History Rewritten (Original Thread)

Zman88 · Feb 1, 2011

Alright, I'll redownload and see what happens. Just FYI, I'll post the latest crash log in case it's of any help. The last crash before this one had the same exception type/code 'cept thread 0 was a bunch of stuff about Direct X.

Spoiler :

EDIT: Reinstalling didn't fix it - I started a new standard-size map and it crashed in the first couple of turns after my warrior killed a hyena. It threw a different error type this time though:

Spoiler :

Sorry if this is all a bit of a P.I.T.A! I'm going to try order S.L tomorrow and see if that does anything.

Xyth · Feb 1, 2011

Ah! Unfortunately I recognize that first crash log all too well. It's an audio related crash and it only seems to occur (or be as bad) on certain Macs. I had a look earlier in the thread and sure enough, the 2 main people reporting that crash have the exact same iMac as you.

Without owning such an iMac myself I've never been able to fix it, though I believe it wasn't just HR that could cause it, some other mods could too. Even unmodded BTS has numerous audio bugs which Aspyr have refused to fix despite my reporting of them several times.

There is a workaround though, in ~/Documents/Civilization IV Beyond the Sword/CivilizationIV.ini find the line AudioEnable=1 and change it to AudioEnable=0. Not ideal obviously but the best I can offer at this stage I'm afraid

That second crash report is different however and seems to be texture related. It's possible that it's a byproduct of the audio problems but it could also be something I need to track down and fix. If you keep getting that crash (or any) after you've disabled the audio let me know and I'll see what I can find.

s.bernbaum · Feb 1, 2011

I get audio crashes in unmodded BTS. I have been able to minimize them by going to the audio screen of the BTS options window and turning off everything except the interface sounds. That way I still get the warning sounds when things happen but none of the voice, background, sound effects, etc. which seem to be the main culprits. I find this more convenient than entirely shutting off the sound using the .ini. OTOH, I am running Tiger on a PPS Mac not Leopard on an intel machine, but it is worth a try.

Zman88 · Feb 1, 2011

Okay, so I've tried turning off the sound (started with s.bernbaums method, then went into the .ini and turned it off completely) and it runs better, but it's still liable to crash after a few hundred turns, and larger maps still CTD after the loading screen. I haven't had anymore OpenAL errors, though.

Here are the latest crash logs:

Crash 1 - Playing Amorites, standard map, crashed after trying to open a diplo window:

Spoiler :

Crash 2 - standard map, Amorites (different game), crashed after ending my turn

Spoiler :

The first crash happens a fair bit, and from what you said before I'm thinking it could be a driver issue from Aspyrs end. Dunno bout the second one though.

Xyth · Feb 1, 2011

Those are both graphics related crashes. That could be to do with your system, but could also easily be a problem with a unit or such in the mod. Are these crashes repeatable - will they occur again in the same turn after reloading a save? If so, it's definitely something I need to fix.

However the CTD so soon on large maps is a sure sign that your Mac is not able to handle them for some reason :/

Zman88 · Feb 1, 2011

I just booted up my 'crash 2' (the crash 1 autosaves seem to have disappeared) game, and it crashed around roughly the same point (within 5 turns). The crash was kernel protection failure as opposed to just a generic crash this time though:

Spoiler :

Xyth · Feb 1, 2011

Please post that save game and I'll see if it crashes for me too. At the very least it will help me narrow down where the problem might be.

Zman88 · Feb 1, 2011

Here ya go

EDIT: As best I can tell, it's a problem with the diplo windows - every reboot I do after a crash is followed by a new leader popping up to say hello.

Xyth · Feb 1, 2011

Zman88 said:
Here ya go

EDIT: As best I can tell, it's a problem with the diplo windows - every reboot I do after a crash is followed by a new leader popping up to say hello.

That's very helpful information. I'll hopefully have some time to do some testing of the save later tonight.

Zman88 · Feb 2, 2011

I have a bit more information for you - I've been playing on the lowest possible settings and it hasn't crashed once, and I'm convinced it's the diplo windows that are the bugbear - an example that should be apparent in that save is that Willem van Orange will introduce himself, and if I can get past that it will crash again - if it doesn't, the leader of Swahilliland will come up offering open borders. Interestingly playing on the lowest settings blacks out the world map when the diplo window is open, maybe the problem is somewhere around there?

EDIT: Okay, so I bumped everything back up to high and turned 'Render Quality' down to low so it blacks out the world map, and it definitely seems to stop it crashing when the diplo windows open up. I did however get an 'st9_badalloc' memory crash after signing an OB agreement. I'll keep fiddling around until it's stable/not ugly and report back.

EDITEDIT: With Movie and Render quality on low, and detailed terrain turned off it seems to be running stable on otherwise the highest possible settings. Fingers crossed!

EDITEDITEDIT: Nope, it crashed again - another of those EXC_CRASH types. However, it's MUCH more stable, definitely at a playable level.

Pomphis · Feb 3, 2011

Thank you. It works. I needed some time to realize that WinXP uses two seperate paths to come to two seperate Mod folders too. After I moved it to the other folder everything is fine.

Xyth · Feb 4, 2011

Pomphis said:
Thank you. It works. I needed some time to realize that WinXP uses two seperate paths to come to two seperate Mod folders too. After I moved it to the other folder everything is fine.

Glad to hear it's working for you now! Please let me know if you encounter any other issues and I'll do my best to sort them out for you.

Zman88 said:
I have a bit more information for you - I've been playing on the lowest possible settings and it hasn't crashed once, and I'm convinced it's the diplo windows that are the bugbear - an example that should be apparent in that save is that Willem van Orange will introduce himself, and if I can get past that it will crash again - if it doesn't, the leader of Swahilliland will come up offering open borders. Interestingly playing on the lowest settings blacks out the world map when the diplo window is open, maybe the problem is somewhere around there?

EDIT: Okay, so I bumped everything back up to high and turned 'Render Quality' down to low so it blacks out the world map, and it definitely seems to stop it crashing when the diplo windows open up. I did however get an 'st9_badalloc' memory crash after signing an OB agreement. I'll keep fiddling around until it's stable/not ugly and report back.

EDITEDIT: With Movie and Render quality on low, and detailed terrain turned off it seems to be running stable on otherwise the highest possible settings. Fingers crossed!

EDITEDITEDIT: Nope, it crashed again - another of those EXC_CRASH types. However, it's MUCH more stable, definitely at a playable level.

I've tested your save game and I was unable to reproduce a crash. From what you describe it does sound like the issue is a performance one. The leader art, unlike unit art and such are loaded on demand rather than sitting in memory all the time once loaded. The leaders also have much higher poly counts and larger textures meaning they can be sudden spike in memory usage. And of course the diplomacy screen also triggers a change in music which probably makes the audio issues you are having worse.

Sorry I couldn't be more help, it's bizarre that your particular model of iMac has
so many issues. I'm glad to hear that you've got the mod running more stable and I hope you are still able to enjoy it. Let me know if you have any further issues and I'll do my best to help.

Pomphis · Feb 6, 2011

Xyth said:
Please let me know if you encounter any other issues and I'll do my best to sort them out for you.

Just one, but that´s a feature: I can no longer build The Pyramids, have Universal Suffrage and Slavery, and rush production both ways depending on the local situation. I enjoy it a lot. Just one question: some of the numbers and symbols on the lower right side list of other civs aren´t obvious to me. Is there an explanation somewhere ?

Howard Mahler · Feb 6, 2011

Although it took me a while, I have now completed my comments on the new Civics, in a separate thread in the same subforum.

Xyth · Feb 6, 2011

Just one question: some of the numbers and symbols on the lower right side list of other civs aren´t obvious to me. Is there an explanation somewhere?

They're provided by the BUG mod (incorporated into HR), which adds a lot of useful functionality and information to the UI. I haven't seen such a list anywhere before but if you go into the BUG options screen (click the green BUG button near the top left corner of screen) and to the Scoreboard tab there are a bunch of options here to customize how and what is displayed. In particular if you mouse over the Column Order text frame the tooltip will list what all the letters mean (though sadly not what their corresponding graphic is). Hope that helps a little.

s.bernbaum · Feb 7, 2011

Somewhat off topic, however, what version of BUG is in HR? I run BUG 4.2 in my regular BTS but don't have the green button.

Xyth · Feb 7, 2011

s.bernbaum said:
Somewhat off topic, however, what version of BUG is in HR? I run BUG 4.2 in my regular BTS but don't have the green button.

BUG 4.4. The button was a red and white rocket in earlier versions.

s.bernbaum · Feb 7, 2011

Does BUG 4.4 work problem free on a Mac? I stuck with 4.2 when 4.3 turned out to have some Mac specific problems.

AlanH · Feb 7, 2011

There was only one Mac-specific issue as far as I know with BUG 4.4. It was a Python v2.4 issue (Mac Civ4 still comes with Python 2,.3). It's fixed by deleting a single line of code in one file. See this post for the gory details.

s.bernbaum · Feb 7, 2011

Thanks Alan. I'll have a look.

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