Gold balancing issues

[Necratoid]

Actually, my suggestion for the extra being converted to on a specificly the weakest common tech a Ai or Player knows of, but doesn't have, is to speed up tech diffusion without the constant AI begging for it.

I may be getting what is considered tech diffusion wrong... but with the option on it tends to slow down the game with the every other turn being a constant barrage of "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!" from the Ai.

I think you have to be careful about adjusting tech rates to much... researching things at the speed of eternity takes between 10-15 turns to complete a topic if its about the level your Civ should be research right then. adjusting it too much with cause other issues.

I think it may also mean C2C needs to actually explain what population points actually mean. Critical mass for a technologic endless charge of progress tends to hit around one million people in a society from the working estimates I've heard. At that level you have enough people that don't need to farm or guard or run things that you can have people with enough free time to study things and research. At that point you should get a massive research boost.

---
2% isn't worth bothering with a revolution for... the AI doesn't bother changing civics until it hits oral traditions. This means the AI is already inventing language to explain stories it has before coming up with a way a method of comunicating that the stories are ment to speed up.

Lets explore Language for a minute:

-0% Can't comunicate anything that isn't right the happening now. Point and grunt interface.

-5% Now your group understands these 'word' things express concepts and actual things in a standardized format, but you haven't had a chance to get more than the basics down.

10% Trade: You doubled your skills at explaining things to the point non local can get what your after, kinda

25% some rare people understand what your language and those guys language mean... and can explain to both groups.

50% Now that its common to find people that speak other languages.

100% we have fancy machines to tell us what they ment without ouside help! Programmers never meake mistakes... ever.

Anyway... I'd go with 0% 5% 10% 20% 40% then 50%. The first three upgrades are real tangle advance. The last two are just streamlining the process and speeding up the rate of communcation. So those I'd adjust.

 

[Nevets_]

@Nevets

What would negative research do? In early game I could see AI possibly not being able to research at all if we are in the negative science.

I'm not saying a flat penalty, just a -% like you see in some of the other civics. I suppose it's possible that with enough of the 'wrong' civics you might have a -100% or higher research modifier, but I doubt it.

If it's 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 100% right now, I'm saying change it to

-25%, -10%, 0%, 25%, 50%

This will slow down tech research without having to change tech costs or building yields, and it will make using the sliders more valuable since the disparity between research and gold isn't so much.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm not saying a flat penalty, just a -% like you see in some of the other civics. I suppose it's possible that with enough of the 'wrong' civics you might have a -100% or higher research modifier, but I doubt it.

If it's 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 100% right now, I'm saying change it to

-25%, -10%, 0%, 25%, 50%

This will slow down tech research without having to change tech costs or building yields, and it will make using the sliders more valuable since the disparity between research and gold isn't so much.

Don't put it past the AI, they do stupid things like having so much negative it comes out positive. I suspect they would figure out a way to get -100% science. This is why for language I don't want them having negative science.

Anyway... I'd go with 0% 5% 10% 20% 40% then 50%. The first three upgrades are real tangle advance. The last two are just streamlining the process and speeding up the rate of communcation. So those I'd adjust.

I see what your saying. Hmm. Maybe just have it double. so instead of 50% at the end you get like 80%. By then you will need all the science you can get to research the galactic era techs anyways. They have huge costs.

EDIT: Pushed to the SVN.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is not occurring early in the game but from the Classical Period onwards. Changing the civics this way will lengthen all periods however I am not convinced it will solve the "problem".

 

[Hydromancerx]

The problem is not occurring early in the game but from the Classical Period onwards. Changing the civics this way will lengthen all periods however I am not convinced it will solve the "problem".

It might help since the early ones have not chnaged too much ...

Before/After
0/0
5/5
10/10
25/20
50/40
100/80

You can get up to Interpreters at writing which means 20% rather than 25%. Which is 5% less. Then after that its 10% less of what you would get before. And lastly 20% less than the last civic.

It should not effect early game and late game would have to be tested to see if its any better.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So how is any of this going to cause the Player to use the Culture and Espionage slider more?

I just don't see it. And all it seems to me that is happening is that the root cause is still not being addressed but just getting buried deeper.

I'll bet 45* will still keep his Sci slider at 100% and still not use the Culture or Esp sliders.



JosEPh :/

 

[Hydromancerx]

So how is any of this going to cause the Player to use the Culture and Espionage slider more?

I just don't see it. And all it seems to me that is happening is that the root cause is still not being addressed but just getting buried deeper.

I'll bet 45* will still keep his Sci slider at 100% and still not use the Culture or Esp sliders.



JosEPh :/

It wasn't. I was addressing the complaint that the techs come too fast.

I never bother with the border civics, leaving it on what ever the default is. I still have the problem with techs happening to fast.

 

[JosEPh_II]

My Bad then. I was tired from a 12 hr day and didn't understand what I was reading.

I'll shut up now and go hide.

JosEPh

 

[ori]

just started a new game and have noticed the early prehistoric teching is going much faster - is that intended?

 

[Hydromancerx]

just started a new game and have noticed the early prehistoric teching is going much faster - is that intended?

Nothing really has been changed for prehistoric. Have you be subduing a lot of animals and making myth buildings? Those can really boost teching.

 

[ori]

I haven't even managed to get out of my city yet, but on snail speed it just feels very fast to research e.g language in 4 turns on deity...
Maybe I am just misremembering it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I haven't even managed to get out of my city yet, but on snail speed it just feels very fast to research e.g language in 4 turns on deity...
Maybe I am just misremembering it.

That sounds bout right (depending upon your starting location).

 

[Necratoid]

I think any basic language that takes longer than that to research, means that your trying to build a society completely out of insane, antisocial hermits... even then if your getting close enough to breed a new generation your going to need at least a codified list of obscene gestures. If nothing else to represent exactly how much you want other to go away through primordial interpretive dance.

in short, there is only so much effort it can take to do the first few research topic without aliens actively hosing you down with disgruntalment rays.

 

[ori]

my main thing is that for some odd reason the all techs were half price or less in that game when compared to a new one I just set up (language 53 compared to 115 ) on the same settings (deity, snail, gigantic map with standard number of opponents) - I have no idea what happened between setting that up yesterday and the new game today

 

[Necratoid]

This may seem like a silly question... but did you have a different leader? If not I can only suggest it was either a better starting terrain effect or your doing a custom game and changed something random.

If none of those try starting a few random games then quit right after checking if it keeps changing at random. Then report back.

 

[Nevets_]

my main thing is that for some odd reason the all techs were half price or less in that game when compared to a new one I just set up (language 53 compared to 115 ) on the same settings (deity, snail, gigantic map with standard number of opponents) - I have no idea what happened between setting that up yesterday and the new game today

Are you positive your earlier game was set for the same speed? Often times I accidentally change a setting in the custom game screen when I try to scroll with my mouse wheel while the cursor is hovering over a drop down.

 

[ori]

I triple checked its all games set to snail speed... I have no explanation for this, if it ever happens again I'll actually save relevant saves etc...

 

[Hydromancerx]

So how are people doing with gold now that we have the crime stuff put in? Still too much?

 

[BlueGenie]

It's better for sure. I'm a little peeved though that Counterfeiting, an early and low crime Crime, gives as much as -10 gold per turn.. I'm also thinking that with the crime buildings having as much - gold as they do the -gold counts should come after income*percent rather than having (income-costs)*percent. More trouble for sure to set up but would allow you awesome Team to add more -gold stuff and set things like certain Crimes as +percent Maintenance. (bigger cities = more problems with crime).

Cheers

 

[strategyonly]

So how are people doing with gold now that we have the crime stuff put in? Still too much?

Well let me put it to you this way, i have my slider alot in the 0-20% range then once i hit Ancient i can finally put it at 100%

I just got to Classical, so cant tell anything after that yet, The new timelines/handicaps really have helped out.