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History Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread VII

Discussion in 'World History' started by Plotinus, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    See here.

    I think the answer to daft's question is partly that the archaeological world is not convinced by the claims of the Mataha expedition, and partly that there is a vast amount of salt water beneath the surface of the site, making excavation a very difficult proposition.
     
  2. Cynovolans

    Cynovolans Not in my dimension.

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    The Mataha expedition didn't really find the structure at Hawara. An excavator found a large stone plateau near the pyramid at Hawara and believed it to be the foundation of the Herodotus's Labyrinth after the Ptolemies had quarried all the stone. The Mataha expedition use ground scanners to determine if the structure was a foundation or a roof, and they believe they found evidence of walls and rooms beneath the stone. The actual design of the structure is still unknown so we can't match it to Herodotus's description of the Labyrinth.

    Pyramids were basically giant "Loot me" signs, so later Pharaohs may have thought it was too much effort just to have valuables stolen by graverobbers. Most pyramids in Egypt were built during the Old and Middle Kingdoms. Pharaohs during the New Kingdom were buried in less conspicuous tombs in the Valley of the Kings.

    Later, Nubians began building pyramids and went crazy with it. I believe there are even more pyramids in Sudan than there are in Egypt.
     
  3. Cynovolans

    Cynovolans Not in my dimension.

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    I was at my school's library and didn't want to do my homework so I looked for a book that mentioned the Egyptian Labyrinth. I found one and noticed it didn't even considered that the stone structure found in Hawara was roof instead of a foundation. So I looked more into the Mataha expedition. I found a video that I think was made by the members of the expidition.

    Spoiler :


    From watching the video, they were vague with how they determined the labyrinth was still intact and it seems the expedition was funded by one guy who had a hunch. Looking around more on the internet, this expedition is mentioned on a lot of conspiracy sites claiming the Egyptian government will not allow the results to be published. My guess is their findings didn't really hold up to academic standards so no journal published it. (If they even tried to get it published)
     
  4. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    Finding a buried structure with an intact roof would be extremely unusual - what usually happens to stone structures is that their walls are 'borrowed' by others to use in other structures, with the result that only the foundations are left. Even when that's not the case, excavated buildings usually only have shattered tiles on the floor to show where the roof was - thanks, perhaps, to the weight of earth on top of them.
     
  5. Cynovolans

    Cynovolans Not in my dimension.

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    I get my hopes up too easy when I hear someone has found something cool. I've already put the book back, but the consensus did seem to be that the labyrinth was taken apart so the stone could be used elsewhere.
     
  6. daft

    daft The fargone

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    forget it
     
  7. daft

    daft The fargone

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    bye bye
     
  8. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    Well, the Cretan Labyrinth was mythically built to house a famous monster. Perhaps they don't want to awaken what's at the center of this one. Hmmm, time to start working on a script...
     
  9. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    The Mummy: Return to Egypt? Brendan Fraser needs something to keep him alive.
     
  10. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Of course. Personally I find it more interesting that by the time of Herodotus 'labyrinth' had already become synonomous with any kind of mazelike structure. I guess that'll teach me not to read Herodotus. ;)
     
  11. daft

    daft The fargone

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    non post
     
  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Well, if you must read conspiracy sites, you'll find all sorts of questions about things which probably have totally innocuous answers.
     
  13. daft

    daft The fargone

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    This time the bad guys are: The Egyptian Government Agents, bent on stopping anyone from attempting to make a major discovery (religion could have something to do with their motives) and a corrupt western Millionaire/Egyptologist-similar.

    A movie like this would do well in box office, and perhaps get real work of uncovering this incredible ancient structure finally started.
     
  14. daft

    daft The fargone

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    Skeptics never discover anything of note.
    Dig in and seek the answers for yourself(literally on the internet), don't believe in everything you're told by the "official versions".
    The rich and powerful out there aren't willing to let general public in on everything.
     
  15. daft

    daft The fargone

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    Read Strabo then.
     
  16. daft

    daft The fargone

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    erased
     
  17. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    If you're open-minded, please ignore things someone says, simply because they've said them?

    I'm more than willing to believe that powerful factions are deliberately trying to hoodwink the general populace, but given how that is going on right in front of our noses pretty much every day with varying levels of success, grand and elaborate conspiracy theories are generally the ones most likely to be wrong.
     
  18. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I formulated that a bit odd; I meant to say I haven't read Herodotus. Well, except some excerpts.

    That doesn't sound very open minded...
     
  19. r16

    r16 not deity

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    in a mood of reading on Naval stuff these days . Saw the hint in a book on the technical development of the Ironclads . Arturo Prat is the guy who commanded a warship and managed to board the enemy as the enemy was intentionally trying to ram . he has ships named after him , a province in Chile as it seems and the Wikipedia says:

    "Arturo Prat" is the most ubiquitous street name across Chile. There are 144 communes in Chile which have a street bearing his name...


    so up to almost 1880s that boarding could be a tactic that could have been tried . Corrects my own notion of 1850-60s .
     
  20. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    On the contrary, nothing would be known for certain if it weren't for sceptics, because it's only by doubting and rigorously testing claims that you can tell which ones are true.

    I would tend to assume that it would be in the interests of the wealthy and powerful to promote any verifiable amazing archaeological discoveries in their countries, as major sources of income, global interest, and tourism. It's certainly in the interests of academics and of academic publishers to publish positive remarkable results. If the Mataha expedition had verifiable results they would have been published in a high-ranking academic journal. The expedition's website claims to have published some results "in the scientific journal of the NRIAG in fall 2008", but the current NRIAG journal only began in 2012. They presumably refer to its now defunct predecessor Journal of Geophysics, but I'm not able to find any resources from that journal so I can't check this publication. The website goes on to state:

    And that's obviously rubbish, because as I say, if they had legitimate results they'd have no difficulty at all publishing them in other journals over which Hawass would have no control. The fact that they can only "publish" them on a purpose-built website indicates that no legitimate academic outlet regards them as publishable. And you can be certain that such outlets would want to publish results of this kind.
     

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