Greek police shooting sparks riot

[RedRalph]

You pro-authority rightwinger ((c)2OO8 RedRalphWiggum)! How dare you question the right of anarchists to pillage and burn everything around them in a legitimate protest against the government! You fascist!



Sorry, but sometimes I have an impression that the world has simply gone mad, turned upside down. People who act like criminals are being turned into saints only because they're being totally absent-minded left-wing idiots.

If it was the neo-nazis doing the EXACTLY same thing (burning everything in reach and attacking police), all the lefties here on CFC would complain why the police isn't doing something about it.

This is frakking ridiculous.

Yeaj we'll see what your reaction is if this happens in russia or Venezuela. socialists are now 6% ahead in the polls in Greece, time for an election methinks...

 

[philippe]

atticus, Kudos to you for being such a civilized person. great posts and great remarks.

 

[Bugfatty300]

But if you need to know, in what I call a civilized country police isn't allowed to execute on spot even for murder, the murderer

But they can "execute" in order to prevent a murder from taking place. You're equating self-defense with a judicial homicide.

 

[Atticus]

Because these so-called "rioters" really are trying to burn cops to death... aka murder.

What Mr Dictator said. And I do understand that Stormrage initially said it as a hyperbole. It's just that sometimes good to remind users of such words about the reality. Too much of exaggeration leads some people to really believe in harsh punishments and no-trial-needed things.

You didn't mention Rechtstaat in your previous post. You said "a civilised country". Country can be civilised regardles of it's legal sistem. So please don't change your arguments between every two posts.
And those criminals rioting in Greece enjoy very easy treatment. Do you think it's O.K. that they destroy other people's property and injure them? Yes or no?

No I don't. You really want to see things black and white, don't you? I say that police shouldn't have the right to kill people for destroying property, and you suspect that I mean it's ok to destroy property. Maybe you should live in some muslim country, you really would love their sharia-law!

And you can forget that Rehtsstaat-thing. In civilized country police don't have the right to execute people without a trial. Full stop.

EDIT: oops, didn't notice there was page 11. Thanks Philippe

Bugfatty, you probably didn't notice, but I was talking about Stromrage's general statement on page 9, not any specific case.

 

[plarq]

Yeaj we'll see what your reaction is if this happens in russia or Venezuela. socialists are now 6% ahead in the polls in Greece, time for an election methinks...

Kind of getting partisan... Winner support current administrations of EU, while you support both socialist (Venezuela) and right-wing nationalist (Russia) administrations.

So I find Winner more consistent than you.

 

[Volum]

Could someone please answer this for me?

1. Why do the police not have the authority to enter universities? Who thought that was a good idea? Its like when your little brother punches you in the crotch and then runs hide behind your mother, you cant do anything.

2. Why did they try to burn down the city Christmas three? Do anarchist not have any Christmas spirit?

 

[Winner]

Yeaj we'll see what your reaction is if this happens in russia or Venezuela. socialists are now 6% ahead in the polls in Greece, time for an election methinks...

So, according to you, the opposition should encourage people to riot in order to bring down the government each time it begins to start losing in public opinion polls? Which means usually few months after the elections?

Is that it? Because that's not exactly consistent with modern-day liberal democracy.

 

[Winner]

Could someone please answer this for me?

Ask the Greeks.

As for the first qustion, I think universitites have many priviledges in many other countries too, this tradition goes way back, perhaps even to medieval times.

 

[RedRalph]

So, according to you, the opposition should make people riot to bring down the government each time it begins to start losing in public opinion polls? Which means usually few months after the elections?

Is that it?

No according to me, it's quite well known that the Greek govt is indeed considering holding an election due to the riots. It seems fairly obvious there is quite a large amount of discontent in Greece with the govt and police force in particular so it may well be a good time to let the people express their will at the ballot box. that is democracy, no?

 

[Winner]

No according to me, it's quite well known that the Greek govt is indeed considering holding an election due to the riots. It seems fairly obvious there is quite a large amount of discontent in Greece with the govt and police force in particular so it may well be a good time to let the people express their will at the ballot box. that is democracy, no?

No, that would be a mob rule.

People start hating any reform government shortly after it wins the elections and they find out that reforms are painful. Then the opposition, usually left-wing (but it's not a rule) starts calling for an early elections.

Sorry, but no country could function under these circumstances. The electoral term is given and every government which has a majority should finish it, not give up to disgruntled demonstrants. If the people don't like what's happening, they can vote for someone else in the next elections.

Early elections are an extraordinary measure, which should be used only when the government is effectively unable to function (when it loses a majority in parliament and can't pass any laws, for instance).

Any democratic politician should have a sense of responsibility. If there is an unrest, deal with it, not throw in the towel and leave.

 

[RedRalph]

So once again arch-democrat Winner takes a position which involves denying the people the opportunity to express their will. Doublespeak alive and well in Brno, I see.

 

[Winner]

So once again arch-democrat Winner takes a position which involves denying the people the opportunity to express their will. Doublespeak alive and well in Brno, I see.

Are you serious? Quote me on that, go ahead. Where do I deny people the opportunity to express their will?

I believe in a representative democracy. We have elections and the people vote for the party of their choosing. Then they wait for another elections, that is how it works.

You don't go out and start burning cars each time the government does somehting you don't like, that's absolutely NOT a democracy, that's a mob rule, anarchy.

 

[Yeekim]

Any democratic politician should have a sense of responsibility. If there is an unrest, deal with it, not throw in the towel and leave.

I would say it really depends on how large the unrest is.

 

[RedRalph]

Are you serious? Quote me on that, go ahead. Where do I deny people the opportunity to express their will?

I believe in a representative democracy. We have elections and the people vote for the party of their choosing. Then they wait for another elections, that is how it works.

You don't go out and start burning cars each time the government does somehting you don't like, that's absolutely NOT a democracy, that's a mob rule, anarchy.

There is very, very obviously an exceptional set of circumstances here. It has become painfully obvious that the Greek govt no longer represents the will of the Greek people. Even the Greek govt seems to be aware of this. Thsi is exactly the type of situation where an early election would be the best course of action. Of course, you dont want that to happen because the will of the Greek people now seems almost certaintly to have a socialist govt.

At the minute there is violence on the streets. the best way to end it is to let people vote.

 

[Winner]

There is very, very obviously an exceptional set of circumstances here. It has become painfully obvious that the Greek govt no longer represents the will of the Greek people.

No, it represents the will of the people until its term expires.

It might be unpopular at this time, but popularity and legal representation based on the results of free elections are not the same thing.

Even the Greek govt seems to be aware of this. Thsi is exactly the type of situation where an early election would be the best course of action. Of course, you dont want that to happen because the will of the Greek people now seems almost certaintly to have a socialist govt.

Believe me, I don't give a flying crap about who they elect. I didn't even know that the current gov. was right-wing until somebody here told me.

This is a matter of principle. If you cave to angry mob once, every other government will be weakened. How do you know that the new left-wing gov. in Greece won't face this exact same thing 2 years from now, this time from far-right rioters?

It doesn't matter what their ideology is, a democratically elected government which faces no legal or practical obstacles should finish its term. It should not in any situation step down because of a violent protests of a small segment of the society which represents nobody but itself.

Elections are the way how to get a new government, not Christmas tree burning. Try to remember that.

At the minute there is violence on the streets. the best way to end it is to let people vote.

Yeah, caving to blackmail is sooo democratic. Giving rioters what they want each time they burn some cars is a sign of a good democratic governance

 

[Godwynn]

2. Why did they try to burn down the city Christmas three? Do anarchist not have any Christmas spirit?

They are attention-getters. Think about it, if you are rioting, wouldn't you want to burn down something big, famous, and recognizable?

 

[philippe]

Ask the Greeks.

As for the first qustion, I think universitites have many priviledges in many other countries too, this tradition goes way back, perhaps even to medieval times.

it used to way back more privileges, back in medieval times, the university had it's own court.

I guess it originates from the fact, that th university was first a clerical institution.

 

[bhsup]

What Mr Dictator said. And I do understand that Stormrage initially said it as a hyperbole. It's just that sometimes good to remind users of such words about the reality. Too much of exaggeration leads some people to really believe in harsh punishments and no-trial-needed things.

No hyperbole in my statement at all. They -are- trying to murder the police. There is no other possible intent when you throw a molotov cocktail at someone.

 

[Atticus]

I didn't say that there was hyperbole in your argument. I said that post #175 on page 9 by Stormrage was probably hyperbole.

But if you claim that rioters in general are trying to murder police, I don't think hyperbole is strong enough word to describe your argument. (Please notice that I have spoken only about rioters in general as a response to post #175).

 

[Communisto]

Yeah, caving to blackmail is sooo democratic. Giving rioters what they want each time they burn some cars is a sign of a good democratic governance

Actually, if it were a good democratic government, the people would have no reason to burn cars. Do you honestly think that all these people are "anarchists", as so many people have falsy insinuated in this thread? No, they are pissed off people who are angry at their government. People don't riot for nothing, winner. Not for this long anyways.