Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race

[Bucephalus]

Speaking of options, there is a third possibility that fits my plan.

If I can trigger our GA, we can self research Physics without renewing our alliance with Germany. There is no reason why we cannot stay at war with England still, only giving peace once we have Physics; this would have the advantage of not being committed to twenty more turns of war.

 

[Bucephalus]

Interestingly enough, the Celts would offer their gpt but would not give any gold lump sum in the deal for iron. The Germans would not accept gpt from us but would take lump sum gold for the furs (before I planted the colony). I'm not sure our rep is clean yet. MA's and peace treaty negotiations will be the best way to help repair this.

Yeah, it's a question of credit-worthiness; they will not give 'hard' goods for credit, only for 'hard' cash.

Somehow we need some of the titans (Germany, Aztecs and Iroquois) to get into a tussle. Iroquois have 50k+ gold.

The way that alliances keep chopping and changing it may happen soon enough; if we have to engineer it, we must be very careful to pick the right side, ie someone who is physically between us and our enemy.

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre-turn:

Cannot short-rush in the Capital as we only have three gold;
mm Nampo for growth. With an extra citizen we can make 10 shields, giving us a H'watcha every three turns;
Wake two H'watcha's near the coast, and send them towards Reading;
Current state of affairs is that England would give Physics for Peace only if we gave 20gpt.

Enter:

Hittites request an audience. I agree, just to see how many cities they have (5);
Xmas comes early! A yellow-lined English Cavalry attacks our MI, and retreats red-lined - crucially, it is next to out stack of H'watcha's;
Aztecs would like an alliance against Babylon, but they only offer peanuts per turn; I politely decline;
Germany and America MA Celts;
German Cavalry enters territory on the way to Reading - too late to thwart my plans.

960 AD:

First H'wacha bombards English Cavalry and........We have our GA!
Raise Science slider to 70%, and we will have Physics in 6 with +25gpt;
Workers at Nampo finish roading, begin roading to Reading to facilitate movement of units back to Korea, should we need to do so in a hurry.
Move H'wacha stack on to hill in Reading territory; move Cav to begin blockade.
Our Rep is still rubbish, Germany (who are gracious) would only sell 100g for 65gpt!
Upgrade 1 Cav.

IBT:

Russia wants us to pay for a MPP; politely refuse;


970 AD:

Nampo builds H'wacha > H'wacha;
Seoul builds Cav > Cav:
Pyong builda Cav > Cav;
BB builds Cav > Cav;
Move blockade in to position around Reading; pound with Arty, and see it has just 2 defenders (muskets)
Move more Cavalry to put the squeeze on Reading.
England would now give Physics for Peace.

IBT:

We lose our Iroquois dyes; I renegotiate for 12gpt.
Germans turn-back;

980 AD:

Arty pounds 3 MoW's and a Galleon outside Reading.

IBT:

3 more MoW and a Galleon show up outside Reading; damaged shipping enters Reading for repairs;

990 AD:

Move more Arty in to place outside Reading; do not bombard this turn as the ships will take all the hits.
Workers finish road to Reading; another stack to mine mountain at Pyong, as we are wasting food there.

IBT:

Ships leave Reading;
Germany seems to have run out of steam, as England take back Warwick;

1000 AD:

Seoul builds Cav > Cav;
Pyong builds Cav > Cav;
Nampo builds H'wacha > Hwacha;
Pound Reading; there are now 2 Cav within; since the Muskets are damaged, the Cav are the' best' defenders. Decide to attack, successfully killing both Cavs; for good measure I also kill 1 Musket, leaving them just 1 defender. I'm trying to turn the screw.
England would now give Physics and Chivalry.

IBT:

Our alliance with Germany against the Hittites expires; worryingly, despite us being just one turn from Physics they will not renew the
deal with Physics on their side, for gpt and Gems. They will "never accept this deal";
Iroquois offer 100 gpt for MPP & ROP: I so reluctantly refuse.

1010 AD:

Bombard Reading, kill Musket; now defended only by a Spear;

IBT:

Celts/ Babylon sign Peace;
Trade Embargo between Russia/ Hittites ends;

1020 AD:

We learn Physics;
England would give ToG and Magnetism for 120gpt + Peace; still allied with Germany so switch research to Magnetism (6);
We cannot get a gpt with an Alliance, for any amount of money;
Bombard last defender out of Reading;

IBT:

Germany/ Hittites sign Peace;London & Warwick fall to the Germans;
New Spear in Reading;

1030 AD:

Seoul builds Cav > Cav;
Pyong builds Cav > Cav;
Nampo builds H'wacha;
Bombard Reading, killing new Spear - it is again defenceless; with luck it will soon be the Capital.

IBT:

Our Silks deal runs out with Celts; they will not renew it, even for 200gpt;
But they will accept Gems and 6gpt, so I make the deal.


1040 AD:

Upgrade Horse to Cav;

IBT:

Babylon builds Larsa uncomfortably close to our Salt;
Germany/ Babylon MA England;
We lose our supply of Wines; renegotiate for 15gpt;

1050 AD:

Our Alliance with Germany against England is over, and we lose our Horses; I renegotiate for 15gpt;
Give Peace + 8 gpt to England for ToG;

End turn notes:

We are three turns away from Magnetism and our free Ind Age tech;
England will soon lose their only remaining city (besides Reading) so I have continued our blockade; there is every opportunity to
continue to bully them for techs every 20 turns, although they are now vulnerable to seaborne landings. I tried to get a ROP with them to guard against this, but no dice.
We have 11 turns of our GA left;
We are still at War with Hittites, but there is no good reason not to make Peace - they have nothing to give, but no-one will pay us for an Alliance;
Iroquois are attacking Orenburg (Russia); if it falls we will capture Russian Horses when BB has a cultural expansion in 12 turns;

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Goz12_1050_AD_Buce.SAV

 

[Whomp]

Great set Buce. Things are sounding a lot more interesting. It sounds like we kept that tenous furs colony.

 

[Bucephalus]

Great set Buce. Things are sounding a lot more interesting. It sounds like we kept that tenous furs colony.

Thanks, Whomp.

Yeah, we'll keep them until the nearby city has a cultural expansion.

 

[zerksees]

Looks great. We can kill anything with Hwachas right? Makes me want to make more war. Any thoughts about wrecking that Babylonian city - It will be fine until the first culture expansion. Then it has to go.

 

[Bucephalus]

Looks great. We can kill anything with Hwachas right? Makes me want to make more war.

Well, they certainly killed everything that got in my way

I think they would miss more often against units with a higher defence value, if I understand correctly how Arty works, so we'd need a lot more than Industrial Age Arty to ensure their effectiveness. Actually, a combination of the two would work best; red-line them with the modern stuff, then kill them with H'wacha's.

Any thoughts about wrecking that Babylonian city - It will be fine until the first culture expansion. Then it has to go.

It's a long way from home, so unless it rushes some culture we're OK for a while; Also, Babs are in bed with the Germans currently, but you know how quickly these things change; I've lost track of who is fighting who but it would be vulnerable to Germany, Iroquois - and to a lesser extent - Russia.

Russia though could be the next lame duck as they are at war with Iroquois; as I said in my turnlog, there is every likelihood that we will have their Horses in 12 turns when BB exands it's borders.

 

[Bucephalus]

There are a couple of things I'd like clarification on.

Firstly, Nampo has 700+ culture, has expanded it's borders twice, yet it has no cultural buildings. How come? (incidently, it really could do with some 'happiness' buildings once we can spare the shields; WW was becoming a problem there).

Secondly, when one of you has the time, could you give me a masterclass on 'short-rushing'? I understand the basic principle but I have an uneasy feeling that my understanding is incomplete.

 

[zerksees]

Looked at the save last night. I was curious how long it would take for Nampo to expand again to ensure we keep the salt, and I noticed all our culture buildings in Nampo are gone! No temple, library, catehdral, university or colosseum. (I just noticed Bucephalus had the same observation)

If we did not lose it to the English for a turn then I wonder if there is some kind of bug? Can you check the intermediate saves?

I reread the turn logs but did not see anything.

It is not the end of the world but I will be changing the builds to put that infrastructure back.

I am now leaning toward war with Russia as they have only 11 cities, no saltpeter, and whacking one will net us another resource to sell (and we have no deals with them at the moment).

 

[Bucephalus]

Looked at the save last night. I was curious how long it would take for Nampo to expand again to ensure we keep the salt, and I noticed all our culture buildings in Nampo are gone! No temple, library, catehdral, university or colosseum. (I just noticed Bucephalus had the same observation)

If we did not lose it to the English for a turn then I wonder if there is some kind of bug? Can you check the intermediate saves?

Whatever happened, it happened between the end of my first turnset and the beginning of the one just played. I'll d/load your's and Whomp's last saves when I get a moment, to narrow it down further.

 

[Bucephalus]

I've narrowed it down to Whomp's last turnset. At the end of your last turnset, we had everything except a University, which was due in two turns.
At the end of Whomp's turns, all culture buildings had gone.

That's the nearest we can get unless Whomp has any mid-turn saves.

 

[Whomp]

It's my fault. I had a cav walk into Nampo and it sounds like it destroyed all the buildings. I thought I posted that but I didn't. Sorry for not being clear on that loss.

 

[Bucephalus]

It's my fault. I had a cav walk into Nampo and it sounds like it destroyed all the buildings. I thought I posted that but I didn't. Sorry for not being clear on that loss.

No worries; we can get them all back soon enough.

 

[zerksees]

It's my fault. I had a cav walk into Nampo and it sounds like it destroyed all the buildings.

Just the culture buildings. Yes that is the bad effect of losing a city for a turn. We can rebuild it. I'll start with the library, then temple.

It is better that we did it than a game malfunction. I have built brand new cities where the citizens "could not stand the cruel oppression borne upon them". I sometimes think there are some bugs in the way the game handles the table that stores all the city info.

 

[Bucephalus]

Just the culture buildings. Yes that is the bad effect of losing a city for a turn. We can rebuild it. I'll start with the library, then temple.

Since we have the shield/ commerce boost of our GA, wouldn't it make more sense to build a University after the Library, especially as WW is no longer an immediate problem?

 

[zerksees]

Here's my thoughts:
Get the library asap to help multiply science in the golden age.
Get the temple to get rid of the entertainer (I hate to raise the lux for just one city).
The review and decide if uni or cathedral is next. If the people are unhappy the cathedral would be next, else uni.

 

[Bucephalus]

Here's my thoughts:
Get the library asap to help multiply science in the golden age.
Get the temple to get rid of the entertainer (I hate to raise the lux for just one city).
The review and decide if uni or cathedral is next. If the people are unhappy the cathedral would be next, else uni.

I was under the impression that the entertainer was no longer needed since the war ended; however, even if it is, surely that wouldn't cause us to raise the lux slider? And since we are self researching, wouldn't a Uni make more of a difference than working one extra tile? Also, the extra shields produced during a GA would build the Uni much faster than it would once it is over.
That said, a temple will only take a couple of turns. But you're in the driving seat, so it's your call.

Edit: I've just looked at the save, and my suspicions were correct. I made Peace with England at the end of my turns, and didn't mm Nampo; the clown is no longer needed, we can have a Library in 1 turn, and if the clown works the Iron we can generate 18 shields per turn towards a Uni, which would be almost finished by the end of our GA.

 

[zerksees]

OK. Did not try to MM Nampo last night - just assumed it was set up (mostly freaked about missing culture buildings). Will do lib -> uni -> temple then the next guy can decide about cath -> colosseum.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK. Did not try to MM Nampo last night - just assumed it was set up

Sorry, my mistake, not yours.

 

[zerksees]

Turnlog:

Pre-flight:

* Notice that we lost all our culture buildings in Nampo. Switch to library which is due in 1 turn. Change Pyong to musket
* We are still stuck at 3 gold for 1 gpt.
* America has 3 cities, England has 2 cities. Byz have 9 and Hittites 5. Somehow these meek 2nd tier civs are going to help us catch up in tech
* Upgrade 1 treb to Hwacha for 30 gold
* I think I’ll will wait a while to go after Babylon. Russia also looks like a good target.
* MM Nampo for more food to get it to size 12
* Love that golden age thank you very much

IBT
Notice Iroquois and Russia have ROP
Seoul: cav -> musket
Pyong: cav -> Hwacha
Nampo: library -> university. With some MM it will be done in 5 turn
Iro building Hoover Dam

Turn 1: 1060 AD
England still has 2 cities
Notice Germany and Iro are aligned vs. Russia. Russia is our next victim
Magnetism in 2
Notice Hittites have chivalry. Trade theology for chivalry (cheap backup if we lose salt) Hittites are just annoyed with us. Maybe we can get something for a DOW on them later down the road
Moving war units southeast, working to bring in pikeman from fur colony for upgrade, moving army east and put cav on the mountain to defend our salt.

IBT
Celts and Germans make peace
Hittites and Iro MA vs Russia
Rojo: military academy -> musket

Turn 2: 1070 AD
No change in city counts of “the meek” AI
Iro are sending a settler up north. Change our 5 unit blockade to block the free space as well as English city.
Probe into Russian territory and see that Orenburg is defended by an unfortified regular rifle. Looks tempting. A lot of Iro units have been heading up that way – the city must be weakly defended. Move cavs to the border, Hwachas not going to make it.

IBT
Turn 3: 1080 AD
Pyong: Hwacha -> cav
Germans DOW Celts
Aztecs building Hoover Dam

Turn 3: 1080 AD
Our free tech is nationalism. The English do not have it. However I am unable to make a trade with them for medicine or steam power as we do not have enough gold. Cut science to 0% to build gold – we are at +332 gpt atm.
Start lone scientist on communism. This tech and ironclads are going to help us catch up.
Germans are almost will to give us 4 gold for 1 gpt. So I make a deal for 3 gold paying 1 gpt.

Russia has a rifle in our territory. I issue remove or declare ultimatum. She declares. Use three cavs to defeat a regular and conscript rifle and Orenburg is razed. One cav is redline and one promoted to elite. Two free workers [2-0]
Use longbow, Hwacha and cav to take out the invading rifelman, costing us the longbow [3-1]
Whoa – Hittites have 246 gold. Sell them theology for 246 gold
Also notice Byzantines lack steam power. Argh we need to buy it so we can get medicine from them.

IBT
Iroquois and Russia make peace (this could be bad)
Byz and Celts make peace
Seoul: rifle -> rifle
Bouncing Bucket: rifle -> hwacha
No Russian units invade or attack us

Turn 4: 1090 AD
We have 703 gold and can’t quite afford medicine from England. Steam Power out of the question. We need more gold to buy steam.
Elizabeth is enjoying her new capital in Reading
Our army is pillaging and exploring in Russia. There is a size 12 city E/SE of Orenburg ruins, and a size 1 N/E-ish of the ruins. Hwachas are getting closer so I have to decide which to go after. I like the size 12 to get us some more slave workers. Also hoping Catherine will talk after 5-6 turns to crank up our pointy stick research.

This is the end of my first session for the turnset.