GOTM43 - Pre-Game Discussion.

What's "standard 5000 tiles" as far as world size goes?

A standard map is 100x100 (10,000 tiles), with 70% water meaning ~3,000 of those are land tiles.

So 5000 tiles is a slightly bigger map, if there's 70% water? In which case it's more likely a large map and 10 rivals is normal.
 
I think "100x100" ends up having 5000 tiles TOTAL, and 70% of THAT is water. I'm not sure, but I think that's how it works - because of the way the tiles are arranged, AxB ends up being (A*B)/2 tiles.
 
Xerol said:
I think "100x100" ends up having 5000 tiles TOTAL, and 70% of THAT is water. I'm not sure, but I think that's how it works - because of the way the tiles are arranged, AxB ends up being (A*B)/2 tiles.

D'oh - that does make some kind of sense!
 
I was thinking about the number of land tiles, too.
It´s my first deity-game and I´m wondering how many cities I´ll be able to build.

So if it´s 5000 tiles on the map, that makes 1500 land tiles: about 135 per civ. But wait - don´t deity-AIs get a bonus settler? In this case I´ll double their number. Dividing 1500 by 21, the Japanese should recieve about 71 land tiles in their expansion-phase, probably less if you take into account the occasional island.

As I´m definitly no deity, I´ll get even less for sure. So I don´t think I´ll build a granary, I´m expansionistically-pessimist...
btw, I´m also pessimistic in terms of survival...
 
mad-bax said:
Don't bother - it's not coded anything. I'm not that clever. An elite player can get the first tier techs for free essentially and less experienced players get stuffed with the Deity tech pace. That is all there is to it - nearly.

Yet I think it tells us smth. If we were on a separate island and were need to research everything ourselves, 4 techs would make a lot of difference.
Therefore, I conclude that we are not along and I guess that we have plenty neighbors.
 
Twonky said:
So I don´t think I´ll build a granary, I´m expansionistically-pessimist...
btw, I´m also pessimistic in terms of survival...

Then do you think that our first build should be barracks?
 
I will build 3 or 4 warriors to get to know the land before I decide anything. Then maybe a settler or a granary if we have room. If it looks tight I will get a barracks, but not before the first settler. We can see the horses so if any are close they should be grabbed. If I need to fight, I'll build up to the 8 unit support limit for two cities and hit somebody.
 
If I wanted to play a test game with plain old PTW, just to limber up, what would be the recommendation?

I was thinking Japan on an easier setting with 10 civs and the same world conditions on a random map (that has some easy lux and BG).
What early things should I try to do so I'm comfortable with strategy and Japan's Ancient Age strengths?

This would be the strategy I'd go with, until I learned more:
Tight RCP. Inner 3 or 4. Outer 6 or so.
Build several warriors to scout. One for MP.
Pop settler early.
Food rich cities build workers and settlers.
Shield rich cities build barracks then best offensive units.
Get to Literature and try for GL.
Monarchy until Samurai finish expanding the core by force. (When the Forbidden Palace is available, I'm half way there.)
Libraries or temples (depending) as the core grows.
Trade, trade, trade.
Hope for a great leader.
 
A few notes to maybe calm a few fears.

It's been my experience that a GOTM Diety isn't quite as hard as a random Diety game. The creators in the past have been kind enough to supply us with decent starting positions and from the opening screenshot Madbax has provided a very nice start.

Yeah, the AI gets a free Settler, but the AI is also inefficient in their builds. If you settle at the start and follow Kuningas' plan on page 1 (without the Warrior disband since I think others showed it is not necessary) you will have a 4-turn Settler factory. There is also lots of floodplains and a likely wheat to the south/southwest where you can build another town to crank out Settlers or Workers. To the north and east there are grass with plenty of shields allowing for good military production. As long as there aren't any AI right on top of us (and I don't know that Madbax is quite that evil) we should be able to carve out a nice core before the AI hems us in.

My plan: Build a few Warriors to locate the nearest AI and then get an early Worker and Settler out to get both food centers developed. Get my Granaries built and start pumping out the Settlers and Workers. Build Warrior/Worker/Barracks in all other towns followed by Warriors/Chariots or Horsemen depending on the location of Horses/Iron. Being Diety I'd think one of these will be relatively close.

Being a religious civ and wanting to get the advanced govt tile production as early as possible, I'll start researching on Mysticism and work to get Monarchy ASAP. I'll eventually switch to Republic but the 1-turn Anarchy isn't painful unless you are going 20k. Odds are, barring the eilte players, you will be behind in tech in the early going. Don't panic! Being a little behind isn't that bad. At least the techs are cheaper. Keep trying for techs that AIs don't like to research (Polytheism, Mathematics, Code of Laws are examples in the AA - with rivers at our start Mysticism is also likely) just one monopoly can be used to trade your way to tech parity. If you expand well, there is a lot of commerce in our start and you shouldn't fall too far behind.

Usually 20k is a fairly easy path but for Diety it is difficult for two reasons. First, the AI will beat you to a lot of Wonders - especially if you have trouble managing the fast tech pace at this level. Second, having a major city dedicated to Wonders means you are producing less units and expanding slower, making you a more desirable target for the AI. For an easier win in this game I'd suggest a Diplomatic win. Personally, I'm going to try for Conquest or Domination. I've been in a heavy builder mode lately and duking it out with the Diety armies will be a nice change of pace.

Basically, my advice for the nervous: Focus on expanding your core, don't go crazy on the Spears, build Barracks (not in your food centers!) and lots of cheap offensive military. If you must, get a prebuild going for the Great Library but it may be a better learning experience to try and keep up in tech on your own. Effective trading is an important skill in improving your game even for lower difficulty levels.

Finally - it's just a game! Tis better to have tried and failed then to have slunk off into sunset. Give it a shot and you might be surprised how well you can do. :)
 
Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).
 
Also, don't forget, I'm pretty sure we are monopoly wheel. Don't trade away the monopoly until you have 2-4 trading partners. Keeping up in trade is all about contacts so get snooping for everyone right out of the gate.
 
Seraphinus said:
Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).

I'm sure the file will be given on the save download page when it is posted, but if you'd like to get it now I'm pretty sure it's the same file we've been using for the SGOTM which can be found on this page.
 
Seraphinus said:
Sorry to bring the question again. Where can we find this *.pcx files for new resources for PTW? I didn't find the link to the file on the page AlanH mentioned (I hope that it was AlanH).

I only supplemented a post about where to find the *descriptions* of the extra resources by giving a link to a thread showing some *pictures* of the resources. See post #33 in this thread.

M-B has said I might try to produce an installer to make it easier to install the scenario files. I'm not too keen on doing so, as I have no way to test it and very little time between now and game release on 15th to fix it if I get it wrong. So I prefer to provide a link to a .zip file you can download, place in your PtW Scenarios folder and double click. I was going to provide that link on the game intro page on the GOTM web site. I *could* post it here now, but it wouldn't help much because you will not be able to confirm that you have installed it correctly until the start file is released.
 
Arrrr, this one looks exciting. I don't have much to add. Settling in place and researching mysticism first, gunning toward Monarchy seems the way to go for me. Do my homework so that I don't bobble the 4-turn settler factory opportunity. I'm betting all my chips that we're not alone, and can contact several civs pretty quickly- top priority really. It would be nice to be able to punch somebody right as writing comes out, to gain a few early cities, take a chance at an early leader, and get the AI fighting each other ASAP. Anyone else feel like taking a swipe at someone in the AA?
 
Markus5 said:
Tight RCP. Inner 3 or 4. Outer 6 or so.

I wish there will be an outer ring.

@Sabre - even a good start during previous deity (GOTM37, I think) and being in the first 20 of global rating combined with expansionist trait and a very good earlier UU did not help me to win.
Though I had a good chance for a highest scoring looser (got 2nd).

In this game,
1. we do not have as good start as in GOTM37
2. we do not have earlier UU, we need to research chivalry.
3. we are not expansionist
4. In my opinion UU sucks. It cost, attack and moves as normal knight, its slight defensive bonus is useles.
5. We have more AI civs, so that ratio of human units/settlers per AI units/settlers is much smaller compared to GOTM37
6. We are on continents, not pangaea, which means that we probably will need to find a way to get to another continent, by that time AI on that continent will have railroads.
7. The only advantage is The Wheel indeed. But I do not see any horses :aargh:

Why should I be optimistic about this game?

I am really frightened by this game.

It actually makes me thrilled, I probably will try for highest scoring looser again :spear:
 
Jove said:
Anyone else feel like taking a swipe at someone in the AA?

Taking a risk "all or nothing" is something that I am considering right now. However, I am afraid that I will not have guts to attack deity AI in AA after I start the game. Though we will see, I certainly would not do this against AI who knows BW.
It is also possible that exterminating one AI civ earlier will help other AIs to develop and become scarier. So may be it is wise to play a mouse until chivalry.
I do not know: hmm:
 
Once you've got a couple spears built, a random early DOW on a neighbor is great for pointy stick expansion. Its always great to watch the AI warriors suicide on your hilltop capital, and then have your opponent give you one of their "free" extra cities for nothing. Slower expansion for yourself and your opponent is the tradeoff, allowing the others to surge ahead. We'll have to see how many people start on the home continent. Could there be 3 or 4 continents in the game?

This game will cause us to make a number of crucial tactical decisions in the 2000 BC range.
 
I'm not so sure the extra defense for the Samurai will be useless in this game. The Diety AI will be able to counterattack pretty fiercely and having a mobile 3-defender will help build up overwhelming numbers faster. It's also timed for a nice Golden Age which will help crank out more Samurai and help keep up in tech during the tough early half - getting me to Military Tradition quicker. For a lesser difficulty level you are right that the extra defense doesn't really help as much as an extra offense or move would as the counterattack isn't bad.

GOTM 37 was a lot of fun and you are right, that was a nice start. I think this one looks just as good so far though. You actually played a pretty good game that month with only a bad break with Persia preventing you from getting a Domination victory @1200ad. Not too shabby. I think everyone is at risk of losing a Diety game. But it's also quite possible for a lot of people to win given a nice starting area.

Jove - An early attack to deny Iron or Horses from a neighbor would be nice and if you can get an ally to help, you could really gain some ground.
 
Yes, I agree, a defense point is not useless. It is just I probably would prefer them being cheaper or faster.

As for the attitude towards this game, I think I simply would prefer to overestimate its difficulty than to underestimate. I think that the smell of fear in the air is healthy for this pregame discussion :evil:

As for my GOTM37 performance, a major lesson that I learnt is importance of keeping a force balance among AIs. It is better to have two strong civs than one, because they could fight against each other. My mistake was that I did not do enough diplomacy to keep Persians from destroying others.

And here comes another concern about this particular game. What if by the time we find a second continent, there will be only one civilization?
 
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