Harry Turtledove- Great War/American Empire series

[Roundman]

Does anyone here read the Harry Turtledove alternate history series The American Empire? If you haven't,

POSSIBLE SPOILERS POSSIBLE SPOILERS POSSIBLE SPOILERS

its all based on the idea that a Confederate Officer (who lost his orders in real life) did not lose his orders. Therefore the Union did not know the battle plan for Antitem and lost the battle, and later the civil war. The USA and the CSA hated each other ever since. The CSA formed a close relationship with France and Britain; the USA formed a close relationship with Germany. WW1 broke out in 1914. It ended in 1918, with the US and Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman empire winning. The US occupied Canada and incorporated a few states from the CSA. Germany took Luxembourg and some French land. Anyhow, After WW1 a Fascist group called the Freedom Party took power in The CSA, Oswald Mosely was a powerful figure in Britain, and the Action Francaise installed a monarch in France. The latest book ended in 1941, with France and Britain attacking Germany and the CSA invading the USA.

I was thinking that that would be a cool scenario to make. If anyone knows about the series that I am talking about, post something to this thread and maybe we can get some ideas started.

 

[mrtn]

Roundman, you should have left some Spoiler Space at least. If someone hasn't read the books they don't want to, now, if you have already said that the Butler is the Murderer (metaphorically speaking).
I've read them, and like them, but have too much on my plate already to help with a scenario.

 

[Ozymandias]

I've always thought a mod along those lines would be fun, even before Turtledove came along

I'm fairly insanely busy right now but I'm happy to throw out some thoughts etc.

I think Turtledove got the sides of a WW1 slugfest with a CSA & USA down pretty well, with some minor caveats.

Where I feel he actually blows it is in the nature of the war in North America. Just as in the ACW, we're talking about a front line, just between the CSA and USA, of some 1200 KM -- which, for the record, is about the distance from Berlin to Moscow.

Personally, I suspect:

(1) that both the USA and CSA populations of 1914 wouldn't have been quite as enthusiastic of "total war" as their European counterparts -- meaning mobilization levels would have been proportionally less than 1865.

(2) trench warfare probably wouldn't have happened much in N America simply due to the distances involved (except in isolated cases, as in the eastern theater in 1865) -- although Verdun-style fortresses are certainly a possibility.

(3) despite point (2) both the CSA and USA did -- and would have -- developed a much healthier respect for defensive warfare than the Europeans and all their variations of "guerre a l'outrance". (sp?) Look for mobile troops that dig in quickly and a force structure with an early fondness for maxim guns, armored cars, and airships.

(4) with the increased industrialization of the South, I suspect that, although "formal" slavery would still exist, some uneasy state more akin to a hybrid of Russian-style serfdom and capitalism-at-its-worst industrial labor would have been the lot of most African-Confederate-Americans. Legally in bondage; yet actually earning dismal wages in factories (hint: CSA "improvements" can be structured accordingly, trading off living conditions -- happiness -- for productivity).

Just my initial 2 cents for now.

-Oz

 

[warpstorm]

mrtn, Roundman didn't really give many spoilers. The orders plot twist happens in the first page or so. The overall flow of the 'history' can be gleaned just by looking at the pictures on the book covers and the map that appears at the beginning of each book. I consider these more as defining the setting rather than telling much of the story. A spoiler would be something like Abe Lincoln is a *spoiler*. On second thought, read it if you want to know.

 

[MarineCorps]

Good books read the series now reading the squeal series to that series. It would be a cool mod. I just wish they would make a movie.

 

[mrtn]

warpstorm, I didn't read Roundmans post that carefully, as I have read the books already. I was just looking out for others, and saw something about "The latest book ended in 1941".
I have read most of Dr Turtledove's books, 35 or so. It's kinda funny he pops up in three forums in a couple of days, in that *other* forum, and in the World History forum here at CFC.
I blame the Random Number Generator.

 

[Azale]

uum, me and emu were going to do a project based on the American Empire series...we have finished the map and are waiting on Conquests

but you do yours too, maybe we can make this a little competition

 

[Kal-el]

seems like the CSA would be ripe for a communist revolution.

 

[Wyrmshadow]

I finished the newest book in the series last week. A lot of the units the USA used could just be transplanted from German units. The newest fighter aircraft that was used was a copy of the german albatros, the AV7 sounds like the kinds of barrels that were used with the CSA opting for more british rhomboid tanks, and even the description of the helmets worn sounds like a fritz style helm. Green-grey vs Butternut??

 

[MarineCorps]

I have no clue what they look like. Oddly enough when ever I try to picture what the barrels looked like I just think of barrels. Althrough one unit in the squeal series sounds like the French FT-7

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by MarineCorps
I have no clue what they look like.

That's why we're glad to have people like Wyrmshadow around

 

[Wyrmshadow]

Well I had just made it a point to play close attention to the descriptions in the books so that I could have an idea of what everything looked like. The descriptions are there, but they can be vague. What you must do is try to find American and German units that could fill those descriptions. I remember the US barrel beeing described as having vission slits in a little pilot house on top of the main body, much as the AV7. The confederates were plainly described as using british design tanks. Not too many new units would have to be found to fill these niches. Infact Ripptide is making a number of ww1 units (he's got a secret stash of high quality models somewhere), atleast 10 armored vehicles.

 

[MarineCorps]

Hmmmm, I've downloaded several of them they are pretty good, Wyrm whatever happened to the AC-130 idea?

 

[Constantine]

I've actually started one with PTW with whats eventually going to be the world filled. I've already placed the USA, CSA, Canada, Mexico.

 

[Constantine]

I'll post some screenshots of America. Please remeber this is extreme Beta I havent fine tuned the units but I am trying to keep it close to the Book.

whats the latest book called i dont recall??


Mid West?Missispi(sp)

Eastern CSA/USA

 

[MarineCorps]

Originally posted by Constantine
whats the latest book called i dont recall?

What for the squeal series or the first series, the latest one for the Great war series is called Breakthroughs.

 

[warpstorm]

That is a good question. There is more than one major war in the series.

 

[Junzi Nicuzn]

How Few Remain

The Great War: American Front
The Great War: Walk In Hell
The Great War: Breakthroughs

American Empire: Blood & Iron
American Empire: The Center Cannot Hold
American Empire: The Victorious Opposition

 

[computerdude113]

Two things, the first one is that this sounds like it could make a very fun mod to play with, esp. when COnquest comes out and we get fixed alliances. Second question, Constantine, where did you get that map!

 

[warpstorm]

I agree, I think fixed alliances would be needed to make this scenario work right. Luckily, that isn't far away.