GOTM 37 Second (and final) Spoiler.

[Sabre]

Open PTW 1.21

Ancient Age Spoiler

The Ancient Age Recap

The AA went fairly smooth. Salamanca was a 4 turn warrior/settler factory and Niagara Falls built the Forbidden Palace south of the coastal cattle. France had built a ton of wonders including the Great Library so they became my target of choice for a new palace. I decided to wait and let the techs build up while I milked my MWs for all they were worth. Carthage was first and the Great Carthaginian War lasted from 270bc - 30bc. The techs gained from Carthage propelled me to the Middle Ages.

Arabia

With Carthage gone (Hannibal decided to ally his one little city with Germany against India and died soon after) and all my MWs in the northwest I declared war on Arabia in 30ad. Arabia had some muskets making them a bit tougher. My lack of culture also started slowing me down and I had numerous flips. MWs stationed next to (but not in) captured cities usually within a turn of them flipping. In 110ad I had the GL Shenandoah created and killed on the same turn during Arabia's counterattack. Luckily for me GL Cornplanter was created a few turns later and turned into an army. There was nothing worth building and it would be awhile before I would have my planned Capital in France. In 250ad I had Arabia on the ropes and I began eyeing India as my next target when Rome made a surprise declaration of war!

Rome

With much of my forces across the continent I call in Germany and Persia to help with the Romans. They didn't really do much other then soak up some of Rome's offensive units (mostly Legions.) Once I got a decent force across the jungle the Roman towns started falling fairly quickly. In 290ad I finished Arabia and I really wanted to concentrate my forces on one of my western neighbors so I stopped reinforcing my Roman forces and began building up to flood India. In 370ad GL Tecumseh is created and a little later I trade for peace with Rome, ending up with Chivalry in the process. With a GL ready for a Palace and 36 Knights immediately upgraded I changed my target to France.

France

Lucky break for me - India declared war on France 3 turns before I did. India's War Elephants and Frances' Knights and Cavalry duked it out a bit before I made my move. In 430ad I declare on France. The Knights cut through them like butter and in 480ad I capture Paris and the Great Library. 17 free techs! In 520ad I had the last of the French cities taken. France avoids destruction for the moment with a wandering settler. New Salamanca is formed in the center of the French cities and the Palace is rushed there. France had a motherload of wonders - Great Library, Great Wall and Copernicus' Observatory in Paris, Shakespeare's Theatre in Lyons, Smith's Trading Company in Orleans and Sistine Chapel in Rheims.

India

It's cavalry time and India gets to go first. Declare in 560ad. The same turn Persia conquers Germany giving them control of the north and south parts of the eastern continent. Rome and I keep the two halves seperated. India goes smoother than the other civs. Cavalry is so much fun to play with, though this late in the game my time with them will be short. I decide to just raze the Indian cities this time and resettle on my own. A Persian settler manages to land in the south but otherwise I'm free to claim the Indian land at my lesiure. The Indian War lasts 8 turns and I turn my attention to the east.

Rome Part II

In 670 I redeclare on Rome. Rome poses no problem, but Persia is a huge different story. I needed to make a decision here on how I wanted to win the game. Domination or Conquest would involve slugging it out with Persia's Riflemen and not much later Infantry. Out of the peaceful victories Space has always been my favorite so that's what I target. GL Red Cloud is produced during the slow but uneventful war with Rome. Red Cloud decides to hang out in lovely Niagara Falls awaiting Scientific Method. In 880 I finally eliminate Rome. Now it's just me and Persia.

Iroquois at Peace

880 to 1415 saw a long stretch of peaceful research. With a large standing army necessary along my huge border with Persia I wasn't able to research at 100% but I came pretty close. For the first half of this stretch I was getting techs every 4 turns, but in 1275 I finally passed up Persia in technology and dropped to 6-7 turns. In 1340 Motorized Transportation was achieved and the tanks buildup that followed dropped my research to 8-9 turns. In 1415 it's decided we have the forces to crush the Persian threat and we demand Persia removes their troops - with the predictable result.

The Last War

South Persia faces the brunt of our attack while Infantry and Artillery hold the north and slowly take border towns. South Persia falls steadily to our tanks and I begin to really pay attention to the domination limit, keeping just the cities with wonders (there are many in south Persia.) In 1470 the south is conquered and my full attention heads north. Persia is crippled and the war goes into slow GL fishing mode. Sitting Bull, Shenandoah II and Cornplanter II all are created during the ending of the war. They rush the SETI Program, the Internet and the Cure for Cancer. In 1605 I trade peace to Persia for Sanitation and Amph War. Persia is down to just one tundra town in the north. Later they would slip a settler past my blockade when I fail to notice their borders expand.

Space

In 1645 I gift Persia to the Modern Age and trade for their free tech - Fission. Paris builds the Apollo Program in 1650 and it's just research and parts building from here. In 1786 the Iroquois launch and victory is achieved!

Firaxis - 8525
Jason - 7999

This was a really fun game and the first in a long time where I wasn't trying a 5CC. It was good to get back to some unbridled warmongering! I don't see any faster Space wins in this thread but I'm sure someone's hiding in the shadows to snatch a medal from me.

 

[solenoozerec]

Sorry Jove. I feel your pain. We don't have a satisfactory way to score an incomplete game. Burning your civ to the ground and letting the AI walk into your capital is the only way I know to end it quickly.

Wait a minute . I did it differently. I destroyed all my cities accept for a capital as you said. It was not possible to abandon a capital without a settler. So I rushed a settler, abandon my capital and disband my settler. After that I was told that I experienced an embarrassing conquest loss (whatever ).
I submitted an autosave file, it failed. I contacted you. You kindly explained me that I should save it manually and submit a manual save. I did it, your engine chew it without complaining and I was happy.
Now you say that AI should walk into my capital. Does it mean that my submission was invalid?

 

[bradleyfeanor]

[/Shadows]

Predator

Initial Thoughts/Plans
Deity level, hurray! I’m going for space, although that may change, as I know I will be pressed for time this month.

Early Game
I wanted to ensure there wasn’t another cow or wheat near the start, so worker W to cow, scout W, S. I then founded Salamanca on the start. After only a few moves with my Scout, I discovered the wheat fields to the southwest. This changed my intended builds of another 2 scouts before a granary. Instead, I built one warrior and went straight to a granary, finishing it in 3150bc. I then built a settler, two workers and a barracks. I also decided to research the wheel at minimum. Since I wasn’t sending out scouts to pop huts, it seemed a wise choice.

My first settler went to claim the wheats at RCP6/6.5 (city founded in 2750bc). I planned to claim the wheats (and block the AIs) with that city, and then to found two more at RCP4/4.5 that could each share a wheat. However, that was down the road. My next city priority was to found a city that could share the irrigated game tile south of the capitol, because my capitol would only need it every other turn to maintain the 4-turn warrior/settler factory. To my great surprise and dismay, the French beat me to this important spot in 2590 bc. I was shocked that they did not first claim the incense or the flood plains further south. I assumed there must be a resource in the area that I couldn’t see.

Once I claimed the city locations around the wheats, the two northern cows, the wine, and the choke point to the east, I intended to get rid of that French city.

Huts
2150 bc deserted
1575 bc a very corrupt and vulnerable tundra town north of Germany.

Contacts
3700 bc France
3500 bc India
3350 bc Carthage
3100 bc Arabia
2470 bc Persia
2350 bc Romans
2070 bc Germany

I expanded peacefully throughout the QSC period, and the only hitch was really that unexpected French city next to my Capitol. I tried to flip it with culture, but it just wouldn’t.

I was able to keep up in tech pretty easily due to controlling the choke point. I believe the only things I researched myself were The Wheel, Poly and Literature. I could have entered the middle ages in 1200bc, on the turn I researched Poly, but I decided to wait because I did not want Horseback Riding. I wanted to build a few more chariots while I could. This turned out to be a mistake, because the AIs did not research a government tech until long after I thought they would—710bc. I did not want to trigger a GA before my governement change, so those chariots/mounted warriors just sat around for a long, long time.

Barbs were no problem at all thanks to the predator AIs. I think I only saw three camps, and all were destroyed within a turn or two.

End of QSC

15 cities
41 citizens
3 granaries
6 temples
4 barracks
8 workers
15 slaves
1 scout
3 warriors
15 swords
6 chariots
Embassies with Everyone except the French and Persians
All techs except HR (on purpose) and the optionals.
Lit is due in 7, FP is due in 12.
Only furs and horses connected. Wine and Incense will be connected in 3, and iron is being connected/disconnected.
526g (-13gpt)
In 6th place with 456, Persia is 1st with 709.

Unfortunately, the Persians beat the French to the Pyramids by one lousy turn. Going after Persia seemed incompatible with my spaceship goal, so I did not change my plan to attack France. Given where I was going to have my FP (just to the west of the first city), the best location for a palace jump seemed to be an Indian city just west of Paris. That location would have very little overlap with the core around my FP.

French War 1050bc – 550bc
The French had lots and lots of spears and warriors (predator bonus), even though I put them at war with India several turns before my troops arrived. I guess they didn’t do much fighting. I had lots of swords though—15, and more would be arriving shortly. I made slow progress through their cities. Several key events happened during this period: I entered the MAs in 850 by trading currency to Germany for HR (I didn’t need any more chariots at that point, because I knew I would be in Republic soon and could short-rush Mounties. In 610 I was finally able to trade for Republic, and I revolted immediately. Finally, in 550bc, I got my first leader while taking their last city. That was not the end of the French though. The once mighty civ lived on for another 1.5 millennia aboard a galley. When I finally found that Galley (with a Destroyer in 940 AD), I felt sorry for them. Still sent that little rowboat to Davey Jones though.

I gifted the Persians and Germans into the Middle Ages, but they both got Feudalism for their free tech, and it was too expensive for me. The Arabs also sneak attacked in 670bc and took one of my cities, but then I allied Carthage against them, so I did not see any more Arabian units.

I used my leader to rush the Great Library in a small formerly-French tundra town. I chose this remote location because I wanted to give the city away just before getting education, and I did not want to give someone a good city.

Indian War 430bc – 250ad
This war did not go too well. I was using Med Inf and knights in this war, not Mounted Warriors, because I did not want a GA until I had two fully developed cores up and running. I allied Carthage against India when I declared and then I immediately took two cities. After that though, it got ugly. At the beginning of the war, India was broke and far behind in tech. Somehow, however, they managed to get Musketmen in the middle of the war. In the course of 6 turns I went from 24 Knights to 4. I should have just backed off and waited to jump my palace. Instead, I built more troops and sent them down. Eventually I had to grant India peace due to war weariness. They still had three cities.

During this period I got several techs from the Great Library, but when I got Theology in 10bc, I gave the city to Carthage (my next target). I then researched Chemistry and Metallurgy myself. I also got a Great Leader, but I ended up holding on to him until Bach was available.

I was not able to jump my palace until 150bc. This was not only because it took me a while to take the city, but also because the city needed an aqueduct, a harbor and lots of irrigation before I could jump my palace. I only had 11 knights available to put in the city, so that meant it needed to have a population of at least 9. Otherwise, my palace would have jumped to an undesirable location.

Here is a screenshot of my civ in the middle of the Indian War, just prior to entering the AD’s. My FP is in Cattaraugus (Northwest near Carthage), my new palace is in Kirachi (far south near India).

Carthaginian War 350ad – 460ad
I began this war immediately after researching Mil. Trad. and upgrading to cavalry, and I allied the entire world against Carthage by trading them the tech. I began the war with 22 cavalry, but many more would follow, and Carthage fell quickly. They obligingly built Leonardo’s Workshop in their capitol on the first turn of the war, and on the last turn of the war I got another leader. I kept that leader until the Modern Age, when he rushed the Internet.

My first target was to reclaim the Great Library. I had hoped to be able to wait until the AIs had entered the IA before taking it back, but they were researching all the optional techs (I could tell because they began building Magellan, Smiths and Bach). I decided it would be wise for me to research out of the age myself, because it looked like the AIs were just going to waste time. I netted Navigation, Astronomy and Education from retaking the library. I researched Physics and ToG myself, and I built Newtons (palace prebuild) two turns after the war ended.

I then made a horrible discovery: my rep was gone. I am not sure how it happened, and it was very, very upsetting. All my luxury deals were still in effect, so I really don’t know what could have caused it. I went back and checked my saves after I submitted my game: my rep was fine before the war with carthage, fine during the war with carthage, but blown after I made peace. I didn’t have any luxury deals tied to the war, only GPT. If you elliminate an AI, and have alliances against that AI tied to GPT, does that destroy your rep?

Arabian War 510ad – 630ad
I declared on Arabia on the same turn I entered the IA. This war could have gone faster, but I was really only killing them because I had lots of cavalry left over from the carthage war. My focus was entirely on research and growth at this point. I decided it was a good time to kick off my GA with a Mounted Warrior: almost all core cities had markets and libraries, along with aqueducts and harbors if needed. A little more than half of them had universities. Before this point I had gone to great lengths to avoid my GA. I gave up a city at one point because all I had in the city were 6 mounted warriors. I just stepped my Mounties out of the way and let the AI have it. I also twice gave away (temporarily) a french city that had the colossus in it: the first time when I built Newtons, the second time when I built Bach. If I had kept that city, the colossus would have thrown me into a GA too early.

On the first turn of this war, I also gifted the two scientific civs into the IA. One got Steam and the other Medicine. Unfortunately, since my rep was blown, I had to renegotiate peace in order to get the techs. I got a little happier though when I discovered that a city at RCP6 from my new palace could build the Iron Works. I haven’t had that in many a game!

End Game
There were three sneak attacks (two by Persia and one by Germany), after this war, but none of them amounted to anything. I had just over 50% of the map, and I didn’t feel inclined to take any more since my goal was space (and the game was taking a frighteningly long time as it was). I thought I was going to get a space victory before 1300ad, but I didn’t do very well on predicting the AIs research. Persia was researching every 5 turns early in the IA, and Germany every 8. However, they consistently picked the same tech to research that I did. Usually my AIs value Industrialization over Electricity, Replaceable Parts over Coorporation, Steel over Refining, etc. Not in this game! In the end, the only non-optional techs I got out of the AI were their two free IA techs (Steam and Medicine), Replaceable Parts and Mass Production. In the Modern Ages I got their two freebies (Computers and Ecology), and Synthetic Fibers. I was, however, able to delay building the Theory of Evolution until the turn I entered the Modern Age (1100 AD), so I got Fission and Miniaturization for my free techs. I was able to maintain 5 turn research for the latter half of the IA and the entire MA, with a few in 4 turns and 6 turns here and there.

I launched in 1335AD. Even though the Iron Works didn’t really play a significant role in the game, here is a screenshot of that city after the launch. I just love building the Iron Works.

[Shadows]

 

[Sabre]

Well that didn't take long! Great game BradleyFeanor.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Thanks Sabre. I was just putting together my post when I saw your "lurking in the shadows" comment , and I thought, yep, that's me.

I was reading through the thread, and I noticed something unusual about my game. I see that several people had to disconnect iron and/or saltpeter to build Mounted Warriors. In my game, Mounted Warriors were in the queue with Cavalry, so I never had to disconnect anything! I just built and upgraded them at will throughout the game. No resource disconnection required. This was my first time playing with the Iroquois in PTW as opposed to C3C, and I just assumed this was a really cool feature of the tribe. Maybe not.

 

[krisk]

Thanks Sabre. I was just putting together my post when I saw your "lurking in the shadows" comment , and I thought, yep, that's me.

I was reading through the thread, and I noticed something unusual about my game. I see that several people had to disconnect iron and/or saltpeter to build Mounted Warriors. In my game, Mounted Warriors were in the queue with Cavalry, so I never had to disconnect anything! I just built and upgraded them at will throughout the game. No resource disconnection required. This was my first time playing with the Iroquois in PTW as opposed to C3C, and I just assumed this was a really cool feature of the tribe. Maybe not.

I think that's because you delayed your Golden Age. You're always able to build your unique unit until you've triggerred your GA, so that you still have the opportunity to do so. Were you still able to build the Mounted Warriors after your GA?

In any case, this leads to an interesting strategy twist for civs with early unique units: If you're willing to delay a Golden Age, you can do the upgrade thing all game without having to dedicate 9 workers to sitting on a mountain and reroading it every turn.

 

[solenoozerec]

I think that's because you delayed your Golden Age. You're always able to build your unique unit until you've triggerred your GA, so that you still have the opportunity to do so. Were you still able to build the Mounted Warriors after your GA?

In any case, this leads to an interesting strategy twist for civs with early unique units: If you're willing to delay a Golden Age, you can do the upgrade thing all game without having to dedicate 9 workers to sitting on a mountain and reroading it every turn.

Waw. I was noticing that in some games I was able to build UUs after they were upgradable and in some not. I did not realize that this is because of GA.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Were you still able to build the Mounted Warriors after your GA?

In any case, this leads to an interesting strategy twist for civs with early unique units: If you're willing to delay a Golden Age, you can do the upgrade thing all game without having to dedicate 9 workers to sitting on a mountain and reroading it every turn.

I loaded up a save, and you are correct. I couldn't build MWs after my GA. This is very good to know!

 

[civ_steve]

If you elliminate an AI, and have alliances against that AI tied to GPT, does that destroy your rep?

Well, an alliance is a 20 turn deal; with or without gpt, finishing off the civ breaks the alliance. And it doesn't matter who does it, you or one of your allies, or even a different non-allied civ.

Interesting UU effect ... if you can hold back on using them! I'm too tired to post tonight; be back tomorrow.

 

[AlanH]

Now you say that AI should walk into my capital. Does it mean that my submission was invalid?

Not at all! If you suffered a conquest defeat then that's your result. I didn't know you could abandon your capital and then disband your settler to achieve the same effect. It's a quicker way to do it, and less painful I guess.

 

[krisk]

Interesting UU effect ... if you can hold back on using them!

I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I guess the effect is most interesting for the Egyptians, since their unique unit is the cheap 20-shield War Chariot. Playing with most civilizations I never get to build plain old chariots -- I seem to learn Horseback Riding before I've got horses even connected - and once that's learned there's no disconnecting strategy available to keep building chariots. But with the Egyptians this cheaper `underbuild' for upgrade to knight or cavalry can remain available for longer. By delaying the Golden Age, you get to build a unit that isn't available otherwise even with a resource-disconnecting strategy.

Then I wondered how good a chance a 2.1.2 unit would have against even a redlined infantry unit fortified in a city, for triggering that delayed GA when the time is right. But the odds aren't bad -- a veteran war chariot will have a 33% probability of victory against a redlined infantry unit fortified in a city on grassland. Not too bad at all.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Very impressive elevator

Not really. I said Fusion, I meant Fission!

Final score was 6185 in 2050, not sure if Histographic attempts still count, tried submitting anyway.

 

[a space oddity]

@'Leper: They do.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Well, an alliance is a 20 turn deal; with or without gpt, finishing off the civ breaks the alliance. And it doesn't matter who does it, you or one of your allies, or even a different non-allied civ.

It is fabulous that I still learn so much from playing GOTM and reading/posting to the threads. But the perplexing aspect is this: how in the {insert favorite expletive here} have I played civ hundreds of times without discovering something this important about war-time diplomacy? Thank goodness it didn't sink my game. 65 hours would have been a high price to learn that lesson!

Thanks Civ_Steve, and not just for the explaination. I have learned more about early space victories from your posts than from anywhere else, and they have definitely shaved many years off my finish dates.

In this game, I tried to park the AIs next to tasty techs like Industrialization, Replaceable Parts, etc., but this time they just wouldn't take the bait for some reason. I look forward to seeing how you manipulated them! (if you went for space)

 

[grahamiam]

Well, an alliance is a 20 turn deal; with or without gpt, finishing off the civ breaks the alliance. And it doesn't matter who does it, you or one of your allies, or even a different non-allied civ.

hmm, are you 100% sure of that? i seem to recall having MA's vs civs and killing them off before it ends without having a rep hit. you sure it couldn't have something to do with the gpt or resourse payment?

 

[MOTH]

hmm, are you 100% sure of that? i seem to recall having MA's vs civs and killing them off before it ends without having a rep hit. you sure it couldn't have something to do with the gpt or resourse payment?

In some stragegy/analysis thread it indicates that if you kill off the AI while you have active MAs then you take the rep hit. If your Ally kills off the AI then they take the rep hit and you are fine. I have not personally tried this and usually wait the 20 turns before finishing them off.

In a couple GOTMs I seem to end up with a bad rep by games end. In 37 I was unable to trade straight up gold, but was able to trade GPT - just add 1 (or 3000) G to any deal and I would get the "they will never accept this".

 

[civ_steve]

1.27f

I'm no authority on MA's; except for early on when I'm getting the AI to weaken each other, I tend to avoid them. In SGOTM4, our team had an alliance with Persia against India. We had had many trades with Persia, giving and getting Luxuries and Techs and they'd always been quite friendly. They took out the Indians with 1 turn left on the alliance, and came out of it being very Annoyed! I think its best to let 20 turn deals lapse naturally.

bradleyfeanor: I'm glad my posts on fast research tactics have been helpful! I hope to use your information on 20K game strategies to advantage some day. But not in this game!

And ... no space race either! I just couldn't resist putting some war paint on and trampling the AI a bit!

I waited until about 700 BC to get HorsebackRiding, trading Wines to Arabia for the Tech. I had 21 Vet Chariots and could upgrade almost all of them to MW's. I was already a Monarchy, and had been one since 975 BC.

I'm normally a pretty clean player, almost never breaking 20 turn deals. Not in this game! I DoW'd Carthage in 650 BC, breaking 2 Luxury deals he was getting from me, and took 3 cities on the first turn. My GA was on, and Salamanca was soon a 1 turn MW factory, 4 of my first tier cities were 2 turn MW factories, and a few more were in the 3 to 4 turns each category. I was expecting about 70 more MW's to be built in the next 20 turns!

Carthage's response was minimal; they were at war with Arabia so their offensive forces were diminished and on the other front. Oea was a problem; it took me 3 assaults to take it and clear Carthage from the Northern continent extension above Salamanca. Turns out Carthage was colonizing the NW coast near Germany and Rome; they had several Settlers and NumMercs in Oea, ready for transport, so it was a rough spot. After that I rolled through them, 1 city at a time, and I don't think there were any CF's. Carthage finished Sun-Tzu's for me, which was a real nice Wonder to have! I granted peace in 350 BC in exchange for Mono, Feud and Eng, leaving Hannibal with 2 East Coast cities, and 1 city near Rome.

Seemed a shame to have all those MW's in Carthage's core and no one to attack, so I DoW'd on Arabia. Khurasan fell on the first turn, and that was Abu's only source of Horses, so I only encountered 3 or 4 Ansar's during the campaign. There was a tough ring of Hills and Mountains to go through. I kept a constant pile of MW's moving towards Fustat, which was just on the other side of those Hills. Gradually I wore down Arabia, and on the 3rd Assault, Fustat fell and my MW's had open access towards Mecca. I wanted Chivalry, but Arabia wouldn't deal. So I captured Mecca, Damascus, and finally he gave me Chivalry in 90 BC; lots of Knights were immediately upgraded.


I also got my first GL, which rushed FP in Sabratha. My GA was over. I'd signed a ROP with India some time before thinking I could use it to take Gandhi out fast, but time was expiring on the ROP and I wouldn't be able to take advantage of it. Gandhi was looking pretty mad, so I gifted him 5 gpt; all of a sudden he's really happy looking. OK. Then Khurasan flips on me (10 BC), just a few turns after signing peace with the Arabs. No way am I going to allow them to start building Ansars, so I redeclare and start doing him in with my Knights.

I figure my rep is totally trash. I broke 2 deals with Carthage, I've just broken a peace deal with Arabia. The ROP expires with India, and he agrees to renew it!! (I might have thrown a Luxury in as well, and Gandhi and Joan had been going at it, so he might have been looking for a friend.)

So I finish the Arabs fairly quickly (170 AD), signing Peace when he had 1 city left for Theology, then immediately capturing it. The forces head South. I also do in the last 3 towns of Carthage, sending some Knights on Galleys to take out that last city near Rome. (110 AD) The forces congregate near India. I'm also still able to sign ROPs with everybody else (I've been quite dastardly; they must really be lonely!!) just before I launch my attack against India. I take 4 out of 6 cities on the first turn (and just missed taking those last 2). I sign peace leaving him 1 city, getting Education and Invention, then I take his last city (360 AD). I was quite in this game!

ROP is still active with France, and I do the same thing; 4 cities on first turn, get Joan down to 1 city, give peace for Astronomy and Gunpowder, then take her last city. (450 AD). I think there was 1 or 2 CF's with minimal casualties.

Persia was my obvious next target. I had kept building Galleys (along with MW's and Knights), and had a fleet of 16 ready to transport. Astronomy allowed me to cross in 1 turn instead of going up and around. However, this was a mistake (using pointy stick to get Education and Astronomy.) Amazingly, he renews a ROP with me!!! (I had to throw 2 Luxuries in, but still!) And I declare on Rome, and get him to ally for about 150 gpt. Just a few more deals to break; what's that to a non-repetant deal breaker and ROP raper!

We start transporting the troops over. I did a very silly thing; I'd gotten GL#2, Cornplanter, at the end of the French war. I forgot to armify him before transport! Here's this leader with a stack of Knights, and no way to form the army. Well not yet anyway. I took Persepolis and 2 other cities on first attack, and could finally form the army.

Now here's the drastic, terrible mistake I'd made. Persepolis had the Great Library. If I'd just taking the long path around, not taking Education and Astronomy, I could have taken two Persian cities that had Saltpeter and Horses, and the Great Library, and gotten lots of Techs, including Cavalry most likely, and been able to immediatly upgrade! Instead I got no Techs, and never even got Chemistry in this game, so I had Knights (and lots of them), but Persia had a few Cav as did Rome and Germany. Going past Persia would be tough.

Anyway, finished Persia off in 640 AD. I couldn't get a Tech from Xerxes, but I did get Ergili, the far off island town, which was key. For the remainder of the game I was checking MapStat every turn, rushing Temples, planting new cities to capture territory. Then I saw I was down in Population, so I started adding Workers to cities. I finally got Domination in 740 AD!! It was very close as this screen can attest to:

Mapstat shows I'm only 2 tiles and 1 pop point beyond Domination at the end of 730 AD!! There were maybe 5 or 6 spaces I could found a new city, getting me one more tile each; otherwise I'd have to take on Rome! And I was almost out of Workers.

Anyway, this was my first Firaxis score over 10,000; Jason was just a bit higher. And I've shaved about 10 turns off my best Domination win. I'll have to review WackenOpenAir's post closely for additional pointers. That was a real good game! And thanks, Ainwood, for an enjoyable run over type game! I'll try to play nicer next month!

 

[akots]

The game was very brutal indeed. Mine has been very similar to the one played by Wacken. Except that I was unable to RoP abuse. Not that I did not want, the AI has been constantly outsneaking me! After rapid initial expansion with messed RCP 3-4 (have not seen any single expansionist goody hut!) and fixing the choke point, it was a big hammer time. Higher predator aggression level of the AI was manifested in a few early outrageous demands which we bravely denied and helped with reversed war weariness to keep the citizens happy.

Then, all RCP 3 cities build temples, barracks, a few warriors for upgrade to macemen and then started on massive production of mounties. First vicitm was France which had Great Wall and Hanging Gardens but no iron, so they collapsed rather rapidly starting from about 600BC. Unfortunately, France had a settler in the boat parked near northern tip of Arabia which survived for almost a thousand years. French war gave me 2 leaders. First was used for Sun Tsu and second for Forbiddedn Palace in the ring 3 city near the capital.

Then, I decided to RoP abuse India. But next turn after making RoP deal, they declared war and tried to do to me the same thing I was going to do to them. Very smart indeed. Even though Ghandi had iron, he was not that powerful and collapsed within a few turns. Of course, with RoP abuse it could have been much faster. Indian war yielded another leader who was used to move Palace to Paris.

Carthage then was brutally treated with MWs and knights. The losses were heavy but production capacity was also great during Golden Age. All these 3 wars (France, India and Carthage) took less than 20 turns. In the end, total army included about 40-45 MWs-knights at about an equal ratio.

Arabia was next. Arabs had a great culture and all resources (iron, horses, and saltpeter) and decent number of musketmen defenders. The war was very brutal since when they declared on me, I was in the process of moving troops in their territory going to RoP abuse them. Well, no way they could have allowed that!

Arabian cities were very heavily defended and it took the efforts of 18 knights to capture Mecca defended by 6 or 7 veteran musketmen. Fortunately, most of them retreated. There were also a few painful flips but not that really many. Another leader emerged in the battles and was used for knight army. Arabia has been eliminated around 100AD or so, and then troops started immediate move back east to the choke which has been fiercely assaulted by Rome, Persia, and Germany sequentially over 4 thousand years.

My military at that time was about 40 knights and 30 MWs. Rome has been eliminated by Persia, so the choice was rather limited: attack Persia or Germany. Again, for the third time, I decided to get on Persia trying RoP abuse and failed again! Xerxes decleared war on the very same turn we made the RoP deal! So, I bought Bismark into an alliance (Germany surprisingly honestly stuck to the deal to the very end). So, the great Persian war started which continued for about 20 turns with many victories and losses because Xerxes already had cavalry and 3(!) sources each of saltpeter and iron. Coupled with the Deity level build rate and rather productive terrain, This resulted in insane numbers of defenders. IIRC, there were 12 musketmen + pikemen defending Susa! Even though the city was besieged by about 30 knights on the first turn, it could not be captured without reinforcements! That is a rather powerful opponent indeed!

With time, Persian resistance decreased. Three more leaders were generated in the Persian war (total 7 MGLs) used for Heroic Epic and 2 knight armies. In 470AD MapStat showed I'm 2 tiles from Domination. So, settlers were moved in position to claim these missing tiles and in-between turns, Persepolis flips back to Persia putting me again 2 or 3 tiles below the Domination limit! Finally, in 490AD, Persepolis is recpatured and Domination achieved (500AD) with a rather decent Jason's score but it was somewhat less than 12K. So, RoP abuse pays for itself. Don't know what I did wrong, I guess not much. But it worked nicely for Wacken and did not work for me. So, this gave a rather big difference in victory dates.

 

[Scipione]

I've played this game as a training, reloading and restarting several times, so of course I don't qualify for submission, but I'd like to ask some questions to the experienced players. I was very polite with France and India, even though they attacked me once (with no result). We exchanged techs and luxuries, but soon after I entered the MA nobody wanted to trade techs with me. I was very behind in science, but thought that with a winning campaign I could wrench some techs from the losing civ. I engaged a long war with the Persians and slowly started winning, but when I offered peace in exchange for techs, they refused. Tehy still kept refusing even when they were about to be wiped out. I had MPP with India and France, strongest in military, but the persian bastards still refused. The Persians even refused to talk when the had only a single city. Now Persia is destroyed, Arabia had to run away after an unsuccesful invasion and Rome i losing badly, but the don't give in to techs demand in exchange for peace. Now I am the first in score, land, production ecc, loads of luxury and good money,and still have MPP with India and France but they don't want to trade a single tech. Why?
Of course I'm very behind in techs.

 

[Tomoyo]

I noticed it too. In the Modern Age, I reduced Carthage (monster) to one city, and they still wouldn't give me Advanced Flight.