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Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by gozpel, May 13, 2006.

  1. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I agree we need to rethink our placement. We may want to figure out a spot to lock up the horses.

    IMO buying workers early game is very destructive to the AI and costs no unit support long term. Native workers can be joined into cities later. The tech situation will not improve anytime soon but we'll need some pointy stick for that. This map is huge so fighting a faraway civ could result in some techs.
     
  2. Pentium

    Pentium Digital Matter

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    It's not that easy to get techs from a faraway civ unless they send tons of units at you. For that matter, I'd rather fight England. They were the weakest and last in tech during my turns, so we'd also have the least difficulties with them.

    A couple of Swords would probably be enough to take that town, and if we survive their first blow we could get some techs in return. But this would have to be done fast, as we need both space for our city and techs.

    An alternative is in fact building a city somewhere else, probably near that horses, but I like the war option better. I played a quick game today, that was more of a test than a game, and again I learned that it's not hard to capture a couple of towns, even on Deity. Of course England having no iron would help a lot, we better check it soon.
     
  3. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    The AI enters MA 1350BC? :eek: That's fast and we're so behind it will be some tactics to get close.

    Slave workers are very useful in the long run, but I wonder if gpt was the right strategy to get them? Time will tell, at least we have some free of expense units.

    Those stacks of barbhorses area pain, and they screw up our plans and further slow us down. Why didn't those silly AI's sack that camp.

    Oxford was unlucky and we have a city there now, so a few swords will have to take care of that and then we cross our fingers that we can sue for peace soon enough.
     
  4. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    I'll see if I can muster up a few swords to do the job. This should be interesting. Will play tomorrow.
     
  5. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    We did ask for restless barbs - not roaming (roaming would be too easy?)
    I'm guessing that relocation of the city is not an option then?
    If the war is coming then another statement of obvious: we'll need a few defenders.
     
  6. Andronicus

    Andronicus Emperor

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    @ zerksees
    yes Nampo is a risk
    Oxford is sufficiently far from English capital and hopefully corrupt enough that we should win a cultural war with them - esp if we use some chops. It may even work out better to get lib first depending on when that comes in.
    Military war is the bigger risk I think. At least we can build swords.
    Apologies for not stopping and discussing alternatives when we got beat there :blush:
     
  7. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    I agree 100%, which I why I think we should move the city. This could also be considered "aggressive" settling by the AI and force the English to declare. (I have not seen any studies that show this aggressive settling causes war but I sure have seen it in games I have played).

    Maybe I am overly worried about it. If the aggressive settle/war approach works on a deity 5CC, then I learn a new way to play the game.

    Whatever gozpel decides is fine with me.
     
  8. Andronicus

    Andronicus Emperor

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    Whilst in retrospect I believe I ought to have sought the teams opinion regarding the site of our 5th city, I remain of the opinion that its chosen position is best.
    A site to grab the horses is nowhere near as strong and considerably more corrupt.
    I believe we can win control of the tiles Nampo reqires culturally. We need a strong 5th site and this provides the shields with plenty of commerce high river sites. It is a risk we may get dow-ed early and a risk we may lose an early war. If we survive the medium term we will be in a far stronger position in the current site.
    Deity 5CC is a risk to start with
     
  9. Pentium

    Pentium Digital Matter

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    They're commercial, and on Deity AI corruption is lower than ours and their production is much higher. We can get that two tiles with a rushed/chopped temple, but they're going to build a Coloseum and a Cathedral very soon, and we won't want to keep up with that. A small attack force would be cheaper and more benefitial. They would have to cross the mountains in order to get to our lands, and by that time we could have a defensive force ready as well.
     
  10. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    Well, here's the situation. The two granaries in current build can be switched to rax. The one in Pyong could complete on the IT with the loss of only one shield. We currently have no swords. None. England is to our west, and it would take them a bit to send someone out. I could have a handful of vet swords by turn 5-7 or so (I haven't done the math), but it's really the counterstike that's going to be a b**ch. The one good thing is that Liz doesn't have iron. She has horses, but no iron. Before I commit to switching out our grans and rolling the dice, I'd like to feel sure we have a consensus. Personally, I favor taking out Oxford early. It will almost surely never flip to us, and it's a big hole in our territory.
     
  11. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Even if it flips to us, we can't take it. Only 5 cities ever, no more for even a second.

    So I think we have to try the pointy stick, take out Oxford and then hopefully we'll be able to sue for peace. It's tricky, but I can't see us move to another spot where we lose much in corruption and meanwhile Oxford grows strong.

    So swap those granaries to barracks.

    I think we have a good chance of sorting this out, if not we can always roll a new map. :lol:
     
  12. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    All right then. War it is. I have one goal during this turnset -- kill Oxford and live to profit from it.

    Preturn Switch Pyong and Rojo to rax. Not enough pop in Rojo to rush it yet. Not much else to do.

    IBT The barb horses near Pyong ride away again (short attention spans, I guess). :) And 13 more come out of the fog near Oxford. :(

    Turn 1 (1225BC) Rax complete in Pyong and is set to chunk out swords. Seol pops out a worker and is set to rax. Set the new worker to help with irrigating to BB. We meet Babylon. No trades available. Warriors out in the field clear some more black.

    IBT The road connecting gems comes in, so we can grow a city to size 4 now. Babs asks us to stop trespassing. Hiawatha starts on the Hanging Gardens. As does Brennus.

    Turn 2 (1200BC) The barb horses stayed put during IT, so our workers are safe to keep digging ditches. Start the two slaves up by Nampo to chop a forest to hurry along the temple there., covered by a warrior.

    IBT Liz sends a warrior out of Oxford to take on the barb horse stack. If she keeps dedicating Oxford to this purpose, our job will be much easier. Germany gives us the boot. Probably not a good idea to demand his spearman take a hike. The barbs end up leaving Liz's boy alone and head out to make barbeque of our workers.

    Turn 3 (1175BC) Time to make our lad with the shovels less tempting. Move them out of the way, back to Seoul to irrigate and to BB to do something useful, I'm not sure what, maybe mine a hill or something.

    IBT Should I even keep track of how many times our scouting warriors get booted? It's a lot. Barbs lose interest and half ride off to harrass Liz again, the other group maybe to take the long way around to get our guys at BB. Iroq start SoZ, Germans start HG, as does Abe, and Theodora gets herself the Great Lighthouse. Byz with GL, hmmm ... Not good, but not our problem right now.

    Turn 4 (1150BC) Worker moves and busting black.

    IBT Liz would like our treasury, please. It's not time yet, so I hand over all 15g. Lots of wonderbuilding going on.

    Turn 5 (1125BC) :sleep:

    IBT Not much.

    Turn 6 (1100BC) Shift some workers out of the way again. These barbs annoy me.

    IBT :sleep:

    Turn 7 (1075BC) Our first sword heads off to BB first to kill some horses and get up to elite.

    IBT Well, my theory that barbs won't attack a garrisoned city is so not true. They do. Our warrior dies on the first attack :mad: and the rest of the stack pillages our entire treasury, kills two workers hiding there, and destroys the work on the temple. In the meantime, one regular Iroq warrior outside our border successfully defends against 7 horses before going down. Some days the RNG is not so nice.

    Turn 8 (1050BC) Move our surviving workers to improve stuff around Seoul, covered by our sword.

    IBT Celts, Russia, Germany, America, and Aztecs all have Literature now. I'm guessing that it'll have trade value with the lesser civs.

    Turn 9 (1025BC) Turn our new citizen in Seoul to a tax collector for one turn. Our gpt deals expire next turn, and we can afford some happy juice then if we like.

    IBT Barb horses kill our one sword. On the first attack. :wallbash: This is so not funny. Liz has some warriors moving through our territory, but I'm not sure what their intentions are.

    Turn 10 (1000BC) Busting black, mostly. We still have one more civ to meet. Nampo can pop-rush its temple next turn. Oxford has had its first culture expansion, so I took one slave off of improving what is now an English tile. There are still 3 barb horses outside of BB -- look for them to do some pillaging on the IT.

    A less than impressive turnset, I must say. I got us one sword, which I then killed, and lost us two workers plus our treasury. This is gonna be a tough one. On the plus side, we now have three rax cities.

    No pic, as not much has changed. This is the >>SAVE<<.
     
  13. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    lurker's comment: In higher levels, where the AI gets lots of extra units, they will send those units to hunt out barb camps, because the AI is stupid like that.:scan: :p Just remember to not tempt the AI units.
     
  14. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    It only took me a few times last game to get this. Not surprised, but should have realized that culture flips would be included. Too bad they don't offer "we don't want it raze the city" on a culture flip.

    I am predicting some serious catch up on the tech tree in gozpel's next turnset. :)
     
  15. Pentium

    Pentium Digital Matter

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    That's great, now just eait until each of them builds a Sword and we'll have an invasion force.
    By the means of ... :hmm:

    BTW, Good luck Gozpel! :)
     
  16. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    I suggest putting out a few veteran spears to keep the barbs (and English) out of our cities too. If we get lucky we might get peace before the bulk of their force shows up but any horsemen will likely get a chance to hit us.

    If I knew I would tell you. If I learned anything in the last game I played with gozpel - it is that he will find a way to catch up in tech.

    Oh yeah - and never more than 5 cities - ever :nono:
     
  17. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Hehe, I don't think I can find any ways to trade yet, not until we have roads or other means to trade away our not yet connected resources and second gem.

    Tough luck with the barbs SM.

    Got it and will probably need a couple of days to play.
     
  18. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    Good luck Goz.

    Just a fyi I will be away tomorrow through Sunday.
     
  19. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Sorry for taking so long, it has been very busy here.

    Pre-turn - MM a couple of cities to produce food, we need to grow as fast as possible. Wang is mining the iron, send him to do some irrigation instead.

    We're building swords as according to our plans.

    See that Lit is already known, can't get it for anything but huge gpt. We're owing England 5gpt for another 4 turns and Iroquois get 6gpt for 7 turns.

    Warrior kill 1hp barbhorse, luxtax to 20%.

    975BC - Frigging BH kills our warrior.

    Heaps of Civs starts GLiB and the celts finish the Great Wall.

    Whip temple in Nampo, darn English built Leeds by the coast and encrouch on us even more. We simply have to try for it and build a small military force and get rid of those towns. It will take a while though.

    950BC - Hiawatha boot our scouting warriors and then starts HG. France starts SoZ.

    Seoul sword -> another.
    Nampo temple -> barracks.

    925BC - Pyong sword -> worker.

    900BC - England and Iroquois warriors take care of the last 2 visible barbhorses, thank you very much.

    We now have 18gpt with luxtax turned off, but we can't get CoL for that. We still have to meet Byz and Hittites. Start researching Lit again on 40%, we'll need those libraries.

    875BC - Pyong worker -> spear. The worker will chop the second gameforest towards another sword after that. Or do we want that granary there? Have to think about that.

    France completes SoZ.

    Pyong gets its second border-expansion.

    850BC - Seoul sword -> sword.

    Nampo's borders expands and we have control of the second iron, but Lizzy keeps the river-tile with BG.

    825BC - Iroquois completes HG.

    Drats, just when we got the rest of our gpt, Lizzy learnt CoL, so no twofers possible. Up science to 60%, Lit in 9t.

    800BC - Hiawatha starts Sun Tzu.

    Pyong is swapped to granary to help us grow quicker.

    775BC - More civs are building Sun Tzu.

    750BC - Aztecs completes the GLiB! Of course it had to be a Civ far away.

    We can buy Lit from France for 4gpt and some change, I suggest we do so as it will save us 5 turns of research.

    We have 5 swords in Seoul, but nothing else. I think we should build a few more swords, then a couple of spears to add to our lousy defense.

    We have to get rid of those english towns around Nampo, then defend for our lives. If it doesn't work, we can probably kiss this game goodbye.

    But if we succeed and can get peace soon, we have to build libraries. Seoul needs a temple as well.

    Our curragh spots some borders:

     

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  20. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Got it. How can we get someone else to make war with England?
     

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