Catapults aren't worth upgrading. I once calculated it. Unless you are going all the way to artillery it is a huge expense for a few more hits.
GR23 - AWDG vs 30 Civs
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
New flash for those that cannot wait. We are in the industrial age now.
1405AD (1):
Too many cities.
knight kills Chinese LB and goes elite. I turned animate battles as it just freaks me out to not see the battle (1-0).
It looks like we have no blocks anywhere now. It also looks like there is land connections on all sides. We have no or maybe a few bombardment units on the old Seoul parcels. We could have too many units to contain with all those mountains. Muskets and Sami's are not a lot of fun for knights at full health.
3/5 knight kills zerk (2-0).
Fix a couple of town about to riot. Tromso was one and it was +2 food and building a granary? Anyway it needs irrigation to grow and will need lux. Anyone seen a 4th one on this continent?
knight kills Inca musket (3-0).
5/5 MDI kills one to clear Auditorium (4-0).
set block across west side of Auditorium. This will cause units to go around towards Praetoranium. I do not want that, but I have to start somewhere.
I bite the bullet and switch all scientist to tax, except one. Now making 508gpt. What a pain.
We have 14 legion armies all 4x. We have 7 knight armies, 16th is 3x.
knight kills Byz spear (5-0).
I can make a block on the Praetoranium side, but that means no cities can be attack other than the knight armies. I am not sure if I need to do that or can we handle what will come that way?
Not many opportunities for leaders as I see few elites and few chances to use non army units.
11th kills Bab musket no problem and then struggles with Byz pike (7-0).
IBT:
English and Chinese turn around at block.
Japan attacks Byz pike and dies, then another unit killed the pike.
Not sure if Kyoto added units or not. I saw a couple go in and at least one leave.
1410AD (2):
We have a number of cats and units along the coast, not sure what has happen in those areas, so I leave them alone.
TOO MANY CITIES.
21st kills English LB as I was blocked on way to Kyoto (1-0).
4th goes red killing musket in Cheju (2-0).
3rd does better and razes the place for 5 gold, 2 trebs and 4 slaves (3-0).
Found town. This one town for each raze will make it hard to get unit support up where we need it. Guess we will have to wait for cavs to make big progress.
I think we should abandon Caesarstadt and found two towns to use all the land there. If I can get two settlers to the spots timed with a razing.
3/5 knight kills Korean LB and gets leader (4-0).
19th kills LB in front of Kyoto and we now have 4 armies 1 tile away form kyoto (5-0). [12-0]
1415AD (3):
Korea is in IA now. China is in anarchy.
I think it will be to hard to hold the west, so I am sending armies to block, if they can get there in time. Spanish UU arrives near towns there, so they will move fast.
6th kills Conquistador (1-0).
21st kills one (2-0) on way to Kyoto. I hate have them running loose.
MDI kills Chinese LB at Salad (3-0).
8th kills musket, I think Vike and Sami (5-0).
knight kills Byz pike and goes elite (6-0).
Armies next to Kyoto and have cut roads, need to heal.
[18-0]
IBT:
Iroq land 2 settler in old Korean land.
1420AD (4):
Too Many Cities.
Cyrene needs another specialist and was making a lib. It is 75% corrupt and we are not researching, so switch to a market. That will help gold and happiness.
Form 22nd 3x right now.
Army grabs worker enroute to Kyoto and disbands.
Thought I saw a new civ, but I see we are at war with the 19 we know.
9th kills both muskets and grabs the settlers for 4 slaves (2-0).
The AI knows how to pick landing spots, yeah right. Lands next to 4 armies.
Japan has 16 sami's and 6 muskets and 5 mdi and a LB closing in on Praetorium.
[20-0]
IBT:
England galley is attacked by China galley and wins. China sinks it with next galley.
I think it was an Inca knight attacked a small stack of ours and died vs Legion (1-0).
large stack of Byz ships next to New Palmyra.
I opened a whole in the block to entice units to pass by where I could ping them and maybe kill a few. Looks like they went for it.
[21-0]
1425AD (5):
3rd and 6th kill Sami's near Praetorium (2-0).
Yuck, a rifle is looking straight at the armies in Kyoto. The 4x armies are not fully healed and the other is 3x (13hp). Three more armies are closing in.
5/5 knight kills rider (3-0).
knight kills sami (4-0).
5th kills another sami, next to Praetorium (5-0).
5th kills another sami (6-0).
Iroq has nearly 33k in gold.
Well I go for it and pull off the capture, will see if it holds. 4 armies 13,15,15,15HP each kills one and 2 kill 2 units. It was rifle, musket musket sami sami musket (12-0).
Last musket was regular.
All armies inside 6/6/7/8 HP as one got a promotion.
6 workers inside and I had 2 others for 8.
1 sami can reach to attack no roads so no others should reach this turn and the barracks was intact. I sell market.
[33-0]
IBT:
two samis attack knights on mountain and die (2-0).
many Nippon units turn around.
[35-0]
Well GLB does its thing and no MT. We get only two IA techs, but at least they are good ones.
Nationalist as we knew and drum roll STEAM.
1430AD (6):
no one knows MT in CAII. Babs and Iroq know Communism.
Set MT at 90% in 11, but I have not gone around yet to switch tax guys back to smart guys, probably drop by half.
We have two sources of coal, one under a town and one next to a town.
Now to go on with the set and do the nasty job off switching all those specialist. Note we have 3150 gold. The income is -33gpt, but will get much worse after the tax guys stop doing their job.
Too many cities.
knight kills Chinese LB and goes elite. I turned animate battles as it just freaks me out to not see the battle (1-0).
It looks like we have no blocks anywhere now. It also looks like there is land connections on all sides. We have no or maybe a few bombardment units on the old Seoul parcels. We could have too many units to contain with all those mountains. Muskets and Sami's are not a lot of fun for knights at full health.
3/5 knight kills zerk (2-0).
Fix a couple of town about to riot. Tromso was one and it was +2 food and building a granary? Anyway it needs irrigation to grow and will need lux. Anyone seen a 4th one on this continent?
knight kills Inca musket (3-0).
5/5 MDI kills one to clear Auditorium (4-0).
set block across west side of Auditorium. This will cause units to go around towards Praetoranium. I do not want that, but I have to start somewhere.
I bite the bullet and switch all scientist to tax, except one. Now making 508gpt. What a pain.
We have 14 legion armies all 4x. We have 7 knight armies, 16th is 3x.
knight kills Byz spear (5-0).
I can make a block on the Praetoranium side, but that means no cities can be attack other than the knight armies. I am not sure if I need to do that or can we handle what will come that way?
Not many opportunities for leaders as I see few elites and few chances to use non army units.
11th kills Bab musket no problem and then struggles with Byz pike (7-0).
IBT:
English and Chinese turn around at block.
Japan attacks Byz pike and dies, then another unit killed the pike.
Not sure if Kyoto added units or not. I saw a couple go in and at least one leave.
1410AD (2):
We have a number of cats and units along the coast, not sure what has happen in those areas, so I leave them alone.
TOO MANY CITIES.
21st kills English LB as I was blocked on way to Kyoto (1-0).
4th goes red killing musket in Cheju (2-0).
3rd does better and razes the place for 5 gold, 2 trebs and 4 slaves (3-0).
Found town. This one town for each raze will make it hard to get unit support up where we need it. Guess we will have to wait for cavs to make big progress.
I think we should abandon Caesarstadt and found two towns to use all the land there. If I can get two settlers to the spots timed with a razing.
3/5 knight kills Korean LB and gets leader (4-0).
19th kills LB in front of Kyoto and we now have 4 armies 1 tile away form kyoto (5-0). [12-0]
1415AD (3):
Korea is in IA now. China is in anarchy.
I think it will be to hard to hold the west, so I am sending armies to block, if they can get there in time. Spanish UU arrives near towns there, so they will move fast.
6th kills Conquistador (1-0).
21st kills one (2-0) on way to Kyoto. I hate have them running loose.
MDI kills Chinese LB at Salad (3-0).
8th kills musket, I think Vike and Sami (5-0).
knight kills Byz pike and goes elite (6-0).
Armies next to Kyoto and have cut roads, need to heal.
[18-0]
IBT:
Iroq land 2 settler in old Korean land.
1420AD (4):
Too Many Cities.
Cyrene needs another specialist and was making a lib. It is 75% corrupt and we are not researching, so switch to a market. That will help gold and happiness.
Form 22nd 3x right now.
Army grabs worker enroute to Kyoto and disbands.
Thought I saw a new civ, but I see we are at war with the 19 we know.
9th kills both muskets and grabs the settlers for 4 slaves (2-0).
The AI knows how to pick landing spots, yeah right. Lands next to 4 armies.
Japan has 16 sami's and 6 muskets and 5 mdi and a LB closing in on Praetorium.
[20-0]
IBT:
England galley is attacked by China galley and wins. China sinks it with next galley.
I think it was an Inca knight attacked a small stack of ours and died vs Legion (1-0).
large stack of Byz ships next to New Palmyra.
I opened a whole in the block to entice units to pass by where I could ping them and maybe kill a few. Looks like they went for it.
[21-0]
1425AD (5):
3rd and 6th kill Sami's near Praetorium (2-0).
Yuck, a rifle is looking straight at the armies in Kyoto. The 4x armies are not fully healed and the other is 3x (13hp). Three more armies are closing in.
5/5 knight kills rider (3-0).
knight kills sami (4-0).
5th kills another sami, next to Praetorium (5-0).
5th kills another sami (6-0).
Iroq has nearly 33k in gold.
Well I go for it and pull off the capture, will see if it holds. 4 armies 13,15,15,15HP each kills one and 2 kill 2 units. It was rifle, musket musket sami sami musket (12-0).
Last musket was regular.
All armies inside 6/6/7/8 HP as one got a promotion.
6 workers inside and I had 2 others for 8.
1 sami can reach to attack no roads so no others should reach this turn and the barracks was intact. I sell market.
[33-0]
IBT:
two samis attack knights on mountain and die (2-0).
many Nippon units turn around.
[35-0]
Well GLB does its thing and no MT. We get only two IA techs, but at least they are good ones.
Nationalist as we knew and drum roll STEAM.
1430AD (6):
no one knows MT in CAII. Babs and Iroq know Communism.
Set MT at 90% in 11, but I have not gone around yet to switch tax guys back to smart guys, probably drop by half.
We have two sources of coal, one under a town and one next to a town.
Now to go on with the set and do the nasty job off switching all those specialist. Note we have 3150 gold. The income is -33gpt, but will get much worse after the tax guys stop doing their job.
AndrewN
Prince
OK, I called it first
BTW Steam
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
. So now you have Steam is this game won?On MT, the AI normally researches it fairly quickly, although according to this War Academy article, as the AI dosen't value resourced attack units (cavalry) very highly but loves resourceless defence units (rifles), it is not surprising they miss it on occasions. Still, they will probably have it before you do
Yes they want to get in the new age, just like we do, but I had rather thought with so many of them, someone would have researched it. The problem is that when they research Mag as the last required tech, they pop into IA and then they want Nationalism and Communism and Fascism.
Oh and the won thing is not a given. It will mean they will be driven off the land and not be able to invade, but it does not mean we will be able to eliminate them all before the bell rings. It will be very close. Invasion will face 10 or more nations. Maybe all with rails up in places, cavs and infantry and maybe more. If they have bombers, it will be very very tough.
It is a nightmare to try to attack with bombers as they will damage or kill our armies and then the armies will be attacked. You can deal with it, but it is a real pain.
BTW I have started a few galleon and we need to get some frigate going. I am trying to avoid making them on the Byz side as I fear dromons bombarding them in harbors.
Oh and the won thing is not a given. It will mean they will be driven off the land and not be able to invade, but it does not mean we will be able to eliminate them all before the bell rings. It will be very close. Invasion will face 10 or more nations. Maybe all with rails up in places, cavs and infantry and maybe more. If they have bombers, it will be very very tough.
It is a nightmare to try to attack with bombers as they will damage or kill our armies and then the armies will be attacked. You can deal with it, but it is a real pain.
BTW I have started a few galleon and we need to get some frigate going. I am trying to avoid making them on the Byz side as I fear dromons bombarding them in harbors.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Great news. Our luck basically held, if we only had to attack one rifleman in Kyoto. Thanks for the interim report. 
Well, this difficulty level could hold nasty surprises, but certainly the odds swing dramatically in our favour now.
Well, this difficulty level could hold nasty surprises, but certainly the odds swing dramatically in our favour now.
Excellent work, vxma.
I think a win is good odds now. I would consider Industrialization for factories next since I think we will be in for the long haul. Getting factories up will definitely help.
I think a win is good odds now. I would consider Industrialization for factories next since I think we will be in for the long haul. Getting factories up will definitely help.
ThERat
Deity
excellent work
This game surely will last pretty long, thus I assume we want to get AT and Electronics from the ToE? Do we agree to go for Industrialization -> electricity, then depending on the AI progress either RP or medicine and SM?
This game surely will last pretty long, thus I assume we want to get AT and Electronics from the ToE? Do we agree to go for Industrialization -> electricity, then depending on the AI progress either RP or medicine and SM?
I would think we can afford to go for Ind next. 7 civs have steam and 5 have Nat and 3 have Commie (Byz.Bab and Iroq. We can deal with Byz. Don't know if any of those went back for MT or are pushing on, but we should start getting much stronger after MT.
I will post the latest log so you can see my thoughts on the ToE and MA. I fully agree AT and Elec as we will need to get to Modern Age and Mechs.
I will post the latest log so you can see my thoughts on the ToE and MA. I fully agree AT and Elec as we will need to get to Modern Age and Mechs.
1430AD (6): continued
knight kills Korean musket (1-0).
Switch specialist and now it is 7 turns at -231gpt.
Too Many cities.
kill 4 Chinese units at Auditorium 3 elite wins (5-0).
That is the hole I opened.
13th kills Japan musket and Chinese pike (7-0).
11th kills Chinese LB (8-0).
Stack of 18 Chinese there a few tiles from Praetorium (9-0). [44-0]
IBT:
Inca knight attacked Kyoto and dies (1-0).
A bunch of Inca and Japanese units reach Kyoto, just in time to watch it get abandon after the IT.
Byz does another of those turn around a stack of ships. It was about 8 and I did not even ping them?
[45-0]
1435AD (7):
This will be for the next player to decide, but I switched Rome to uni to hold maximum shields till MT. You can either let it build it or switch to MA. Leaving the palace build for ToE.
The next question will be to work out the timing and if you want to spend a gang to rail those cities and when. There is a large difference from Rome to the next three right now, so it is the place for the MA.
I will continue to rail out and after the switch or start of MA, you may want to send one gang back.
4/5 knight kill Chinese LB (1-0).
3rd kills Japanese musket (2-0).
Pisae now starving, will work a rail crew that way.
3rd kills a second musket (3-0).
Abandon Kyoto, it took a long time, even though it had no roads?
Found a replacement town.
[48-0]
IBT:
Nothing much, but this was sort of funny. Hammy signed an embargo with Henry on us. Then Henry got his turn and the embargo was ended. Henry then ask to trade maps, so I DOW his behind.
Japan turn the retreating units back our way.
Byz also reversed it course with the ships?
1440AD (8):
I should mention I have sold off walls as I see them in large cities.
Henry does not have MT and no one has it so far, in 5 turns for us.
Too Many Cities.
4th kills Babylon musket/settler, I forgot to mention it landed (1-0).
Kill 2 muskets and a zerk in Herald or what ever it was for 34 gold. 2 slaves and a cannon 4-0).
Found town.
Moved the cats into Curia now that the rails are there.
18th kills Inca knight (5-0). [53-0]
Trying to get it done tonight, if I can as I will be watching the Tour in the morning. If not I will finish after lunch.
knight kills Korean musket (1-0).
Switch specialist and now it is 7 turns at -231gpt.
Too Many cities.
kill 4 Chinese units at Auditorium 3 elite wins (5-0).
That is the hole I opened.
13th kills Japan musket and Chinese pike (7-0).
11th kills Chinese LB (8-0).
Stack of 18 Chinese there a few tiles from Praetorium (9-0). [44-0]
IBT:
Inca knight attacked Kyoto and dies (1-0).
A bunch of Inca and Japanese units reach Kyoto, just in time to watch it get abandon after the IT.
Byz does another of those turn around a stack of ships. It was about 8 and I did not even ping them?
[45-0]
1435AD (7):
This will be for the next player to decide, but I switched Rome to uni to hold maximum shields till MT. You can either let it build it or switch to MA. Leaving the palace build for ToE.
The next question will be to work out the timing and if you want to spend a gang to rail those cities and when. There is a large difference from Rome to the next three right now, so it is the place for the MA.
I will continue to rail out and after the switch or start of MA, you may want to send one gang back.
4/5 knight kill Chinese LB (1-0).
3rd kills Japanese musket (2-0).
Pisae now starving, will work a rail crew that way.
3rd kills a second musket (3-0).
Abandon Kyoto, it took a long time, even though it had no roads?
Found a replacement town.
[48-0]
IBT:
Nothing much, but this was sort of funny. Hammy signed an embargo with Henry on us. Then Henry got his turn and the embargo was ended. Henry then ask to trade maps, so I DOW his behind.
Japan turn the retreating units back our way.
Byz also reversed it course with the ships?
1440AD (8):
I should mention I have sold off walls as I see them in large cities.
Henry does not have MT and no one has it so far, in 5 turns for us.
Too Many Cities.
4th kills Babylon musket/settler, I forgot to mention it landed (1-0).
Kill 2 muskets and a zerk in Herald or what ever it was for 34 gold. 2 slaves and a cannon 4-0).
Found town.
Moved the cats into Curia now that the rails are there.
18th kills Inca knight (5-0). [53-0]
Trying to get it done tonight, if I can as I will be watching the Tour in the morning. If not I will finish after lunch.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
That all sounds good to me. Like Greebley, I'm a strong believer in researching Industrialization immediately after SP unless there's serious danger of our being beaten to ToE.
Here is the save. I have not gone around to cvheck on all the towns, only some.
We do not have that many workers, so the rails are slow. The two forks are soon to be connected to the capitol though.
Knight armies should be able to start doing damage. They are close to being grouped and have nearly healed.
16th and 22nd are the only 3x armies.
1st thru 14th are Legions.
15th through 22nd are knights.
I have one gang that was trying to road a few mountains to allow clearing of any barb camps and is now railing back to the grass. One gang railing the palace build and the rest cranking the network.
Well the upload keeps failing. Wil try later.
We do not have that many workers, so the rails are slow. The two forks are soon to be connected to the capitol though.
Knight armies should be able to start doing damage. They are close to being grouped and have nearly healed.
16th and 22nd are the only 3x armies.
1st thru 14th are Legions.
15th through 22nd are knights.
I have one gang that was trying to road a few mountains to allow clearing of any barb camps and is now railing back to the grass. One gang railing the palace build and the rest cranking the network.
Well the upload keeps failing. Wil try later.
IBT:
Japan turns most of it troops around again.
Byz ask for peace.
1445AD (9):
20th kills vike musket and zerk (2-0).
Too Many Cities.
10th kills Conquistador (3-0).
5/5 knight kills Nippon musket (4-0).
Four knights kill 4 zerks and two go elite (8-0).
3 knights kill pike/mdi/lb Chinese (11-0).
6th kills 2 Chinese pikes on mountain (13-0).
11th kills 2 more (15-0).
5th kills 2 more (17-0). Note these are all 2/4 now.
3rd kills last one and an MDI (19-0).
4th kills 2 Chinese MDI (21-0).
22nd kils 2 more and a LB (24-0).
knight kills a lb (25-0).
knight kills LB (26-0).
9th kills zerk and Korean LB (28-0).
[81-0]
IBT:
AI does it usual confusing moves. In the East fork Japan and Spain turn back. In the West fork the move forward? Byz split the fleet and half moved back. I saw a privateer sink a caravel. I think the caravel was Iroq, but could be Bab or Korea. I did not see the color that clearly.
I also saw an Inca knight kill a Chinese pike.
1450AD (10):
2 elites kill Chinese units and a knight does one (3-0).
18th kills Inca knight (4-0).
16th kill elite Conq (5-0).
19th kills sami (6-0).
I have tried to avoid rails on the coast as I fear frigates.
2 knights kil zerks (8-0).
11th kills zerk (9-0).
knight kills zerk (10-0).
knight dies (10-1).
13th kills 2 zerks (12-1).
9th kills 2 more (14-1).
Too Many Cities.
2 more knight kills zerks (16-1).
[97-1]
Japan turns most of it troops around again.
Byz ask for peace.
1445AD (9):
20th kills vike musket and zerk (2-0).
Too Many Cities.
10th kills Conquistador (3-0).
5/5 knight kills Nippon musket (4-0).
Four knights kill 4 zerks and two go elite (8-0).
3 knights kill pike/mdi/lb Chinese (11-0).
6th kills 2 Chinese pikes on mountain (13-0).
11th kills 2 more (15-0).
5th kills 2 more (17-0). Note these are all 2/4 now.
3rd kills last one and an MDI (19-0).
4th kills 2 Chinese MDI (21-0).
22nd kils 2 more and a LB (24-0).
knight kills a lb (25-0).
knight kills LB (26-0).
9th kills zerk and Korean LB (28-0).
[81-0]
IBT:
AI does it usual confusing moves. In the East fork Japan and Spain turn back. In the West fork the move forward? Byz split the fleet and half moved back. I saw a privateer sink a caravel. I think the caravel was Iroq, but could be Bab or Korea. I did not see the color that clearly.
I also saw an Inca knight kill a Chinese pike.
1450AD (10):
2 elites kill Chinese units and a knight does one (3-0).
18th kills Inca knight (4-0).
16th kill elite Conq (5-0).
19th kills sami (6-0).
I have tried to avoid rails on the coast as I fear frigates.
2 knights kil zerks (8-0).
11th kills zerk (9-0).
knight kills zerk (10-0).
knight dies (10-1).
13th kills 2 zerks (12-1).
9th kills 2 more (14-1).
Too Many Cities.
2 more knight kills zerks (16-1).
[97-1]
I have not been able to get CFC to load the save so far. ThERat I could email it to you, if you want. Just need an address or anyone that may be able to host the save.
ThERat
Deity
sent you a pm with my email address
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5353468&t=6486#post5353468
try this link on poly for the save.
try this link on poly for the save.
ThERat
Deity
ok, that worked out
Glad to here that, I also emailed it to you. Now the others can DL the save. I should have thought of it sooner.
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
Have a looked at save. Well, the game is "done", in the sense that it comes to "technical stage". Of course, if we want to have fun longer we can research to Modern adge... But in my experience RP+Mil._Trad. normally enough to kill them all. Also, with Mobilisation we can do it lot faster. Essential part of my "algorithm" is Arty+Cav+Worker+ Settlers interaction. We have lot of Catapults to upgrade.
To simplify it better to have Leonardo. It is in Peterburg, under Byzantya. Note, that Moscow and many native Russian Cities belongs to Vikings, so Leonardo is near Vikings-Byzantia border.
I recomend scout with Knights Armies North accross Viking's land to localise Peterburg and work out plan how to capture it.
To simplify it better to have Leonardo. It is in Peterburg, under Byzantya. Note, that Moscow and many native Russian Cities belongs to Vikings, so Leonardo is near Vikings-Byzantia border.
I recomend scout with Knights Armies North accross Viking's land to localise Peterburg and work out plan how to capture it.
