Gma02: “First Come, First Severed” - Training Day Game

[gmaharriet]

If I am correct, the top of the file looks like this?

Yep, that's about it. I have no idea what most of the entries mean. My file (before I fixed it) had no entry at all for AIPatrol, but maybe then it just defaults to whatever is written into the game code. I had to add the whole thing.

 

[choxorn]

Mine also lacks an AI patrol entry. Thanks, now I know how to fix it!

 

[choxorn]

Oh, and, my PTW .ini file lacks the line too- should I add it in?

 

[Bede]

The nerfing of the barbarians was a Conquests thing.

And the NoAIPatrol entry is not found in the original configuration file. Just add at the bottom of the file the complete line: NoAIPatrol=0. That resets the AI behavior to more like PtW and Vanilla Civ3.

Play on gma!

 

[Aabraxan]

Do we have a consensus on moving directly east? If so, I'll move and establish our city, take a screenie and post it for discussion on opening moves.

East sounds good to me. Take it away, gma!

Any thoughts on first worker moves & research path? Worker is now standing on a hill, so I'd say move worker onto one of the BGs and begin mining either mining or roading. I'd opt for mining, because it seems like the priority right now ought to be exploring our immediate area for settlement prospects.

Research path? Normally, I really, really like the Republic slingshot, but Warrior Code is looking awfully tempting.

 

[gmaharriet]

Research path? Normally, I really, really like the Republic slingshot, but Warrior Code is looking awfully tempting.

Yes, Warrior Code is tempting for me as well, cause we'll need archers until we can get (I hope) Gallics, and they're so much better for barb slaying. Since I'm only going to plant the town, I'll set it to WC, start a warrior, and snap a pic before hitting enter. We won't have any turns invested yet and can still discuss.

I'll also see who our opponents are and their starting techs, since if lots of them already have WC, we can trade for it. It will be interesting to see who else already has Alpha, coz we don't.

I guess the worker can move directly east to mine. Cya in a bit.

 

[gmaharriet]

My HUGE turnlog:

1 - 4000bc - Move settler east to grass. Woo hoo!!! We've got steak, um, I mean a cow in our 9-tile radius. Also another forest in our bfs.

2 - 3950bc - Establish Entremont, warrior due in 5, research set to Warrior Code (this can still be changed) due in 23.

I left the worker unmoved yet on the hill. If I send him directly east to mine, he'll need 2 turns to cross the river to the cow after roading and/or mining. I'm thinking if he goes N/E to mine and road, he won't have to cross the river going through the city to the cow, but my mind is blank on that atm. The river bends there, so I think he'll have a direct shot.

We need to discuss the research and worker move, so I'm also uploading the save if anybody wants to take a look at the worker vs river situation. The pics are in spoiler tags, because I've never learned to crop a pic using MS Paint.

Our empire:

Spoiler :

MapStat shot of opponents and their starting techs:

Spoiler :

Golly, it's been so long since I've played an SG, I'd forgotten how much longer it takes to log, grab pics and upload.

 

[choxorn]

Look at all the BG's!! That's a very productive location. Just wait until the Industrial Age...

And just to annoy everyone,

Number of civs starting with certain techs:

Bronze Working: 0
Masonry: 3
Alphabet: 4
Pottery: 4
Warrior Code: 1
Wheel: 0
Ceremonial Burial: 4

 

[gmaharriet]

And just to annoy everyone,

Nah! choxorn, you and I had a rather rough start about a year ago. You've become quite a useful helper since then, and it's fun having you around. Nice summary! Thank you.

 

[Tone]

lurker's comment: Wow! That looks like a really powerful start with all those river bgs and the cow. I would say 'Good Luck' but I don't think that you guys will need it. I'm enjoying the discussions so far-thanks for getting this going Harriet.

The pics are in spoiler tags, because I've never learned to crop a pic using MS Paint.

I save it as a JPEG, select Image-Stretch/Skew to reduce it to 65% on both Horizontal and Vertical and then save it again. Maybe there are easier ways than that but this works for me.

 

[Aabraxan]

Nice work, Chox! That tells us that the Trade Bait right now is Bronze Working and The Wheel. My gut tells me that BW will be more highly valued than Wheel, but that's more instinct than knowledge. (For those among us with whom I haven't played an SG, let me go ahead and state that my gut isn't very refined in Civ.) BW gets Colussus and the AI loves Wonder techs. The Wheel doesn't get a Wonder.

Nonetheless, WC is still a decent pick for the archers and the possibility of trade, with only 1 civ having it.

Wahoo! A cow at the capitol! I think that once the tile 1 W of the capitol is roaded, the worker can be standing on the cow in one move, because the city tile is automatically roaded & because the worker won't have to cross the river. So the worker can be working the cow in 11 turns, if we improve everything in between, as follows: (1) Move 1 NE (1 turn); (2) Mine BG (6 turns); (3) road BG (3 turns); (4) Move onto cow (1 turn). Irrigation would be an additional 4 turns.

Looking at the above, though, I think the smarter move is to send the worker to the cow right now. In that case, we could be finished irrigating the cow in 7 turns. Move-move-move-irrigate.

Edit: @ Tone: It's certainly a more promising start than Aabra01 got!

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

Maybe you should be looking ahead at building a granary - you have everything that you need for a four turn Settler factory.

 

[choxorn]

Honored lurker's comment:

Nice work, Chox! That tells us that the Trade Bait right now is Bronze Working and The Wheel. My gut tells me that BW will be more highly valued than Wheel, but that's more instinct than knowledge. (For those among us with whom I haven't played an SG, let me go ahead and state that my gut isn't very refined in Civ.) BW gets Colussus and the AI loves Wonder techs. The Wheel doesn't get a Wonder.

Nonetheless, WC is still a decent pick for the archers and the possibility of trade, with only 1 civ having it.

You're right- the AI always researches Bronze Working first if they're not Scientific. Warrior Code is always next. Starting with WC certainly isn't a bad idea, seeing as there aren't any Scinetific civs.

Edit: @ Tone: It's certainly a more promising start than Aabra01 got!

For sure.

lurker's comment:

Maybe you should be looking ahead at building a granary - you have everything that you need for a four turn Settler factory.

Not quite- they need one more excess food. This cannot be a 4-Turn Factory in Despotism. It can be a 6-turn factory easily, but not a 4-turn one.

 

[Tone]

lurker's comment: Steady, Chox! The Celts are AGR so the cc is +3. Add an irriagted cow for +2 food and there's a four turner there for sure.

 

[Kickbooti]

This IS the group for me, I was able to find and fix my NoAIpatrol thing (I think, we'll see when I fire it up). If you can lead me through technical fixes then I know this is the short bus for me.

And on that short bus note, I live by Einstein's maxim "Never memorize anything you can look up." With that in mind are there charts, summaries, tools etc. that you guys would recomend so that when my turn comes up (thank you for making me last) I don't pull a Carter and run the ship aground?

 

[Aabraxan]

And on that short bus note, I live by Einstein's maxim "Never memorize anything you can look up." With that in mind are there charts, summaries, tools etc. that you guys would recomend so that when my turn comes up (thank you for making me last) I don't pull a Carter and run the ship aground?

Kickbooti,
I'm totally in the dark as to what you have and don't have, and I am going to assume that you've got either CivAssistII &/or MapStat.

As far as charts, summaries, etc., there are some reference charts in the Reference Section, here, that I refer to frequently for statistics on terrain, units, civs, governments, etc.

That's about it.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Steady, Chox! The Celts are AGR so the cc is +3. Add an irriagted cow for +2 food and there's a four turner there for sure.

Oh right, forgot about the agri bonus.

 

[Bede]

Okay, let's start over, this start is way too juicy

In the current configuration and without a granary the city is at +4 food and will stay there as it grows. Moving across the territory and irrigating the cow pasture won't do much to that curve until a granary is place. And I have a prejudice against crossing fields without fully improving them (unless I am chaining irrigation) so it will be better for the overall productivity of the empire to develop the three bonus grass fields before watering the cows. The real trick with this starting location is going to be keeping the workers ahead or abreast of the citizens.

So here is TGOM's "suggestion" for development order.



The objective for a four turn settler farm (with a granary) is a sequence that delivers +5 food each and every turn and 7 shields at size 4 and 5 (t1 & t2 & t3 of the cycle), and 9 shields at t4 so a mine on the field marked 3 may be too many shields.

 

[scoutsout]

@Harriet: Thanks for the e-mail prodding me out of the books. Now back to one of my favorite pastimes - goading the ol' Monk.

...I have a prejudice against crossing fields without fully improving them

As do I... generally. What I actually hate is wasting worker moves... and it's easy to waste worker moves when you cross a river.

...the locomotive for the TGOM - food! gold! shields!

You said it! Now consider this:

Move the worker to the #1 tile in your screenshot, and road that sucker. In my opinion, you will always want a citizen working the cow... if you take the worker over there and road that bovine tile, you'll net yourself another shilling, will you not?

I think if you consider roading the cow as the worker's second task, you might find you have some nice options that don't involve wasting worker moves. From there you can irrigate the cow or go back over to #1 and mine the BG...without wasting a worker move.

The main thing you don't want to do is cross the river onto a tile that's already roaded. If you road #1 and #4, then cross the river to work #2...then you'll want to go to the tile NW of the city center when you come back across the river...

Just my $0.02 from the peanut gallery.

...and oh yeah, good luck team!

 

[Whomp]

Wow, wow, wow! Lookee there. It seems Gram is bringing back all the usual suspects.

I guess I would ask why even cross the river for #2 and #3?

• You could road, as Scout said, #1
• Move to #4 irrigate then road (someone should check the math to see what makes sense since it could be vice versa road then irrigate)
• Run back to #1 and mine the BG
• Then move to the NW BG mine road (or vice versa)
• Then N BG rinse and repeat