Have you ever cheated *with* somebody?

[Winner]

I am not sure if this is the right way to ask this question in English. What I mean is, have you ever been in a relationship (romantic, sexual) with someone who at that time wasn't single?

No matter what your personal experience is:

1. do you consider it morally reprehensible to desire someone who is not single *and* act on these feelings?
2. who do you think is primarily to blame, if there *is* anyone to blame? The one who is cheating, or the other person who is a willing participant in such an affair?
3. what if this person (C) is fine with his/her "partner"(A) being unwilling to terminate his/her existing relationship (with B)? What does it say about those who are involved?*

(*EDIT: since people seem to have trouble understanding what I mean for some reason (I hope my English isn't *that* bad), I should probably clarify it some more: Person A is in a long-term relationship with B. Person C starts an illicit affair with A who is thus cheating on B. C also knows that A is unwilling to end his/her relationship with B. Does it make sense now?)

Please be civil when discussing these questions or related issues which may come up

 

[azzaman333]

I am not sure if this is the right way to ask this question in English. What I mean is, have you ever been in a relationship (romantic, sexual) with someone who at that time wasn't single?

I have never been in such a relationship.

No matter what your personal experience is:

do you consider it morally reprehensible to desire someone who is not single *and* act on these feelings?

If you know they're in a relationship and openly pursue them, you're a dick.

who do you think is primarily to blame, if there *is* anyone to blame? The one who is cheating, or the other person who is a willing participant in such an affair?

The person in the relationship is primarily to blame, the willing participant is also partially to blame.


Have no idea what the 3rd question was asking.

 

[wolfigor]

who do you think is primarily to blame, if there *is* anyone to blame? The one who is cheating, or the other person who is a willing participant in such an affair?

Primary to "blame" is the cheater: at the end of the day he or she is the person that is breaking a commitment.
The willing participant has no formal or informal commitment/promise to prevent a relation.

do you consider it morally reprehensible to desire someone who is not single *and* act on these feelings?

Here I am not completely sure, I think it depends on the context.
There is no problem, in my view, to desire somebody who is not single.
When the desire mutate from "potential" into "active" flirting then things change, especially if the cheated person is somebody you know and maybe consider a friend... But that's a special case I would say.

Lets consider the generic case (you don't personally know the cheated one).
I think it's fair to desire somebody else partner and maybe even actively flirting.
However one should be considerate and if the object of your desire asks you to stop flirting, then you should do so.
People could be in a "weak" time of their relation, something they could recover from it if there no external influences.

The "polite" way should be to retreat when the object of your desire tells you to stop tempting her (or him).

So far I assumed that the "willing participant" is not in love with the "cheater" (I use these terms just for convenience, no moral judgment attached).
Things are different if there are feelings beyond lust that are involved.

what if this person is fine with his/her "partner" being unwilling to terminate his/her existing relationship? What does it say about all the involved?

Do you mean the partner knows about the cheating but allow it to go ahead?
well... it really depends on the context.
They could be in a kind of open relationship or some other similar arrangement.
Imagine the case of a couple that are married, they really love each other, but they are not really sexually compatible.
Each one allows the other to find a partner outside the marriage... it seems completely crazy but it happens.

 

[tycoonist]

Yes, and its 6 months later, and everything is progressively going to crap in my life.

On the other hand, I love her, and I've never regretted it despite all the pain it put us both through.


In answer to the questions:
1. Well kinda. I knew that she was going through a rough time with her (now) ex, so I was kinda justified at first. When it continued as an affair, I guess that was worse morally. It didn't help that I was cheating as well with a girl I was semi-serious with.

2. I think the cheater. In the end, its their decision to screw up a relationship, not yours.

3. Yeah I dont really understand this one.


I'll say this because it saddens me sometimes how cheating is represented. It's not always just a lust/boredom thing. Sometimes its based on legitimate concerns in a relationship that aren't being addressed by the partner. Now, I agree it's not the best way to handle it, but not all cheaters are horrible people. Similarly for the people who they cheated with... In my case, I was totally crazy about this girl, and I've certainly treated her better than her boyfriend ever did.

 

[Winner]

If you know they're in a relationship and openly pursue them, you're a dick.

Why? If you have no commitment or responsibility to your desired person's partner (i.e. it is not your best friend or something), why should you care?

(I am playing the devil's advocate here, don't stone me.)

The person in the relationship is primarily to blame, the willing participant is also partially to blame.

Again, why? What it is to him/her? Why should pursuing their own feelings be considered wrong? In a darwinian sense, if the existing relationship between A and B is strong, nothing should ever happen and A should clearly rebuff C's advances. If A is willing to cheat on B, why should C be held responsible for the crappy nature of their relationship?

Have no idea what the 3rd question was asking.

I added a further explanation to the opening post.

Primary to "blame" is the cheater: at the end of the day he or she is the person that is breaking a commitment. The willing participant has no formal or informal commitment/promise to prevent a relation.

I think so as well. At least that is how it should be, theoretically. Practically, there are social issues involved. Even though C is essentially innocent, he/she will still be viewed in a negative light by other people? Why is that? Is it because he/she is seen as a 'disruptive agent' of some sort?

Here I am not completely sure, I think it depends on the context.
There is no problem, in my view, to desire somebody who is not single.
When the desire mutate from "potential" into "active" flirting then things change, especially if the cheated person is somebody you know and maybe consider a friend... But that's a special case I would say.

I agree that trying (for example) to seduce your friend's girlfriend is wrong and you deserve a fist in the mouth for that. But what if the cheated person is someone you don't know - perhaps C was only barely aware of B's existence when he/she started pursuing A.

I tend towards the position that the primary responsibility lies on A, not C.

Lets consider the generic case (you don't personally know the cheated one).
I think it's fair to desire somebody else partner and maybe even actively flirting.
However one should be considerate and if the object of your desire asks you to stop flirting, then you should do so.

People could be in a "weak" time of their relation, something they could recover from it if there no external influences.

The "polite" way should be to retreat when the object of your desire tells you to stop tempting her (or him).

What if the object of your desire (A) is all to willing to be tempted, even to start an illicit affair with you (C)? Is C stupid to participate in that? Should he/she restrain him/herself at the expense of his/her own feelings for A?

So far I assumed that the "willing participant" is not in love with the "cheater" (I use these terms just for convenience, no moral judgment attached).
Things are different if there are feelings beyond lust that are involved.

How would "love" between A and C change things? What if A loves both B and C?

Do you mean the partner knows about the cheating but allow it to go ahead?
well... it really depends on the context.

Not exactly, I clarified that in the OP.

In the particular case I am using as a model here, C knows that A won't leave B, and B knows that A is cheating, though he/she probably doesn't realize the full extent of it. Despite all that, B is unwilling to leave A either.

I am at a loss what to think about such situation, which is why I am throwing it for discussion here

 

[azzaman333]

Why? If you have no commitment or responsibility to your desired person's partner (i.e. it is not your best friend or something), why should you care?

(I am playing the devil's advocate here, don't stone me.)

The reason I wouldn't pursue someone already in a relationship is because if it happened to me, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Again, why? What it is to him/her? Why should pursuing their own feelings be considered wrong? In a darwinian sense, if the existing relationship between A and B is strong, nothing should ever happen and A should clearly rebuff C's advances. If A is willing to cheat on B, why should C be held responsible for the crappy nature of their relationship?

Attempting to put someone through misery for your own personal gain is an act that should be condemned. The target of your lust being in a less-than-perfect relationship doesn't give you permission to put their partner through the misery of being cheated on.

third question

I have absolutely no idea. That whole situation is messed up, as far as I can tell.

 

[Core Imposter]

When I was a young man I ran off with my best friend's wife, literally, and the cheap tart dumped me in Las Vegas (turns out she had an old flame there and was using me for transportation?). Whatever.

You can rationalize this however you want, and you will rationalize it but at the end of the day its moral failure by all and you can't escape the consequences of your actions. They follow you forever.

Couple of things I have picked up in a lifetime of mistakes.

First, if you know God and have a spiritual relationship and firm belief then its a little less likely that you will fall into this sort of trap. But only to a limited extent. Passion is like a flame, the heat invites you to warm your hands but once you look close you might not be able to look away. Better to keep your hands in your pockets.

The real value of having a spiritual life is finding a path to forgiving yourself for life's many sins on the one hand and on the other, being able to define sin. Since I've found God I've not lived sinless but when I've done wrong I knew sin for what is was. None of this stuff where people are caught out and are sorry for being caught but not for whatever it was they were doing. Having an inescapable, undeniable standard of behavior makes it less likely to become a serial offender chiefly.

When this happened originally I blamed her for my behavior and could make a good case that she was to blame based on relevations of her actions before I knew her and based on her actions afterward, but that was all crap.

I acted miserably and would have had no complaint if skewered for my actions. My actions caused considerable pain and brought dishonor on me and my family.

I will not waste the time on trying to tell people not to engage in the process of justification. Those involved will find a way to justify themselves while in the heat of the moment. Some will even enter into years long affairs that are torture unto themselves. I'd say these are pretty much lost souls in a manner of speaking and act as a danger sign to those still traveling in the right lane of the road of life. Soft shoulders, rough ride.

 

[Winner]

The reason I wouldn't pursue someone already in a relationship is because if it happened to me, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Hm, the golden rule argument - it holds some water. On the other hand, if this happened to me, I'd probably be more angry at my cheating b***h of a girlfriend than at the guy she's cheating with, unless he was my friend, brother, or someone else I trusted.

Attempting to put someone through misery for your own personal gain is an act that should be condemned. The target of your lust being in a less-than-perfect relationship doesn't give you permission to put their partner through the misery of being cheated on.

As tycoonist said, it is totally simplistic to assume that people cheat only because of lust. If C genuinely loves A, and A loves him back, why should C hold back and deprive him/herself of happiness? It is up to A to be honest with B and behave responsibly.

I have absolutely no idea. That whole situation is messed up, as far as I can tell.

That it is, I'd hate it if I were involved

 

[azzaman333]

As tycoonist said, it is totally simplistic to assume that people cheat only because of lust. If C genuinely loves A, and A loves him back, why should C hold back and deprive him/herself of happiness? It is up to A to be honest with B and behave responsibly.

I would contend that they don't know if it's lust or love until they've established a relationship, and that A and B are generally in the best position to judge how good their relationship is, rather than outsiders.

 

[Winner]

I'd say that if A and B had a solid relationship in which both were content, neither of them would even consider other people's advances. In other words, the very fact that A is willingly cheating is a sign the relationship with B is lacking in some regard, even though A wants to maintain it and B lacks the self-respect to dump A and be done with it.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I am not sure if this is the right way to ask this question in English. What I mean is, have you ever been in a relationship (romantic, sexual) with someone who at that time wasn't single?

Yes, and given the opportunity, I'll do it again.
If she's not married, doesn't have kids and her boyfriend isn't a friend of mine she's fair game.
The guy would also be well within his rights to punch me in the face, but hat's a different matter.

do you consider it morally reprehensible to desire someone who is not single *and* act on these feelings?

No, these things happen.

who do you think is primarily to blame, if there *is* anyone to blame? The one who is cheating, or the other person who is a willing participant in such an affair?

I'd say the one who cheats on his partner is usually to blame, but it also depends on who initiates it.

what if this person (C) is fine with his/her "partner"(A) being
unwilling to terminate his/her existing relationship (with B)? What does it say about those who are involved?*

It means C doesn't love B and just wants sex, which is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Commodore]

I am not sure if this is the right way to ask this question in English. What I mean is, have you ever been in a relationship (romantic, sexual) with someone who at that time wasn't single?

Yes I have, but I didn't find out until after we had sex. She told me her husband left her with the kid without any explaination and I found out later that her husband was in fact deployed to Iraq at the time. Seeing as I was also a soldier at the time, I felt absolutely horrible even though I had been deceived as well.

I absolutely hate the idea of a spouse cheating on their husband/wife while the husband/wife is deployed to a warzone. I understand people have needs and it's hard for them to be separated from their spouse for so long, but there is still no excuse for cheating on someone who is sacrificing so much.

 

[attackfighter]

Men are cheaters by nature. If you allow a single woman to monopolise your time and sexual energy, then you are lowering the amount of off-spring you can produce. Therefore it's prudent to cheat as much as possible.

 

[downtown]

[*]do you consider it morally reprehensible to desire someone who is not single *and* act on these feelings?

I sure do. I think trying to get anybody to break a serious commitment to another person (dishonestly) is a bad idea. Plus, it's fairly devastating when it happens to you.

Remember, if somebody will cheat *with* you, there is no guarantee they won't cheat *ON* you.

[*]who do you think is primarily to blame, if there *is* anyone to blame? The one who is cheating, or the other person who is a willing participant in such an affair?

The one who is actually in the relationship has the most blame, but both share fault.

[*]what if this person (C) is fine with his/her "partner"(A) being unwilling to terminate his/her existing relationship (with B)? What does it say about those who are involved?*

That they're kind of creeps?

 

[Winner]

Men are cheaters by nature. If you allow a single woman to monopolise your time and sexual energy, then you are lowering the amount of off-spring you can produce. Therefore it's prudent to cheat as much as possible.

That's bull****. How old are you?

 

[attackfighter]

That's bull****. How old are you?

So you think spending all of your time and sexual energy on a single woman maximises the number of off-spring you can have? I think the better question is: how old are you?

 

[Winner]

I sure do. I think trying to get anybody to break a serious commitment to another person (dishonestly) is a bad idea. Plus, it's fairly devastating when it happens to you.

But then again, the ultimate responsibility lies with the person A. It's his/her choice. C may be in love with A, or just desire A sexually, it doesn't matter that much - A is the one who says either yes or no to the offer. I understand that B may be angry, but there is no commitment on the part of C to care about B's emotional well-being.

Remember, if somebody will cheat *with* you, there is no guarantee they won't cheat *ON* you.

Indeed, it's a double-edged sword.

That they're kind of creeps?

Yeah, it's definitely unconventional

So you think spending all of your time and sexual energy on a single woman maximises the number of off-spring you can have? I think the better question is: how old are you?

27, thanks for asking. I just remember I used to say similar crap when I was like 16 and had no idea what a proper relationship is.

Newsflash: I am not a nazi and my goal in life isn't to impregnate as many women as possible in hopes of spreading my "superior" genes. I'd be quite content to spend my life with one woman, if I loved her and she was worth it.

Yes I have, but I didn't find out until after we had sex. She told me her husband left her with the kid without any explaination and I found out later that her husband was in fact deployed to Iraq at the time. Seeing as I was also a soldier at the time, I felt absolutely horrible even though I had been deceived as well.

I absolutely hate the idea of a spouse cheating on their husband/wife while the husband/wife is deployed to a warzone. I understand people have needs and it's hard for them to be separated from their spouse for so long, but there is still no excuse for cheating on someone who is sacrificing so much.

I'd say it's different from the general situation I am describing here, at least in the sense that you felt some sort of connection with the other guy (B) by virtue of both of you being soliders (and thus sharing similar experiences).

In any case, you were deceived as well, so it doesn't apply.

 

[Commodore]

Men are cheaters by nature. If you allow a single woman to monopolise your time and sexual energy, then you are lowering the amount of off-spring you can produce. Therefore it's prudent to cheat as much as possible.

Except stats show that women cheat about the same as men. So if men and women cheat at roughly the same rate I don't see how you can say cheating is in a man's nature and not a woman's. It seems it would be a more accurate statement to say that cheating is just a part of human nature. Or, better yet, that it's not a part of our nature and it just depends on the personality of the individual.

I'm inclined to lean towards the latter since the number of both men and women who cheat is well below 50%.

 

[attackfighter]

Except stats show that women cheat about the same as men. So if men and women cheat at roughly the same rate I don't see how you can say cheating is in a man's nature and not a woman's. It seems it would be a more accurate statement to say that cheating is just a part of human nature. Or, better yet, that it's not a part of our nature and it just depends on the personality of the individual.

I'm inclined to lean towards the latter since the number of both men and women who cheat is well below 50%.

Women have only been "cheating" since marriage was invented and imposed on them. It's hardly in their nature to cheat - it's only when confronted with the shackles of civilization in which they try to escape.

 

[downtown]

So you think spending all of your time and sexual energy on a single woman maximises the number of off-spring you can have? I think the better question is: how old are you?

Because it isn't 1200 anymore and I don't care if I have 30 kids?