Terxpahseyton
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I think youtube organizes comments also based on responses. Which often means that trolls are the top comments after they incited a little below-comment flame war.
Has Web 2.0 made things really better?
- Thread starter Tahuti
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KevinLancaster
Prince
Yeah. I don't think Google ever wants to change it either, the head of Google Plus resigned I believe, it was his pet project, it got integrated into everything so they can't just take it back but Google admitted that it wasn't that great, and it seems like they're keeping it anyway since it works in the sense that even though it isn't better than Facebook, it's somewhat comparable, and they don't have to keep pouring any money into it or an alternative.
aelf
Ashen One
Sometimes the stupid is also quite funny. If we're going to complain that looking at entertaining stuff is a waste of time, then we might as well complain about the media in general.
KevinLancaster
Prince
Don't many people already do that? Is it "wrong" to?
A lot of times the stupid can just be stupid.
aelf
Ashen One
Wrong to complain about the media wasting people's time? Well, no, you can certainly complain. But complaining about it also kind of a waste of time, really.
KevinLancaster
Prince
aelf
Ashen One
Then it would make no sense to complain about entertainment being a waste of time.
Timsup2nothin
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If you have a website, blog, or some such it is really hard not to put on some sort of traffic counter and find out that no one is reading the crap that you spew. If you spew in the comments of a heavily trafficked site it is much easier to pretend that you are getting attention.
Tahuti
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Essentially, the two are almost the same. 'Web 2.0' is basically about WWW having turned into one social network. Now, I don't think that all social media is bad, and I am a prolific Facebook user myself. However, I am really careful what I view and like on Facebook and what not. Given my views on WWW, it should be no surprise that I am quite acutely aware of FB's flaws.
Can't argue with that either. You have inspired me to look for a comment blocker which I just have installed as a matter of fact.
plarq
Crazy forever
From the dawn of public accessible internet, the No.1 property of Internet users is anonymity. People usually develop their "second identity" or "netizen" status, and could maintain their communication without the danger of damaging their real lives.
The SNS and all that jazz changed that. You are mostly under your real identity when you operate the Internet. If you want to share something, you share to everybody you're connected with. Since one's connection could be very heterogeneous, the uniform "net identity" is harmful to people who want to show different contents to different people with different identities.
The SNS and all that jazz changed that. You are mostly under your real identity when you operate the Internet. If you want to share something, you share to everybody you're connected with. Since one's connection could be very heterogeneous, the uniform "net identity" is harmful to people who want to show different contents to different people with different identities.
Indeed. I've only in the last 2ish years started visiting <unmentionable website> because it's one of the only places that haven't fallen to de-anonymization and general Web 2.0 crap. CFC has been decently consistent too, but there's still a lot of circlejerking and such crap that is built around the identities we keep here.
I feel Twitter is one of the worst things that has ever happened to the Net, Facebook is nice for keeping in touch with people you know... But that bridge where you use your real life persona to act with people you only know on the net. I really don't like it or the mentality it feeds.
I feel Twitter is one of the worst things that has ever happened to the Net, Facebook is nice for keeping in touch with people you know... But that bridge where you use your real life persona to act with people you only know on the net. I really don't like it or the mentality it feeds.
Tahuti
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I use Twitter for my business. It's pretty useful to place business related announcements there to get them heard!
Twitter is however unmeasurably stupid for everything else.
Timsup2nothin
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Since I know little to nothing about Twitter I have to ask...
If it wasn't for the immeasurably stupid, and massive, usage to build the base would it still work for your business? From my distant view I was guessing that the pointless usage is what produces the environment that gets your business announcements a hearing, but that is just speculation.
You gotta be careful that this misses all the demographics that don't use twitter.
Timsup2nothin
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This is a problem no matter how you market. The key (which is admittedly difficult to accomplish) is to make your message become a pass on item, so that the people who are not directly exposed still get it.
In the town where I used to live there is an absolute marketing genius. He produced billboard campaigns that created mysteries that the entire town would be talking about. By the time the final boards went up and revealed what was being sold even people who had never driven past a single board were speculating about what it would be. Plus, hardly anyone just drove past billboards like they weren't even there, as is fairly typical, so it benefited everyone who advertised on billboards.
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I agree with Marla Singer that social networks and ubiquitous commenting do encourage quantity rather than quality. Even on reputable newspapers' comment systems you often only get a lot of low-quality comments and little to no debate. And while occasionally insightful comments can be found on more quality-focused publications' comment systems, the times I've seen a useful comment on somewhere like YouTube could probably be counted on one hand. I can only think of one site where I routinely read the comments and gain insights from them, and it's a fairly quality-focused site to begin with, with a non-mass-market target audience.
Perhaps the comment-like, Web 2.0-ish system I've found most helpful personally is Stack Overflow. It's fundamentally a comment-like Q&A system, with a focus on quality and finding the "correct" answer, to the point that most topics that don't have an objective correct answer and locked or removed. Anyone can answer, and while not infallible, it really is a great resource for a programmer.
Arguably, the more advanced aspects of Web 2.0 that have had a more definitive positive impact. Things like Google Docs for collaborative document creation (and it's more cool when two people are simultaneously editing a document), interactive charts and documents on news sites, collaborative wikis with rich document-creating abilities for the workplace, and so forth. It's somewhat a question of how you define Web 2.0 as well. Are Internet radio and TV sites Web 2.0 since they would've been difficult or impossible to do well in the late '90s, or are they Web 1.0 since they generally don't have much active user interaction? If you define Web 2.0 by the technologies that allow more functionality, the advances are more compelling than if it's just user contribution.
If you define it by user contribution, there's also the question of what the cutoff is. CFC does allow a fair amount of user interaction, after all - forums, uploads/downloads, some degree of file storage, and, though poorly utilized, social groups and a Wiki. So is it Web 2.0, or Web 1.5? And there have been forums and BBSs long before CFC.
Still, many of the times I'm most fascinated with things on the Internet these days remain when I discover a Web 1.0 site that's a bastion of hidden in-depth knowledge. Other times it's exploring obscure corners of the Internet - finding some low-traffic FTP server with an abundance of old files straight from the '90s, for example. While I came to the Web too late to experience its early iterations, there's something satisfying about the uncommercialized, knowledge and sharing focus of those old sites.
And I'm okay with CFC being perpetually in 2007. That was when I joined the site, and it's a small comfort that it's almost the same now as it was then. True, it probably does need to change some over time to remain relevant, but as one of the few sites that's kept me coming back for 7+ years, it's doing something right as-is.
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Edit: I found another site like I mentioned in the second-to-last paragraph today, and nerd-sniped myself fairly well in the process. Went to dmoz.org and dug into their human-maintained web directory, since search engines aren't great at finding completely non-search-optimized old websites. Found a plain-old Web 1.0 HTML with no comment abilities nor JavaScript, nor I believe any CSS, but great content. Kept following links. Hard to beat a 15-year-old website about topics you're interested in, even if it does look like it's from 1999.
Perhaps the comment-like, Web 2.0-ish system I've found most helpful personally is Stack Overflow. It's fundamentally a comment-like Q&A system, with a focus on quality and finding the "correct" answer, to the point that most topics that don't have an objective correct answer and locked or removed. Anyone can answer, and while not infallible, it really is a great resource for a programmer.
Arguably, the more advanced aspects of Web 2.0 that have had a more definitive positive impact. Things like Google Docs for collaborative document creation (and it's more cool when two people are simultaneously editing a document), interactive charts and documents on news sites, collaborative wikis with rich document-creating abilities for the workplace, and so forth. It's somewhat a question of how you define Web 2.0 as well. Are Internet radio and TV sites Web 2.0 since they would've been difficult or impossible to do well in the late '90s, or are they Web 1.0 since they generally don't have much active user interaction? If you define Web 2.0 by the technologies that allow more functionality, the advances are more compelling than if it's just user contribution.
If you define it by user contribution, there's also the question of what the cutoff is. CFC does allow a fair amount of user interaction, after all - forums, uploads/downloads, some degree of file storage, and, though poorly utilized, social groups and a Wiki. So is it Web 2.0, or Web 1.5? And there have been forums and BBSs long before CFC.
Still, many of the times I'm most fascinated with things on the Internet these days remain when I discover a Web 1.0 site that's a bastion of hidden in-depth knowledge. Other times it's exploring obscure corners of the Internet - finding some low-traffic FTP server with an abundance of old files straight from the '90s, for example. While I came to the Web too late to experience its early iterations, there's something satisfying about the uncommercialized, knowledge and sharing focus of those old sites.
And I'm okay with CFC being perpetually in 2007. That was when I joined the site, and it's a small comfort that it's almost the same now as it was then. True, it probably does need to change some over time to remain relevant, but as one of the few sites that's kept me coming back for 7+ years, it's doing something right as-is.
------------
Edit: I found another site like I mentioned in the second-to-last paragraph today, and nerd-sniped myself fairly well in the process. Went to dmoz.org and dug into their human-maintained web directory, since search engines aren't great at finding completely non-search-optimized old websites. Found a plain-old Web 1.0 HTML with no comment abilities nor JavaScript, nor I believe any CSS, but great content. Kept following links. Hard to beat a 15-year-old website about topics you're interested in, even if it does look like it's from 1999.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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Which is why I use a spreading strategy. I also some industry specific websites for instance, of which I notice that visits are augmented by twitter, though.
I never used twitter. Got an account, but not even (iirc) with my full name/surname.
Given that afaik one can just post tiny messages there, i do not see the point for anything other than making hashtags and getting + or - points to your post. Politicians seem to use it a lot, which sort of makes sense, but for most people it appears less useful.
Also: they bowed to Erdo Sultan's demands to take out some pages/other, when even FB did not.
Given that afaik one can just post tiny messages there, i do not see the point for anything other than making hashtags and getting + or - points to your post. Politicians seem to use it a lot, which sort of makes sense, but for most people it appears less useful.
Also: they bowed to Erdo Sultan's demands to take out some pages/other, when even FB did not.
mitsho
Deity
You seem to focus on the YouTube comments as Web 2.0, but may I ask - aren't the YouTube Videos much more web 2.0? After all, if interactivity is key, then giving the ability to 'ordinary' People to share created Content is the key of web 2.0? Sites like Soundcloud or even Facebook much more than silly comments below Content (may it be a Video or a newspaper article).
Because we don't have to argue that Internet comments don't add much value to a discussion.
(And re twitter, it works because it does one Thing exceptionally well, allow for direct and quick comments between professionals or up to and down from a celebrity/professional. mail takes too Long, but you still need to 'build' your Network on twitter to get the most out of it).
Because we don't have to argue that Internet comments don't add much value to a discussion.
(And re twitter, it works because it does one Thing exceptionally well, allow for direct and quick comments between professionals or up to and down from a celebrity/professional. mail takes too Long, but you still need to 'build' your Network on twitter to get the most out of it).
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