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Gr8 Team B The Pheonix Rising
- Thread starter Own
- Start date
. Anybody want to roll a start?
No, I think barbs make it harder. Barbs mean goody huts, which means free techs for the AIs. Barbs also mean camps, which means dozens of AI units wandering all over the place, which means more civs met earlier. The minor annoyance that barbs cause to AI civs isn't that significant in comparison, IMO.
60% water will indeed make it even harder in the long run -- there are going to be some massive, massive AI civs out there. But it might give us more space/delay contacts early on, which makes things easier -- I have no idea where the balance is on that one.
Are we really sure we want a two-city golden age? That's the only real drawback to Carthage -- the starting techs are ideal -- but it's a fairly big one.
Oh, and I wanted to point out, I hope in the restart we can manage city placement so we have more 1-turn reinforcement opportunities. The river really got in the way in the last game.
60% water will indeed make it even harder in the long run -- there are going to be some massive, massive AI civs out there. But it might give us more space/delay contacts early on, which makes things easier -- I have no idea where the balance is on that one.
Are we really sure we want a two-city golden age? That's the only real drawback to Carthage -- the starting techs are ideal -- but it's a fairly big one.
Oh, and I wanted to point out, I hope in the restart we can manage city placement so we have more 1-turn reinforcement opportunities. The river really got in the way in the last game.
I wanted AW spacing with occasional blunders, because units can still be shuffled around, if a city with excess units CXXXC from the capital needs to send reinforcements, it can send them to a city CXXC from it and the capital, then that city can send some to the capital. We do have a comeback phase, and CXXXC spacing is generally better for building.
2 city GA is no biggie. Consider the GA just a bonus. I hope we don't have to rely on a GA to win.
Actually 70% water is harder, something to do with AW (I guess you meet more civs faster?). Somebody mentioned it's a lot harder, must be some civ spacing reason, I d/k
2 city GA is no biggie. Consider the GA just a bonus. I hope we don't have to rely on a GA to win.
Actually 70% water is harder, something to do with AW (I guess you meet more civs faster?). Somebody mentioned it's a lot harder, must be some civ spacing reason, I d/k
IMO Carthage is better than Greece. We don't have to build some spears and some archers with them. Also, being close to catapults is the most important thing. IMO we should go min for mathematics, we can maybe trade our lump sum gold we've been saving up for bronze (along with a starting tech too). Oh yeah, rules say we can't do that.
Revision of the variant rules-
AW until 10AD
No GL
No initial trades
Revision of the variant rules-
AW until 10AD
No GL
Leha
ooseepoosee
I'm working now. If nobody starts us till the evening I'll roll some starts. Several thoughts, correct me if I'm wrong:
- We'll leave 70% large map continents (after all it's not total AW)
- No barbs (we don't want to give AI extra bonus)
- Carthage (I prefer Greece, we'll need scintific later in case we survive).
If voted otherwise whatever civ is voted for.
- I'd like to start not in the center of the map (which is not exactly cheating, we'll have our portion of beating anyway)
- We'll leave 70% large map continents (after all it's not total AW)
- No barbs (we don't want to give AI extra bonus)
- Carthage (I prefer Greece, we'll need scintific later in case we survive).
If voted otherwise whatever civ is voted for.
- I'd like to start not in the center of the map (which is not exactly cheating, we'll have our portion of beating anyway)
I'm feeling that Carthage is not good enough to survive. NM is cool in defense, but they are too expensive. You will have 50% more hoplites with the same shields. You cannot afford building a wall of defenders to avoid being pillaged, so your economy will be broken quite soon. What's more, the seafaring trait can only contribute several gpt to AW. But it will be great if you prove I'm wrong ...
It would be more interesting to use Germany, partly for cheaper walls and rax. And how satisfying is it to trigger GA using panzer vs. mech infantry?
It would be more interesting to use Germany, partly for cheaper walls and rax. And how satisfying is it to trigger GA using panzer vs. mech infantry?
Own said:Catapults make up for all the detriments. 3 defense is big, especially with early walls. A wall of defense isn't necessary, just build archers and catapults.
I think archer is wasteful. Even rax is wasteful. Just build regular NM, they will get promotion almost for sure. I have tried that out using Greece ...
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
I agree with Renata that our city placement wasn't good. In AW games you ideally want the first 4-5 cities to be able to mutually support each other, chaining like Own suggests isn't good enough. I would even go for 2 tile spacing if needed.
Yesterday I played a little test game (60 turns) as Carthage. Started on coast, with nearby rivers, and got BW and Masonry after ~60 turns (~25 for BW, ~35 for Mas IIRC), but the river was very helpful here. GA is indeed triggered early and so pretty useless. Food is a problem - no granary and no food bonus, I had only 3 cities after 60 turns. Mercs are good but not better than the cheap hoplites, you're not going to attack with these guys. Seafaring is fairly useless, I don't think we really want to send out curraghs to find friends. Set water to 60% and there was a lot of room, I had only one opponent (Maya) so survived the first 60 easily. I think 70% water is better, AW on one civ isn't much fun. Barbs were set to random, but we probably don't want them - goody huts hardly give us something good on this level.
I like the idea of each of us playing a start. I will try Rome on 70% water, no barbs, but I'm hoping that someone picks up Germany and perhaps Carthage, they're interesting choices I think. I've also been thinking about Ottomans, not much help early on but might be interesting in the come-back phase.
Yesterday I played a little test game (60 turns) as Carthage. Started on coast, with nearby rivers, and got BW and Masonry after ~60 turns (~25 for BW, ~35 for Mas IIRC), but the river was very helpful here. GA is indeed triggered early and so pretty useless. Food is a problem - no granary and no food bonus, I had only 3 cities after 60 turns. Mercs are good but not better than the cheap hoplites, you're not going to attack with these guys. Seafaring is fairly useless, I don't think we really want to send out curraghs to find friends. Set water to 60% and there was a lot of room, I had only one opponent (Maya) so survived the first 60 easily. I think 70% water is better, AW on one civ isn't much fun. Barbs were set to random, but we probably don't want them - goody huts hardly give us something good on this level.
I like the idea of each of us playing a start. I will try Rome on 70% water, no barbs, but I'm hoping that someone picks up Germany and perhaps Carthage, they're interesting choices I think. I've also been thinking about Ottomans, not much help early on but might be interesting in the come-back phase.
I'm guessing he meant math.
I played a few starts as Germany, and I've attached one that looks playable. I went out about 40 turns and met exactly one civ, which I was able to handle pretty easily. (The RNG was quite kind, which helped.) I'll attach the starting .jpg and the start save. It's not a perfect start, but it's pretty good. (NB: I settled in place on the bonus grass so as to be able to irrigate the cow without a whole bunch of wasted turns.)
Anyone else want to put up a save with a different civ, and maybe we could vote on which we want to play? If we wind up using this one, I could post my first 20, 30 or 40 turns, whatever we want to do.
I played a few starts as Germany, and I've attached one that looks playable. I went out about 40 turns and met exactly one civ, which I was able to handle pretty easily. (The RNG was quite kind, which helped.) I'll attach the starting .jpg and the start save. It's not a perfect start, but it's pretty good. (NB: I settled in place on the bonus grass so as to be able to irrigate the cow without a whole bunch of wasted turns.)
Anyone else want to put up a save with a different civ, and maybe we could vote on which we want to play? If we wind up using this one, I could post my first 20, 30 or 40 turns, whatever we want to do.
Attachments
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
ehm, yeah, i meant math.
I'm happy with Renata's start - though more than one opponent might be more fun.
I'm happy with Renata's start - though more than one opponent might be more fun.
If this is too easy (this is supposedly harder than AWD small continents), then after we win let's get a start with more than one opponentzyxy said:
. Even with only one opponent it will be tough. Handy and his GOMOAW make it look way too easy.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Oh, Germany? Das ist fantastische.
Will we continue in this thread or open a new one?
And starting position isn't bad at all. I'd say pretty good.
Will we continue in this thread or open a new one?
And starting position isn't bad at all. I'd say pretty good.
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