[Guide] Mauling Deity

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This seems to me to be all about marathon and raging barbs. You can really exploit the barbarian game design for lots of gold, culture and upgraded units at marathon speed.

I don't think one should play with barbarians at epic or marathon, I even think it is lame at standard. Barbarians are very exploitable.

@OP - you made a thread asking how to make deity tougher and I replied with "great plains, no barbs,... some other stuff". Did you ever try that?

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Anyways, overall the guide is decent but really stress that it is for marathon speeds. I like epic and marathon speed but I also impose rules that keep me from abusing game mechanics that are bolstered by the greater number of turns.

Finally, there are oddities that make me wonder if we are playing the same versions. I'll just leave it at that.

So, if you want to impress, just grab some diety challenge (any of em, easy, medium, hard) off these forums and show your strategy and tactics work by winning and posting screenshots or videos. That would be cool.

The Barbarian settings is a suggested setting for novices, not a requirement. Please read carefully.

Also, I'm not here to "impress" anyone.
If that was the case I'd be joining the challenge groups - but this thread is a guide to get pre-deity players to start winning deity through a strategy I developed and have been successful with.
Then again, honestly winning deity isn't really impressive to begin with: at this date, I believe most Civ players found their way into and beyond deity.
This is just one of the many ways to do it.
 
522 turns into a game and you've only explored that tiny bit of the world? *boggle*
 
Alright since there is a lot of skepticism how about you give me one hard challenge that would prove my strategy is effective?
I paint the world my color, post shots and then you stop posting garbage.

Perhaps the best way to deal with close-minded pests who think civ v is such a hard game that it can only be played by strictly following one conventional way is to squash this absurd principle at its root.

Moderator Action: Accusing others of being 'close-minded [sic] pests' who post 'garbage' amounts to rolling; it's only going to provoke negative reactions.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Alright since there is a lot of skepticism how about you give me one hard challenge that would prove my strategy is effective?
I paint the world my color, post shots and then you stop posting garbage.

Perhaps the best way to deal with close-minded pests who think civ v is such a hard game that it can only be played by strictly following one conventional way is to squash this absurd principle at its root.

Start doing the player posted deity challenges and win using your "strategy" and you'll get some respect. Post for the first time telling everyone that you are superior and call them pests.... well you can see the results.
 
Screenshots have just made this thread even more ambiguous.

First of all,

Deity marathon = Emperor standard

And finally,

You had 522 turns to explore and you barely explored the whole map...your cities aren't that large but i don't blame you because i don't see any city states!!Hmm?!? Though, i've seen mp games with humans(including me) making larger empires, cities bpt rate AND army at that time and we play quick speed(and no gold trades!)

Cookie settings will never be taken seriously. If you really want to put something solid on the table, play standard speed with different environments(not like this ultra isolated start pictures!). You will probably realize that wonder based strategies are too risky to even counsider them as gneral statements...excepted marathon ;)
 
Alright since there is a lot of skepticism how about you give me one hard challenge that would prove my strategy is effective?
I paint the world my color, post shots and then you stop posting garbage.

Perhaps the best way to deal with close-minded pests who think civ v is such a hard game that it can only be played by strictly following one conventional way is to squash this absurd principle at its root.

Here's your hard challenge.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=497222
 
Start doing the player posted deity challenges and win using your "strategy" and you'll get some respect. Post for the first time telling everyone that you are superior and call them pests.... well you can see the results.

After one page of snide remarks, what kind of response did you expect? Respect is a two-way thing.
For instance for all the laughing of my wonder strategy everyone shut up upon seeing my capital with all those wonders and AI already helpless by Renaissance, changing subject to details like exploring faraway stuff (which is pointless for my strat since I don't need CS help) or other stuff.

If you create an environment where one must strictly abide to a conventionalized method and any creativity is shunned, there is little serious discussion to be had.

@Monthar
As far as I can see that is not a domination game. As stated in OP this strat is for domination only, can't be used for other victories.
The point of this strat is to turtle so strong the deity AI is completely unable to militarily harm you - and it can achieve exactly that.
 
Nice guide. I've taking notice of some of your tips and will use them once i get time to try out another deity game.
I do doubt the plausibility of some parts of your strategy, but still it seems to encompass alot of the aspects of how to beat the game on deity.

Not just:

"Beeline to this and that tech, oh and try to be better then the AI. There, how hard can it be to beat deity?!".
 
After one page of snide remarks, what kind of response did you expect? Respect is a two-way thing.
For instance for all the laughing of my wonder strategy everyone shut up upon seeing my capital with all those wonders and AI already helpless by Renaissance, changing subject to details like exploring faraway stuff (which is pointless for my strat since I don't need CS help) or other stuff.

If you create an environment where one must strictly abide to a conventionalized method and any creativity is shunned, there is little serious discussion to be had.

@Monthar
As far as I can see that is not a domination game. As stated in OP this strat is for domination only, can't be used for other victories.
The point of this strat is to turtle so strong the deity AI is completely unable to militarily harm you - and it can achieve exactly that.

I do not think the issue is an aversion to creativity. I think many here regularly push themselves to try unconventional strategies. I just know from my experiences on deity, which are certainly not extensive compared to the more active posters here, much of your strategy runs counter to my own experiences and testing. I will caveat the following with I play standard settings. I cannot speak credibly to the impact of the proposed advice on Marathon games.

In particular, a few pieces of advice seemed strange:

1.) Pursuit of the Great Library - In my experience, the GL is frequently unachievable on Deity, and the hammer loss in such a critical early game strategy (not to mention the beaker loss) can be extremely damaging to long-term development

2.) Your proposed use of the City Governor - Because you are advocating pursuit of perhaps the most difficult Wonder to grab, I cannot imagine failing to maximize the growth mechanics that allow for extra hammers to be gained (specifically the use of Production Focus with manual tile selection)

3.) Automated Workers - Similarly, with early turns being so critical, it is strange to see advice indicating workers can be automated successfully so early in the game. Perhaps you are more talented than most around here, but frankly few can afford to be so loose in how they approach tile improvement. There is absolutely no strategic advantage to automating workers (unless you are worse at selecting tile improvements than the AI - in which case you have no business playing Deity), so it strikes me as odd advice to give others

Now none of this means your strategy is one that never works. It is just difficult to imagine, at least from my experiences in the game, the advice resulting in consistent success. That is why some are asking for save games/videos/screenshots to demonstrate why this unconventional strategy works for you.
 
I do not think the issue is an aversion to creativity. I think many here regularly push themselves to try unconventional strategies. I just know from my experiences on deity, which are certainly not extensive compared to the more active posters here, much of your strategy runs counter to my own experiences and testing. I will caveat the following with I play standard settings. I cannot speak credibly to the impact of the proposed advice on Marathon games.

In particular, a few pieces of advice seemed strange:

1.) Pursuit of the Great Library - In my experience, the GL is frequently unachievable on Deity, and the hammer loss in such a critical early game strategy (not to mention the beaker loss) can be extremely damaging to long-term development

2.) Your proposed use of the City Governor - Because you are advocating pursuit of perhaps the most difficult Wonder to grab, I cannot imagine failing to maximize the growth mechanics that allow for extra hammers to be gained (specifically the use of Production Focus with manual tile selection)

3.) Automated Workers - Similarly, with early turns being so critical, it is strange to see advice indicating workers can be automated successfully so early in the game. Perhaps you are more talented than most around here, but frankly few can afford to be so loose in how they approach tile improvement. There is absolutely no strategic advantage to automating workers (unless you are worse at selecting tile improvements than the AI - in which case you have no business playing Deity), so it strikes me as odd advice to give others

Now none of this means your strategy is one that never works. It is just difficult to imagine, at least from my experiences in the game, the advice resulting in consistent success. That is why some are asking for save games/videos/screenshots to demonstrate why this unconventional strategy works for you.

Thanks for your constructive post, I'll gladly answer all your points.

1) GL is a good chance to get a major advantage, with a guaranteed money return the few times it goes wrong.
As a gamble it's definitely all in the player's favor, therefore I'd feel bad for not even trying.
If one is very concerned with not wanting to fail wonders (which is quite strange, because if wonders were a 100% thing it would kind of defeat the whole point of Wonder Racing, no?) one can always roll Egypt.

2) I personally feel manual governor is not necessary, stopped doing it long ago.
The difference in the big scheme of things is so minimal compared to the the time investment and calculation you need to do.
Furthermore, this is a guide to non-deity players so they might not be good at manual-governor, and the default settings might actually do better than such a player could do.
When you take into consideration player mistakes (i.e. city grown but player focused on war and skips a couple turns of manual governoring the new tile), bad decisions on tile choice and allocation of mental focus, it's probably detrimental in the long run for most people.

3) I deleted that point entirely because I've grown bored of reading "omg auto workers".
As a matter of fact, once your first manual worker is done creating the necessary manual upgrades (lux, mines), if you make auto-workers they are just going to build farms/roads which you don't really need to do manually anyways.
Look at the upgrades on my screenshots, does any improvement seem wrong to you?
Beside Lux and Mines, everything else on that pic is automatic worker job.
This whole anti-autoworker stuff seems more like a recurring gag to me (which had a point a few patches ago), but as you can see they work fine once your manual settled the important stuff.

To answer your closing comment, the reason this strategy works is mainly heavy employement of defensive military tricks coupled with quick city booming and freeteching.
For domination games that is an extremely efficient way to play as you can beat armies tenfold your size while also keeping the tech gaps closed with the AI.

So, Falconiano, how do you feel about Polynesia and Piety? :)

I assume you're talking about Moai spamming combined with the effect of Piety completion?
I have yet to try that as I haven't really gone into cultural-anything (I'm a warmonger at heart :)) but that sounds interesting and might work great within a turtling strat.

I'm definitely going to give it a shot in my next game, you stimulated my curiosity.
 
@Monthar
As far as I can see that is not a domination game. As stated in OP this strat is for domination only, can't be used for other victories.

If you read the initial post it clearly says.
In this game, there is NO designated VC.
In other words, you can play that one as domination if you so choose. This is one of the few GotM games that lets you choose which VC you want to go for.
 
I think it would be taken more seriously if not for those automatic workers and letting governors run cities.

I have yet to play a marathon game and some of the standard openings we use on regular maps, speeds might work differently on marathon. Production focus trick is not as helpful if you take three times longer to grow a city, a free 2-3 hammer boost every eight turns is sweet and makes a difference but same boost every 25 turns is insignificant. I still can't wrap my mind around city governor.

To be honest I never seen an automated worker in any game so I don't know what they do, but I assume they are as bad as rest AI programmed decisions.

No scouts to open might be a result of trying for GL, but I would still rather get a scout and steal a worker with it.
 
2.) Your proposed use of the City Governor - Because you are advocating pursuit of perhaps the most difficult Wonder to grab, I cannot imagine failing to maximize the growth mechanics that allow for extra hammers to be gained (specifically the use of Production Focus with manual tile selection)
That means, one turn before growth, manually locking citizens on tiles and setting production focus to get the hammers from the tile worked by the new citizen, right?
But then, after you city has grown, can't you just revert to whatever governor you were using? Don't tell me that at Deity you micromanage constantly all the tiles in all your cities even during the late-game. From the LPs I have watched it doesn't seem so.

Sorry if I interfere, I am a King player so I have nothing to do with this thread, but I'm still struggling to understand this and other "advanced" techniques.
 
Once you have tiles locked all you do is assign newly born citizen, it does not take long, and yes I do and I assume others do it as well. Have at some point manually assigned every citizen in every city. If you have locked citizens you never take off production focus. Set it on turn one of each city and leave it there.
 
Thank you, one last question then I'll stop being off topic:
If you have locked citizens you never take off production focus. Set it on turn one of each city and leave it there.
But with citizens locked always on production tiles, my cities take forever to grow.
Also if I keep my citizens locked on production tiles, then it's the same as if I used the governor set on production focus. And with the governor set on production even before growth, there's no hammer bonus on growth because the governor already sets the new citizen on a hammer-high tile.
 
Thank you, one last question then I'll stop being off topic:

But with citizens locked always on production tiles, my cities take forever to grow.
Also if I keep my citizens locked on production tiles, then it's the same as if I used the governor set on production focus. And with the governor set on production even before growth, there's no hammer bonus on growth because the governor already sets the new citizen on a hammer-high tile.

You're supposed to set the governor to the production focus, but lock all your citizens to food tiles. When your city grows, it assigns the newest citizen to the highest production tile available. Since a city's production is calculated after its food, you will gain an extra citizen's worth of production on that one turn. After that, you lock that new citizen to a food tile and repeat the process.

It's very micromanagement-heavy, but it does help you gameplay overall. I usually stop doing this when I get to 10-15 production in a city because the gains are minimal compared to the overall production and I'm not motivated enough to do the extra micromanagement to get 26 production instead of 24.
 
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