of bulbing them as soon as you earned them? Was it because the path wasn't available yet because you didn't have Alphabet? Or was it so you could use them for something else in case someone beat you to liberalism?
     
  20. Mack_Jagger

    Mack_Jagger Warlord

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    Man this looks like a tough one. They are teching quite well on the other side and you're stuck with Sitting Bull who is possibly one of the most useless tradingpartners in the game. Maybe it's to late to start to build for a cultural victory? A diplomatic victory ought to be possible though.
     

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