Farm?
Help me win Immortal more consistently!
- Thread starter Zaddy
- Start date
And yes, definitely this. I would say the biggest key tech in the early game is BW, because it allows both whipping and chopping. Another key tech is pottery, for cottages and granaries. These allow you to set up your empire properly, other things are just a bonus.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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BW is certainly good, but i would have gone Agri - AH here.
Cows are a much needed early power tile in this posi, and your worker would have enuf to do with pasture - roads towards stone - floodplains farm eventually for stone city.
Oasis makes spending beakers on AH less painful as well.
Mecca looks strong, but in reality floodplains and all those clams come in play later, cows could help very soon after corn has been farmed.
Cows are a much needed early power tile in this posi, and your worker would have enuf to do with pasture - roads towards stone - floodplains farm eventually for stone city.
Oasis makes spending beakers on AH less painful as well.
Mecca looks strong, but in reality floodplains and all those clams come in play later, cows could help very soon after corn has been farmed.
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Farm?
ah..for some reason I thought he went Mining first. Yep, AG definitely first here, as My says AH probably best for super cows to power first settler. Worker has plenty to do then with an FP farm and roads. FP farm will be good for Stonesville early on.
@Zaddy Thoughts?
Two major things, for a shadow game, you really should put a hold when big decisions such as next tech comes. Here there was some discussion about perhaps AH before mining to be had.
Secondly, your warror moved in a very inefficient manner. I wanted warrior NE from the get go, I can understand the pull to make one move SE before settling first though, but after that, the warrior should have zoomed of NE, alternatively been put on a SE->SE->SE trajectory.
When first thinking about early warrior or scout movements, you should have in mind capitals T5 culture, so that no warrior turns are wasted unfogging things you will unfog with culture soon anyway.
I would most likely have gone for BW here, and with no good city2 spot yet I think it makes sense to just continue growing capital on warriors (or possibly some SH failgold).
It might delay first settler, but the extra production from being at pop4 (or pop5) will speed up the second settler/worker (possibly whipped).
Two workers after the first settler is one option, farming those floodplains takes ages and when chopping pyramids abit later they will be needed anyway.
On the stone is certainly a tempting place for second city, but I think NW of stone has it's merits too. I think it would mean one less GPT in upkeep, and it requires one less road. But main point would be that all floodplains and the oasis would be within that citys reach. I think capital will be overloaded with conflicting objectives as it is.
But really, we need to know whats NE of silk and a few tiles further up along the coast.
Two major things, for a shadow game, you really should put a hold when big decisions such as next tech comes. Here there was some discussion about perhaps AH before mining to be had.
Secondly, your warror moved in a very inefficient manner. I wanted warrior NE from the get go, I can understand the pull to make one move SE before settling first though, but after that, the warrior should have zoomed of NE, alternatively been put on a SE->SE->SE trajectory.
When first thinking about early warrior or scout movements, you should have in mind capitals T5 culture, so that no warrior turns are wasted unfogging things you will unfog with culture soon anyway.
I would most likely have gone for BW here, and with no good city2 spot yet I think it makes sense to just continue growing capital on warriors (or possibly some SH failgold).
It might delay first settler, but the extra production from being at pop4 (or pop5) will speed up the second settler/worker (possibly whipped).
Two workers after the first settler is one option, farming those floodplains takes ages and when chopping pyramids abit later they will be needed anyway.
On the stone is certainly a tempting place for second city, but I think NW of stone has it's merits too. I think it would mean one less GPT in upkeep, and it requires one less road. But main point would be that all floodplains and the oasis would be within that citys reach. I think capital will be overloaded with conflicting objectives as it is.
But really, we need to know whats NE of silk and a few tiles further up along the coast.
Zaddy
Prince
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Okay, lots of good advise here, thanks all for offering their thoughts!
On reflection, the criticism about my scouting pattern is totally right! I sorta just tune out during the starting portions of the game and (if it makes sense) build a worker and move my warrior around the cap, but really I could've been pushing out more, and moving southwards after seeing the coast was a pretty big misplay. Especially seeing Justin means I needed to see where his borders were because he's close.
I can see the argument for Animal Husbandry here. My thought was to go Mining > BW while roading towards the stone and having a settler claim it, then AH after. I would probably settle in a pattern like this:
The stone city and a city to the north both have farmable floodplains for food. Not exactly great but we're sort of short on good sites besides the cow city. The surrounding land isn't exactly blowing me away right now!
@krikav yep, I probably should've stopped after Agri was finished, you're right. In the future I'll try to better identify good stopping points
Cheers to everyone for the feedback, I'll wait for more feedback before I continue!
On reflection, the criticism about my scouting pattern is totally right! I sorta just tune out during the starting portions of the game and (if it makes sense) build a worker and move my warrior around the cap, but really I could've been pushing out more, and moving southwards after seeing the coast was a pretty big misplay. Especially seeing Justin means I needed to see where his borders were because he's close.
I can see the argument for Animal Husbandry here. My thought was to go Mining > BW while roading towards the stone and having a settler claim it, then AH after. I would probably settle in a pattern like this:
Spoiler :
The stone city and a city to the north both have farmable floodplains for food. Not exactly great but we're sort of short on good sites besides the cow city. The surrounding land isn't exactly blowing me away right now!
@krikav yep, I probably should've stopped after Agri was finished, you're right. In the future I'll try to better identify good stopping points
Cheers to everyone for the feedback, I'll wait for more feedback before I continue!
Harv
Emperor
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Well, you seem to be doing a lot better than those posting 150 turns, then ask for advice.
“.....while defeated warriors go to battle first, and then seek to win”
-Sun Tsu
As for myself, I still have to play out a bunch of openings to see how they play out.
“.....while defeated warriors go to battle first, and then seek to win”
-Sun Tsu
As for myself, I still have to play out a bunch of openings to see how they play out.
Zaddy
Prince
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I had brought it down to the bottom of the coast (a mistake) and I'm now pushing upwards to scout the silk area. Is having it in my borders a mistake?
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Yes, well..I think you already grasped that that area did not need scouting at present..heck the border pop will reveal it anyway. Point is that taking a path through your borders like that is a) slow for scouting b) not spawnbusting. When your are outside scouting you are essentially kinda partially spawnbusting as well.
Granted you should not have backtracked in the first place, but given where you were i would just head due E to scout or take a more diagonal approach NE. Probably look to stand on the forested grasshill 1E of stone for now until the settler arrives to keep things clear.
Anyway, keep your units outside your borders.
Zaddy
Prince
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Okay, makes sense! Thanks for pointing that out.
Tobiyogi
King
I must admit that spiritual with a shot on an early religion IS something. I grew on a warrior, went fish/min/bw, next thing work boat and worker only at size 3 who chopped a 2. workboat and then settler at size 4. Masonry/poly/mono gave me Judaism. On the cost of delaying agri/pott/AH. I hope it is worth the detour. Very unusual start and not the most representative shadow game but i like it a lot.
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Tobiyogi
King
Also worker steal on a quite distant neighbor, luckily the worker survived on the way back “home“.
Btw, I have not seen a single barb archer, but right techs are given. It's Immortal, right?
With the fact of running my own religion no-one likes me at the moment but i can easily switch out to get OB.
With so much food in Mecca, the Madrasa with +2 priest slots will be very useful. Sorry, Arabia, that i qualified you as one of the worst Civs recently..
Btw, I have not seen a single barb archer, but right techs are given. It's Immortal, right?
With the fact of running my own religion no-one likes me at the moment but i can easily switch out to get OB.
Spoiler :
With so much food in Mecca, the Madrasa with +2 priest slots will be very useful. Sorry, Arabia, that i qualified you as one of the worst Civs recently..
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Tobiyogi
King
You could also make a case for Agri/AH, in order to start on the settler at size 2. But first of all, I don't see an overly attractive spot here and secondly, I was going into that game with the attempt to reach an early religion (what I did not try anymore since playing prince/monarch ....). In that case, commerce is important and production can wait - so I tried to get at least 2 workboats online before starting on the settler (settler at size 4 enables to work 6-8 extra 
that's huge!)
My second city was then placed here and got a huge culture boost and free border pop almost instantly....
that's huge!)My second city was then placed here and got a huge culture boost and free border pop almost instantly....
Spoiler :
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Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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As mentioned some days ago, i would have gone Agri - AH with or without pigs
Cows are your best tile for settlers & workers, seeing if horsies are around is always useful, and overall finding animal tiles is very common.
BW makes more sense for high food starts like double corn, but let's not be blinded by clams or floodplains, those are not providing much food early.
Or covered in forests start, here you will want your ~6 mostly for Pyras, not early chopping.
Cows are your best tile for settlers & workers, seeing if horsies are around is always useful, and overall finding animal tiles is very common.
BW makes more sense for high food starts like double corn, but let's not be blinded by clams or floodplains, those are not providing much food early.
Or covered in forests start, here you will want your ~6 mostly for Pyras, not early chopping.
A city SW of stone looks somewhat nice and unloading also the oasis from Mecca is good reasoning I think. However once you reach masonry saving the worker turns not having to quarry is counting for quite alot.
Since you choose the BW path, there is less time to farm floodplains imho, I would prioritize farming the one NE of oasis, as that would be reachable from a possible fourth city 1N of silk. (One that could juggle pigs back and fourth with a third city that I would probably place NE of the pigs/SE of rice (that spot is so nice that it's worth risking pyramids for.)
I would chop the two grassland hills as they can be prepared with mines, but not much more than that.
At least 3 workers at "home" and a fourth one that is stationed up at pigs/floodplains city.
Perhaps settler (for stone city)->worker->worker->settler (leaves for pig city together with a worker, bringing down the total to 2 at home again)->worker.
Forward warrior should turn back NW and fogbust there. The warrior at home should move NE somewhere and take up post to help sequre pig/rice area.
I would delay settler to get a third warrior too, I see no urgency to get the second city extremly early (Really, what is stone city going to contribute with..? Claiming stone, building a worker for pyramids chopping and later help mature cottages), but I do see an urgency getting the second settler early (for that pig/floodplain spot!) and growing more first and getting another spawnbuster seems good imho.
Would be nice to know more about the southern region, but spawnbusting and securing what we do know would take priority if I played.
Since you choose the BW path, there is less time to farm floodplains imho, I would prioritize farming the one NE of oasis, as that would be reachable from a possible fourth city 1N of silk. (One that could juggle pigs back and fourth with a third city that I would probably place NE of the pigs/SE of rice (that spot is so nice that it's worth risking pyramids for.)
I would chop the two grassland hills as they can be prepared with mines, but not much more than that.
At least 3 workers at "home" and a fourth one that is stationed up at pigs/floodplains city.
Perhaps settler (for stone city)->worker->worker->settler (leaves for pig city together with a worker, bringing down the total to 2 at home again)->worker.
Forward warrior should turn back NW and fogbust there. The warrior at home should move NE somewhere and take up post to help sequre pig/rice area.
I would delay settler to get a third warrior too, I see no urgency to get the second city extremly early (Really, what is stone city going to contribute with..? Claiming stone, building a worker for pyramids chopping and later help mature cottages), but I do see an urgency getting the second settler early (for that pig/floodplain spot!) and growing more first and getting another spawnbuster seems good imho.
Would be nice to know more about the southern region, but spawnbusting and securing what we do know would take priority if I played.
