Gunman Kills 8 in Attack on School in Jerusalem

[HannibalBarka]

Another article about Israel buying the land above its market value as skadi said:

Process of seizing Palestinian land by the Israeli government after 1948:

Furthermore, the Absentees' Property Law that was adopted in 1950 permitted confiscation of the land of a person deemed an "absentee." The original draft of the Absentees' Property Law would have defined as absentees only those who remained outside the 1949 armistice lines. As it was enacted, it included absent external refugees, internal refugees, and returning external refugees." (47) Many Palestinians were forbidden to return to their homes even though they were living in Israel. They still were referred to as "present absentees." (48)

 

[RedRalph]

But they usually go together.

No they dont. Loads of people disagree with Israel, it dosent make them anti-semetic. Thats just a way of defelecting legit criticism of Israel

 

[HannibalBarka]

actually, America supports Israel for their shared democratic values. And there you go again justifying terrorism, just listen to yourself!

You mean that kind of democratic value? Please stop insulting the US:

The Absentee Property Law was used against Palestinians whose land had been confiscated even if they had only left for a matter of a few days while the fighting was going on during the 1948 war. This law was only implemented against Palestinian Arabs. (49) This law could also have been used against some Jews who moved from one place to another, but the government did not invoke this law against them. (50) The Israeli government gave confiscated Palestinian absentee property to Jewish farmers. In fact, between 1948 and 1953 the government established 370 new Jewish settlements on land it had confiscated as "absentee" from Palestinian families. (51)

 

[HannibalBarka]

In 1948, after the UN accepted that the state of Israel and Palestine could be founded. The Arabs attacked the Israelis when half of Israel was under Arabic possesions (and the Israeli were OK with this). If you were Israel, and 6 Arabian nations will attack your'e lands, You will not fight back? you can't blame the Israelis for starting their war of independence, because they didn't start it.

I'm not blaming them for waging their war of independance, but about expelling 700,000 people and not letting them go back to their homes when the war ended

 

[HannibalBarka]

Isarel taking palestinian land for free:

The government confiscated over 85 percent of the land of the Bedouin Palestinians of the Negev Desert (55) and concentrated the remaining Bedouins into small, largely uncultivable nearby areas. (56)
All land was confiscated from those Palestinians who were refugees beyond the 1949 armistice lines. Of the land belonging to the Palestinians who remained, 65 percent had been confiscated by the mid-1950s. (58) In 1954, the value of land taken from the Palestinians was estimated at 100 million Palestinian pounds; including stone quarries, 10,000 acres of vineyards, 25,000 acres of citrus groves, 10,000 business establishments, 95 percent of what became Israel's olive groves, and 50,000 apartments. (59) Of the 859,000 Palestinians who lived within the territory on the Israeli side of the 1949 armistice lines, 684,000 lost their homes and their property. (60)
The government of Israel emptied about 400 Palestinian towns and villages. (61) It demolished many of them and planted forests to eradicate all traces of habitation. (62) One of the highest ranking Israeli officials (Moshe Dayan, former Defense Minister), referring to Zionist land acquisition both before and after 1948, said there was not a single settlement in Israel "which was not built on the site of a previous Arab settlement." (63)

(56.) Walter Schwarz, The Arabs in Israel (1959): 159-160.
(57.) Ibid.
(58.) Ian Lustick, Arabs in the Jewish State (1980): 179.
(59.) Don Peretz, "Problems of Arab Refugee Compensation," Middle East Journal, vol. 8, (1954): 403 at 404-404.
(60.) Arnold Toynbee, A Study of History, vol. 8 (1954): 289.
(61.) Charles S. Kamen, "The Arab Population in Palestine and Israel, 1946-1951," New Outlook (October-November 1984): 36 at p. 37; Israel Shahak, "Arab Villages Destroyed in Israel," in Davis and Mezvinsky, Documents from Israel, 1967-1973: Readings for a critique of Zionism (1975): 43, at 47.
(62.) Walter Schwarz, The Arabs in Israel (1959): 69.
(63.) Moshe Dayan, "My Standing in the Labor Party," lecture, Haifa Technical Institute, Ha'aretz, April 4, (1969): 15.

 

[Shrek3]

The Palesitinians and the Israelis like inflicting suffering on each other. I find it really hard to even care anymore.

True. It is a war. And as they say everything is fair in love and war. Human world is not black and white. It comes with various colors and many shades.

Want long lasting peace?? No one can force it, it has to come from within fighting parties. They have to give away something they love And accept what they hate. No solution is 100% perfect OR right or wrong. Worst is when two different fundamentalists are fighting with each other. Also when war is controlled and contained, no one will be the winner - hence no peace. And casuality in this case - truth, innocents, principals, moral values etc.

This is my generalization. A peaceful world is just utopian dream. Laugh and enjoy while you can!!

 

[Erik Mesoy]

*blame blame blame blame blame*

Sheesh. I've grown so tired of the whole situation that I'm leaning more and more towards the following position, suggested on CFC by I forget who:
Israel should stop it because Israel is in a more favorable position to stop it.
We can point fingers and exchange synonyms for "justified retaliation" and "unjustified revenge" forever, but Israel is better organised than the Palestinians are, has a better army, and has more clout in general, etc, so Israel should be the mature party and stop it because they're better equipped to do so. I have difficulty caring whether they do this by unilateral withdrawal, forced deportation of all Palestinians, or something else. Like genocide. According to the critics, they've already been genociding the Palestinians for decades.

 

[Winner]

If I was Israeli Prime Minister, I'd now be ordering the military to bomb the crap out of Gaza strip. I'd order the airforce to destroy everything even remotely related to Hamas and I would pay absolutely no attention to civilian casualties.

Then I'd quarantine Gaza strip (no food, water, medicine, no nothing would get in or out) and inform the Palestinians that the blockade won't be lifted until they hand over every single member of Hamas for trial. Either they do that, or they starve to death, their choice.

International community can go to hell, I can see the statements already:
"We regret this unfortunate act of violence, but we strongly ask Israeli government not to carry out any punitive action."

Translation:

"Do nothing and let Hamas massacre your people."

 

[RedRalph]

I love the attention to realism, winner

 

[Winner]

I love the attention to realism, winner

"Realist" solutions obviously don't work - Palestinians seem to be inherently unable to grasp the concept of compromise and tit for tat diplomacy.

Israel pulls out from Gaza -> Hamas wins elections and starts firing missiles at israeli towns.
Israel ends blockade of Gaza -> Hamas responds with killing 8 innocent young people, people like you or me.

History showed us that the only way how to make Arabs agree on peace with you is to repeatedly defeat them so badly that they realize that they can't accomplish anything by force.

It worked with Egypt and Jordan, now it's the time to teach Palestinians a lesson they won't forget. The sooner that happens, the better.

 

[holy king]

"Realist" solutions obviously don't work - Palestinians seem to be inherently unable to grasp the concept of compromise and tit for tat diplomacy.

Israel pulls out from Gaza -> Hamas wins elections and starts firing missiles at israeli towns.
Israel ends blockade of Gaza -> Hamas responds with killing 8 innocent young people, people like you or me.

History showed us that the only way how to make Arabs agree on peace with you is to repeatedly defeat them so badly that they realize that they can't accomplish anything by force.

It worked with Egypt and Jordan, now it's the time to teach Palestinians a lesson they won't forget. The sooner that happens, the better.

yeah, that's because they are members of the arab unter-rasse

 

[HannibalBarka]

"Realist" solutions obviously don't work - Palestinians seem to be inherently unable to grasp the concept of compromise and tit for tat diplomacy.
Israel pulls out from Gaza -> Hamas wins elections and starts firing missiles at israeli towns.
Israel ends blockade of Gaza -> Hamas responds with killing 8 innocent young people, people like you or me.
History showed us that the only way how to make Arabs agree on peace with you is to repeatedly defeat them so badly that they realize that they can't accomplish anything by force.
It worked with Egypt and Jordan, now it's the time to teach Palestinians a lesson they won't forget. The sooner that happens, the better.

You just forgot to mention that force worked also with Czeck, they kept quit from 1968 to 1989. Force work with everyone Winner but a "solution" based on force does not last forever, only as long as the balance of power remain unchanged

 

[RedRalph]

Israel ends blockade of Gaza -> Hamas responds with killing 8 innocent young people, people like you or me.
.

do you know how many people they killed inGaza before they pulled out?

 

[Winner]

yeah, that's because they are members of the arab unter-rasse

If you say so, I won't argue with you

do you know how many people they killed inGaza before they pulled out?

No and I don't care. Israelis don't attack civilian targets without reason. If the Palestinians didn't use civilian infrastructure for terrorism, they wouldn't be targeted.

Palestinians, especially those in Gaza, act in a totally self-destructive way. They had an unique opportunity after the Israeli pull out to forge lasting peace with Israel. That's something anybody with half a brain would do - except Palestinians, who elected terrorists and started another campaign of terror against Israel. They deserve to be punished for that. Israel should crush them with such a force they'd finally come to their sense.

 

[Gecko1]

No and I don't care. Israelis don't attack civilian targets without reason. If the Palestinians didn't use civilian infrastructure for terrorism, they wouldn't be targeted.

Palestinians, especially those in Gaza, act in a totally self-destructive way. They had unique opportunity after the Israeli pull out to forge lasting peace with Israel. That's something anybody with half a brain would do - except Palestinians, who elected terrorists and started another campaign of terror against Israel. They deserve to be punished for that. Israel should crush them with such a force they'd finally come to their sense.

When a smart American president finally notices how much of a liability Israel is, then the Israelies will be crushed.

 

[Winner]

When a smart American president finally notices how much of a liability Israel is, then the Israelies will be crushed.

Dream on, Mr. Israel-hater.

 

[RedRalph]

No and I don't care. Israelis don't attack civilian targets without reason. If the Palestinians didn't use civilian infrastructure for terrorism, they wouldn't be targeted.

so you indemnify Israel from any action it takes? Its incapable of doing wrong? If civilians are killed by Israel, regardless of circumstance, then by Winner's definition, it was for a good reason?

 

[holy king]

so you indemnify Israel from any action it takes? Its incapable of doing wrong? If civilians are killed by Israel, regardless of circumstance, then by Winner's definition, it was for a good reason?

because you cant negotiate with arabs, what did you not get?

 

[RedRalph]

because you cant negotiate with arabs, what did you not get?

I think it that context, its generally pronounced AY-rabs

 

[Ecofarm]

Isarel taking palestinian land for free:

The government confiscated over 85 percent of the land of the Bedouin Palestinians of the Negev Desert (55) and concentrated the remaining Bedouins into small, largely uncultivable nearby areas. (56)
All land was confiscated from those Palestinians who were refugees beyond the 1949 armistice lines. Of the land belonging to the Palestinians who remained, 65 percent had been confiscated by the mid-1950s. (58) In 1954, the value of land taken from the Palestinians was estimated at 100 million Palestinian pounds; including stone quarries, 10,000 acres of vineyards, 25,000 acres of citrus groves, 10,000 business establishments, 95 percent of what became Israel's olive groves, and 50,000 apartments. (59) Of the 859,000 Palestinians who lived within the territory on the Israeli side of the 1949 armistice lines, 684,000 lost their homes and their property. (60)
The government of Israel emptied about 400 Palestinian towns and villages. (61) It demolished many of them and planted forests to eradicate all traces of habitation. (62) One of the highest ranking Israeli officials (Moshe Dayan, former Defense Minister), referring to Zionist land acquisition both before and after 1948, said there was not a single settlement in Israel "which was not built on the site of a previous Arab settlement." (63)

Source plz.